Do I really need a PI?

stewart73

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Had a crappy hunt today so allow me to vent. :lol:

I bought a Whites DF a while back thinking that it would be the perfect complement to my Excal...the DF would hoover up all the goods the Excal couldn't reach and I would also use it on beaches relatively free of trash. With the DF I wouldn't miss anything.

While in theory I suppose this is true, I'm starting to wonder if, practically, I really need this machine. I have had some success with the DF this past year, finding deep gold and platinum, but whether these were targets the Excal couldn't have reached I'm not sure. No doubt the DF is deeper but I just wonder if the time/target (and trash) ratio is worth it in my particular detecting situations.

Contrary to what I perhaps originally thought, I don't really have too many beaches that are totally hunted out (ie. all that's left is too deep for the Excal) OR beaches that aren't very trashy. By the time I get round to hitting the 4 or 5 beaches I rotate another year has passed and summer replenishing starts (and they're all trashy beaches). I'm starting to think that the DF really is only a tool for VERY specific situations, none of which I find myself in very often. So is it worth it to keep it in the closet for those one or two times a year where it might make sense to use it over the Excal or not?

And when you take into account it's not the most fun machine in the world to use (flappy, floaty coil, harder to pinpoint than Excal) I just don't know if I want to keep it. Yes there might be situations where it's 'better' than the Excal but not really in my situation (yet anyway).

As an example, I have pulled over 40 rings in 2 hunts at this one location (one of the hunts just earlier this week). I also pulled hundreds of coins over those two hunts. I figured maybe the gold and platinum was down deep so I hit the same area (in the same conditions) today with the DF. There were, as expected, targets on every swing but I ended up with ZERO coins and ZERO rings (granted, I only hunted 2 hours). With the Excal I probably would have had 10 rings and 50 coins in that same time. What went wrong? I think 3 things. Firstly the targets tended to be deeper so of course they take more time and effort to retrieve. Secondly, I find the DF much harder to pinpoint with so I often end up digging huge holes "chasing" the target around. And thirdly, of course there's the iron that has to be dug that I wouldn't be digging with the Excal. With the Excal it takes me anywhere between 15 seconds and a minute to retrieve a target....with the DF it was taking up to 5 minutes and I gave up on several holes. Is this simply my lack of experience with the machine? I don't think I took less than 5 scoops to retrieve any of the very few targets I managed to pull up.

I dunno...I know that if I pounded that area for weeks on end with the DF I would find gold that the Excal wouldn't...but would that time be worth it when I could be hunting with the Excal and finding way more? Or was it not time for the DF yet (ie. this place has so many targets I need to pound it with the Excal a lot more before bringing in the DF?) I just can't believe the difference in my finds and the difference in how much I enjoy hunting with the Excal and the DF. The DF is a royal pain in the butt (except of course when you find gold :lol:) and the effort to reward ratio is nowhere near the Excal (for me). More often than not I just end up tired and frustrated (and find much less) with the DF. To be honest I was actually relieved when I finally snapped my scoop handle today so I could go home...first time in a year and-a-half that's happened! :D

Here's a few days ago with the Excal:

P1060343_zps7cflyjcv.jpg


And here's my take today with the DF, same spot, same conditions (yes it was working correctly!):

P1060354_zps54tgz7pp.jpg



What do you guys think? Ditch the DF? Learn how to use it more proficiently? Keep in the closet for those few times it makes sense to use it? Stop whining? :lol:
 
Pretty much what I would expect and my experience is about the same with the ATX/CTX combo. Not to berate the Dual Field OR the ATX, but I just don't want to take the time to learn the machine and that probably would make a huge difference with the results. There are just to many PI guys out there that would have different results with either machine, because they use them regularly....yeah, they dig more iron than a "good" VLF machine/hunter would but they also dig more good stuff then the average or new PI guy will......we just don't know the machine well enough.
IF both of us could just walk away from the VLF's and use the PI exclusively for a solid month, I think the good find count would increase because we would know the machines better, but we would still have a bigger trash pile then with a good VLF.

Cliff
 
Don't need a PI where you are. I know someone using a V3i where you are and he doesn't even water hunt:shock: I've owned two dualfields and need another one. My excal and CTX can't reach targets in this sand. Man if you had a VDI machine and passed over the silver some days. You'd probably blind us with platinum:lol:
 
Pretty much what I would expect and my experience is about the same with the ATX/CTX combo. Not to berate the Dual Field OR the ATX, but I just don't want to take the time to learn the machine and that probably would make a huge difference with the results. There are just to many PI guys out there that would have different results with either machine, because they use them regularly....yeah, they dig more iron than a "good" VLF machine/hunter would but they also dig more good stuff then the average or new PI guy will......we just don't know the machine well enough.
IF both of us could just walk away from the VLF's and use the PI exclusively for a solid month, I think the good find count would increase because we would know the machines better, but we would still have a bigger trash pile then with a good VLF.

Cliff

Thanks, this makes sense to me...if the Excal didn't always produce so well like it does here I might dedicate more time to learning the DF a bit more. Or there may come a day in the future when the beaches I frequent really do become 'hunted out' and a PI might make more sense.
 
I have 2 DF and 1 tdi. I had a sov GT before and couldn't sell it fast enough.
But most locations I hunt are hunted heavily by others so my only options are the DF and TDI.
Is there a roped off section for swimming? Main spot where everyone swims? Bay shaped beach where targets don't move around too much but sink quickly in tough 'clay' mud? These are spots where the DF will shine.
 
Stewart, I have both of those detectors and a similar scoop as well- I just don't find piles of treasure like you do! :lol: Funny but I have been thinking, "do I really need the Excal anymore?" :?:
I agree that the floating, big, floppy, trash-loving coil is annoying at times but I guess I've gotten use to it, sort of- I'm close to closing a deal on the older PI PRO with its non-floating, smaller, less floppy, trash-loving coil. :D
Like yourself, I think that the depth on the two detectors is similar with the Dual Field having a slight edge but, to me, the edge is significant. I know that I can go behind most hunters (and we have a lot here, unlike Japan) and find targets that they missed.
I think the tipping point for me is the black sand issue. We have a few beaches where black sand makes using the Excal difficult to impossible. Even the Dual Field PI is challenged on some of those beaches but is still manageable. I also think that the Dual Field is a little more durable and if I have problems (had some minor ones) White's customer service is pretty responsive. :yes:
Still, every hunter's situation is different and you are probably right about yours. It's a good problem to have- like having 2 good quarterbacks on your team! HH!
 
2014 (- Sand Shark): 10 Gold, 1 Platinum, and David Yurman silver/diamond ring. (2 Were from dry sand w/ non-water unit).

2015 (+Sand Shark): 6 Gold, 1 Platinum. In 4 months of hunting. Except for 1 gold with the CZ the rest belong to the SS.

Of course my goals and focus are different this year. Last year, I wanted to kill the clad and I did. This year I want to double my gold finds from last year so I'm hunting the water more. Out of the 6 gold/platinum finds I don't think the CZ would've gotten half of those.
 
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Heheh....you're right. :lol::lol:


Stewart.... I started beach hunting with a PI.. our beaches are probably cleaner than yours because many use pulse machines here to get the stuff the Excals and other disc type water machines don't even hear and they do miss quite a bit.

I have told this story to a few of my hunting friends that I will tell you.. I went to a beach and watched a a guy swinging an Excal and decided to hunt behind him with my PI PRO, at the end of his hunt he came over to me to show me the silver coins and rings he had found and wanted to know what I found which was coins, silver and 3 gold rings... he didn't say much... I saw him again a day or so later with the same results... I found the gold and he found the high tones... I saw him a month later sporting a pulse machine.

They do have a learning curve and you can discriminate some trash by ear especially iron and can tops... I do not dig anything that sounds off outside the small inner coil most likely the targets are trash... you can be selective with a pulse machine.
 
I don't know. I just bought one and am trying to learn how to use it. There are better machines out there now...but it goes deep. For the money its a bargin. hh gl -Joe



Had a crappy hunt today so allow me to vent. :lol:

I bought a Whites DF a while back thinking that it would be the perfect complement to my Excal...the DF would hoover up all the goods the Excal couldn't reach and I would also use it on beaches relatively free of trash. With the DF I wouldn't miss anything.

While in theory I suppose this is true, I'm starting to wonder if, practically, I really need this machine. I have had some success with the DF this past year, finding deep gold and platinum, but whether these were targets the Excal couldn't have reached I'm not sure. No doubt the DF is deeper but I just wonder if the time/target (and trash) ratio is worth it in my particular detecting situations.

Contrary to what I perhaps originally thought, I don't really have too many beaches that are totally hunted out (ie. all that's left is too deep for the Excal) OR beaches that aren't very trashy. By the time I get round to hitting the 4 or 5 beaches I rotate another year has passed and summer replenishing starts (and they're all trashy beaches). I'm starting to think that the DF really is only a tool for VERY specific situations, none of which I find myself in very often. So is it worth it to keep it in the closet for those one or two times a year where it might make sense to use it over the Excal or not?

And when you take into account it's not the most fun machine in the world to use (flappy, floaty coil, harder to pinpoint than Excal) I just don't know if I want to keep it. Yes there might be situations where it's 'better' than the Excal but not really in my situation (yet anyway).

As an example, I have pulled over 40 rings in 2 hunts at this one location (one of the hunts just earlier this week). I also pulled hundreds of coins over those two hunts. I figured maybe the gold and platinum was down deep so I hit the same area (in the same conditions) today with the DF. There were, as expected, targets on every swing but I ended up with ZERO coins and ZERO rings (granted, I only hunted 2 hours). With the Excal I probably would have had 10 rings and 50 coins in that same time. What went wrong? I think 3 things. Firstly the targets tended to be deeper so of course they take more time and effort to retrieve. Secondly, I find the DF much harder to pinpoint with so I often end up digging huge holes "chasing" the target around. And thirdly, of course there's the iron that has to be dug that I wouldn't be digging with the Excal. With the Excal it takes me anywhere between 15 seconds and a minute to retrieve a target....with the DF it was taking up to 5 minutes and I gave up on several holes. Is this simply my lack of experience with the machine? I don't think I took less than 5 scoops to retrieve any of the very few targets I managed to pull up.

I dunno...I know that if I pounded that area for weeks on end with the DF I would find gold that the Excal wouldn't...but would that time be worth it when I could be hunting with the Excal and finding way more? Or was it not time for the DF yet (ie. this place has so many targets I need to pound it with the Excal a lot more before bringing in the DF?) I just can't believe the difference in my finds and the difference in how much I enjoy hunting with the Excal and the DF. The DF is a royal pain in the butt (except of course when you find gold :lol:) and the effort to reward ratio is nowhere near the Excal (for me). More often than not I just end up tired and frustrated (and find much less) with the DF. To be honest I was actually relieved when I finally snapped my scoop handle today so I could go home...first time in a year and-a-half that's happened! :D

Here's a few days ago with the Excal:

P1060343_zps7cflyjcv.jpg


And here's my take today with the DF, same spot, same conditions (yes it was working correctly!):

P1060354_zps54tgz7pp.jpg



What do you guys think? Ditch the DF? Learn how to use it more proficiently? Keep in the closet for those few times it makes sense to use it? Stop whining? :lol:
 
The sand shark is a work horse. It finds all and i have the pickup bed full of proof. Lol
 
So, nobody else asked, so I will...

Did the handle really snap or did you wrap it around a piling??!!? ;)

Believe me, I know that frustrated feeling my friend! :cool:
 
A few micro cracks at the fulcrum led to water intrusion and wood rot. With your totals I would seriously think about upgrading to a CF handle from Chuck.

The PI vs VLF thing...if your young, healthy and enjoy the hunt then I'd say put that DF to task. Lots of low hanging fruit by your pictures so you can choose to disc out the iron...for now. That is until a motivated, experienced PI hunter shows up on your beach:D
 
Good honest question there, opportunity time vs depth. I think you're beaches are similar in trashiness to mine, i get about the same result if i take my sea hunter 2 hunting. Some spots i hit you have to go really slow, there will be three to four nulls on my excal per swing, you'd be nuts to hit a spot like that with a pi...
Another thing we both seem to have is that we can rotate between many beaches and get the goods where available. If i only had one beach to hunt i might take the pi out of the closet more often to gain some depth, but with the variety of beaches to hit i don't think it's worthwhile...
 
I had a place that had a blow out a few weeks ago, well the sand that blew out of the hole carried most of the goodies with it. So lateral to the blow out the sand was filled with gold and the Excalibur killed it. But now lies the problem, fresh sand has rolled in over this area and the gold is out of reach. In this case I think the DF might just find a few that are there, how often does this situation happen and you know about it? Now the other issue, there is another beach I have found that just got blown out, and is perfect for the excal...I can't do both...but what if I did not know about this the DF would be right there hammering......My opinion, I think the use of the DF is very limited for me, but you just never know when you may need it..so I still have mine for those times. And with some fine tuning of my DF skills there will be a time the excal stays home.
 
In hind sight, it seems like u find 30-40 good targets every outing. So missing 2-3 that u may have found with the PI means you are still nabbing 90-95% of the good stuff. Dang, as long as u have a backup machine, i think its time to put the PI in the classifieds.:cool:
 
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