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  #1  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:27 PM
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Default Larger diamonds trace-able ?

Hey gang, Not sure if this has come up before, but there has been the technology, for some years now, to micro-laser engrave diamonds :

https://www.ritani.com/blog/diamond-...g-quick-guide/

You need super high magnification (microscope?) to read it. So for example, some insurance companies require this if you want to insure an expensive ring/stone. The diamond could be traced by a serial # or whatever.

If any of y'all are finding larger diamonds, do you ever take them to a jeweler to deduce if there's such a # or ID ? Ie.: in the same way we md'rs sometimes like to reunite class rings, for instance.

Or perhaps if you went to try to sell a nice diamond ring, and if someone ever DID find an ID on the buying end: Wouldn't that make you guilty now of a crime ? Ie.: possession of someone else's property. That would fall afoul of lost & found laws which every state has, after all.

I'm mostly a land hunter. So sad to say I've never found a diamond over ~1/3 carat.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:34 PM
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And re.: the "crime" part of my question: Does anyone here recall the story of the young couple in some small town in Oregon years ago. The gal eyeballed a diamond ring in a shopping center parking lot. They just assumed it was costume jewelry or cubic zirconia . Because the stone was just seeoo big.

A few days later, the gal took a closer look at the ring, and saw that it was stamped for gold or plat or whatever . So their curiosity got the better of them. They decided to take it to a jeweler to see if the stone was real. And they also asked "what's it worth, if so ?"

The jeweler said the gemologist would be in later that week. So for them to leave it there, and he'd call them back when the gemologist had a chance to check it out.

Long story short: It got ID'd and had been reported as "lost/stolen" . The person who'd lost it had reported it to the police and insurance. An all-points BOL had been issued to various pawn shops, jewelers, etc... in the state, who might bump into it.

So the police set up a sting. They called the couple and said to come back to the store to get the ring . Ie.: "Your appraisal is ready". When the young couple came back to the jewelry store, the police cuffed them. The couple tried to explain ".... but we only found it. We didn't steal it" .... they were still not out of hot water.

Does anyone remember that story ? Technically speaking ... how are we md'rs any different then ?

Last edited by Tom_in_CA; 01-12-2018 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Hey gang, Not sure if this has come up before, but there has been the technology, for some years now, to micro-laser engrave diamonds :

https://www.ritani.com/blog/diamond-...g-quick-guide/

You need super high magnification (microscope?) to read it. So for example, some insurance companies require this if you want to insure an expensive ring/stone. The diamond could be traced by a serial # or whatever.

If any of y'all are finding larger diamonds, do you ever take them to a jeweler to deduce if there's such a # or ID ? Ie.: in the same way we md'rs sometimes like to reunite class rings, for instance.

Or perhaps if you went to try to sell a nice diamond ring, and if someone ever DID find an ID on the buying end: Wouldn't that make you guilty now of a crime ? Ie.: possession of someone else's property. That would fall afoul of lost & found laws which every state has, after all.

I'm mostly a land hunter. So sad to say I've never found a diamond over ~1/3 carat.
That was interesting. I had no idea you could engrave something on a diamond. Thanks for posting.

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Old 01-12-2018, 09:38 PM
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It's not uncommon for large quality diamonds to pass through many different hands in its lifetime. I assume they reported it as stolen.

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Old 01-12-2018, 09:51 PM
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Hi Tom. My wife has a diamond that it's a little over 3 k. It does have a number engraved under the stone. You can not see it. They are done at a local jeweler in our town. It is done by Lazer. It cost me $250.00 to have it done and registered. You do got a picture of the ring and bottom of the stone where the number is. You do need a microscope to see the number. We both had to look at it to confirm the number.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:11 PM
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I found a hearts on fire diamond ring and the main stone was laser marked. My jeweler girl found the markings and read it off while I wrote it down.
I contacted HOF and asked about it and it was a code that gave the diamonds pedigree which the lady then gave me. It was not linked to the person who originally bought it.
I ain't worried about it, the next jeweler can polish the number right back off.

I sold it to a nice young couple who are married now, and still thank me for setting them up with a beautiful engagement ring for cheap that was way, way out of their league.


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  #7  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve View post
.... I assume they reported it as stolen.
You're referring to the couple in the story of post # 2 ? Consider that when someone looses a ring, they don't always know when/where it went missing.

In the particular case of post #2
: The lady who lost the ring was an affluent business lady. Driving across the state over several days on business. To see various clients for business meetings. One night in her hotel room, she realized "oh no , where's my ring ??" Her mind raced: "Did I leave it on the nightstand of the hotel I stayed at the previous night ?" "Was it palmed when I was shaking hands at the business meeting ?" . "Did I leave it on the sink when I was washing my hands at the women's restroom at the lunch meeting I had ?" She simply had no idea.

But put yourself in her shoes: For example, she'd left it on the nightstand of the hotel of the previous night, and if the maid who cleaned the room simply kept it, then .... in her mind's eyes, the maid stole it. Eh ?

In any case: When it came time to report it to her insurance, she had no idea of "lost or stolen". So the police report (required to make an insurance claim) simply said "lost/stolen".

SO TOO when we find stuff on the beach, we all assume that the person who lost it ... KNOWS they "lost it". But this isn't always the case. For all they know it was stolen from their home (they can't recall the last time they had it on).

Hence police reports can use the word "stolen" in their dossier .
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:36 PM
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I know it is done but I have never found one yet. I have found a few half karat, a .75 karat and a 1.1 karat with no markings.

I tried to return the 1.1 karat main diamond ring. I had it on Fox 2 news Detroit and in the Detroit Free Press with no replies. No markings on it.

I guess if I ever find one I will decide at that point what to do with it. I do know the whereabouts of a very expensive ring. Who knows if it is marked or if it will ever be found.

Interesting story you posted. The police would have to prove that you intended to sell it instead of giving it back. If the jeweler would have told them the stone was engraved then they would have to had made a decision to sell it and not care. However knowing how some officers work and some courts, even possessing it could get you railroaded.

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  #9  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:50 PM
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I've got 1. .50ct hearts and arrows perfect diamond. It was lost by a tourist from another country and no idea when.
I'm accepting offers
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:58 PM
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I've read some newer ones are laser etched.

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  #11  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve View post
I've got 1. .50ct hearts and arrows perfect diamond. It was lost by a tourist from another country and no idea when.
I'm accepting offers
Daummmmmm! I'm gonna have to start saving!

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Old 01-12-2018, 11:18 PM
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Yup, the Tiffany solitaire I found was laser etched....

I bought a 60x microscope style loupe and you can read the numbers.
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:36 PM
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I am guessing that everyone that can afford a diamond worthy of laser etching reported it stolen if lost. they then got insurance money. we are the good guys for finding it and they should get nailed for insurance fraud. not always the case.

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Old 01-13-2018, 01:01 AM
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I found a diamond solitaire in 2016 with an EGL certification number engraved on the girdle. The laser etched numbers are much smaller than the period at the end of this sentence and I could barely make them out with my 40X jeweler's loupe.
I believe that the EGL is now defunct and no one seemed concerned that it was engraved- not any jewelers, not the GIA (who re-certified and engraved their own number on it), not the diamond dealer who offered me a tempting sum for it.
I could be wrong but I think these etched numbers are used primarily for proof of certification and not for identification. Diamonds get bought and sold all the time and change hands often.

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Old 01-13-2018, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NCtoad View post
That was interesting. I had no idea you could engrave something on a diamond. Thanks for posting.
thanx for chiming in NC-toad.

Originally Posted by dirtykneese View post
Hi Tom. My wife has a diamond that it's a little over 3 k. It does have a number engraved under the stone. You can not see it. They are done at a local jeweler in our town. It is done by Lazer. It cost me $250.00 to have it done and registered. You do got a picture of the ring and bottom of the stone where the number is. You do need a microscope to see the number. We both had to look at it to confirm the number....
3 k ? awesome ! My wife's is a tad over 1 k. And the jeweler who sold it to us said that there's an ID from the mine it came from . I've never studied it under a microscope to see. It would only be a serial # linking it back to a mine where it was dug & cut at. I *suppose* that ... from there ... it could be linked to the end buyer . Ie.: the distributor or end jeweler. And from there, it could be linked to the end buyer (my wife and I). Whether or not that would actually ever happen, is up-for-debate. But .... just sayin' ... it's possible.

Originally Posted by Irons View post
.... It was not linked to the person who originally bought it. ....
Excellent story and great pix Irons !

Originally Posted by ScubaDetector View post
...I had it on Fox 2 news Detroit and in the Detroit Free Press ....
True to your fashion . Your md'ing stories and finds are legend

Originally Posted by ScubaDetector View post
... The police would have to prove that you intended to sell it instead of giving it back. If the jeweler would have told them the stone was engraved then they would have to had made a decision to sell it and not care....
As I recall the story: In this case, it wasn't a case of laser inscribed. This was 20 or 25+ yrs. ago. And the knowledge of "B.O.L." came via the fact that the gemologist had received a fax a week or so earlier (anyone here old enough to remember faxes ?). The fax had been sent out to various smelters, pawn shops, jewelers, etc.... Anyone who might be on the receiving end of this. Thus it was just a grainy black & white fax photo. But it was enough that the gemologist put 2+2 together, when he subsequently saw it on a routine business visit on his route.

Originally Posted by metaladdict View post
I've read some newer ones are laser etched.
Yes: My wife's is etched. But ... just for where it was mined/cut. Theoretically could be "traced" from there to the current onwer (my wife). But ... not too likely, haha.


Originally Posted by DaviDs View post
Yup, the Tiffany solitaire I found was laser etched....

I bought a 60x microscope style loupe and you can read the numbers.
Ok. So did you go through the laborious process of tracing the stone, to the end buyers (and/or subsequent buyers) ? Or should we forumites alert the proper authorities ? So that the proper legal avenues can commence ? haha

Originally Posted by schmitzplumbing View post
I am guessing that everyone that can afford a diamond worthy of laser etching reported it stolen if lost. they then got insurance money. we are the good guys for finding it and they should get nailed for insurance fraud. not always the case.
Correct. IF THEY KEPT THE RING *AND* the insurance settlement. But ... isn't that between them, the police, and the insurance Co ? Not your business. Your only business is to obey lost & found laws and turn it in. Eh ?

Originally Posted by Compass View post
..... I could be wrong but I think these etched numbers are used primarily for proof of certification and not for identification....
Yes. Quite possible. But can't the # be discerned back to buyers/sellers ? Just being the devil's advocate, and saying: "What if?" haha
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:48 AM
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My best ring with over 2 carrots of diamonds and the main stone being a solid 1 carrot has a number but like compass said no one that looked at it even cared it had a serial number engraved the appraiser that i had look at it showed it to me under a microscope and it was clear as day but you would never know that it was there unless you had the microscope

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  #17  
Old 01-13-2018, 08:43 AM
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Just one more thing to worry about! I doubt anyone of us would get in trouble though..We generally have pics to prove where we found a ring and what we were doing at the time...Still, it would be a huge bummer to find a big Diamond ring, sell it, and then have it come back on us in the Future as selling a reported 'Hot' ring!

Big fat plain Gold uninscribed bands! 4gr or heavier! All day long! Thats the easy money No Worries ticket!

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Old 01-13-2018, 09:28 AM
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I got a GIA number from an ebay listing and entered it into a search "app". Here is the information it returned:
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=7233644739
It only lists the qualities of the diamond- not the person having it certified. I suppose law enforcement can access information on who had the stone certified but it may be more difficult to track the subsequent owners afterwards.
I do like finding a chunky gold ring once in a while but give me a BIG and REAL diamond any day!

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  #19  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:09 PM
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This topic has been debated before and is really no different than n engraved class ring. In Georgia there is a theft of lost or misplaced property law. It requires making an effort to reunite with the owner, or simply turn it in. Many things turned in go to the auction in the end.

With that said Sears sold engraved diamonds years ago, with a registry. I moonlighted there.

a friend jeweler who worked at a pawn shop would buy loose diamonds , some would have a number. They came from a refinery or dealer who bought estates or from exchanges.

Unless the number has a data base to check available or someone knows how to get it or even which data base..tall task.

For insurances purposes claims , ok if it gets you paid, fine.

If a thief is caught promptly it might be handy.

Who wants false claimers " it's mine to deal with"?

Who wants a case of whatever the language of the statute made accusing them of a crime?

Prosecution is up to the courts and some say so with the victim.

Posting I notice many obscure the date or initials, is that to be considered evasive if sold for scrap then and it is identified? Our city requires scrapdealers pawn shops and Jewelers supposed to turn in a card to the law on receipt of such items. Or they get fined and shut down.

I still can't figure out wearing jewelry out in the ocean or a lake swimming. I know of forgetful accident incidents.

The old saying. " Life is not spelled f-a-i-r".

This opinion \facts are based on 28 yrs police work , including theft and pawn divisions and 11 years defense investigator to diminish the amounts of appeals by finding witnesses, irregularies, inconsistentsies etc........to make it The Best Nation in the world ....

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  #20  
Old 01-14-2018, 03:09 PM
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I have read an article about the engraving that is being done on some diamonds and it was done to show that it was not what was called a blood Diamond. It was to prevent diamonds being stole by those handling the and then putting then out on the market.

I had not heard that the serial numbers could be traced to an individual buyer.

Since i have never found anything over .75 carat i am not too worried about getting in trouble for finding them.
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