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Old 12-07-2017, 05:12 AM
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Default Asking for permission from local council to metal detect at historical sites?

I recently spoke to a lady on the train about metal detecting (as I was on my way to a hunt), and she told me her husband once asked the employees at an old homestead, if he could detect at the homestead, to which they said 'no' (simple answer, right?). However, the homestead is owned by the local government, so the employees don't really have much control over the property

There are quite a few old historical sites in my council which I would like to detect, and I know I can't just walk onto the site and start detecting (they'll probably say no, like above). So, I figured, maybe I could ask for permission from the council to detect at these sites, with the condition that they may display any of my finds from these sites in their local museum (sounds fair to me, I get the joy of digging up artefacts, and they get to preserve the artefacts in their museum).

Now, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to ask (I mean, I've got nothing to lose, but still, I don't want to create too much attention on the hobby), and I have no idea how to write/formulate such an email. I would appreciate some of your ideas/tips/suggestion, thanks

Btw, I would like to add that in the mid 1990's, it was suggested in a council meeting to implement a law that would prohibit metal detecting at historical sites. I couldn't find if a law was actually created, but given that they considered making one, suggests that perhaps people have already hunted some of these sites. Then again, I'm not sure how the metal detectors from the 1990's compare to today's detectors.

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Old 12-07-2017, 05:54 AM
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Seems like a good approach. If theyíre truly about the history then having someone expose the relics should seem like a service. Itís sad that most people, that Iíve approached for permission, have had the mentality of, I want it for myself If I ever decide to dig it up. Which they wont

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Old 12-07-2017, 07:22 AM
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You say that the sites are government owned. Right ? And then in your last paragraph, you seem to say that there's no law that says "no md'ing". Right ? Then are these lived-in homes ? Or just empty buildings of some sort ?

If they're lived-in-homes, then sure, you should get permission. But if they're not lived-in type homes, and they're public , and there's no "no md'ing rule", then ....
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
You say that the sites are government owned. Right ? And then in your last paragraph, you seem to say that there's no law that says "no md'ing". Right ? Then are these lived-in homes ? Or just empty buildings of some sort ?

If they're lived-in-homes, then sure, you should get permission. But if they're not lived-in type homes, and they're public , and there's no "no md'ing rule", then ....
Empty buildings, they're fenced off so you can't just walk onto the property and and for some, you have to pay entry (they're basically tourist attractions).

Edit: They are also protected under some sort of heritage act so you're not allowed to remove artefacts without consent

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Detectors: CTX 3030, X-Terra70, Pro-Find 25
2018 totals: $1066.57AUD (377x$2, 208x$1, 55x50c, 173x20c, 225x10c, 272x5c, 180x2c, 277x1c) and 102 foreign, collectable or older Australian/English (pre-decimal) coins.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:14 AM
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Thats a sticky wicket there XT...something to think about and plan and find the right person to give you the Go would be a challenge with little hope of success...Why do you feel compelled to bother busy beaurucrats with this complicated decision?...

Just do it! If captured, say you cant read good on account of the deplorable school system! Act like a Booboo, Probably just get told to 'bugger off' or whatever they say in the land of Oz...? Or else bow up and tell some nosy nelly your boss man sent you out here looking for the Pintle Pin that got slung off the Bushhog? Or the curbstop key? Or you are the district King Brown abatement specialist, and we have a tagged one pinging in here abouts...Or any old thing like that?

I dont know why you would want to hunt and offer to give up relics anyway?..You live in Australia! A place founded by Penal Colony Criminals! Wheres your appreciation of your heritage! Besides, you should be spending your time out there looking for the OTHER 'Hand Of God' nugget! Or knocking down clad and s'more totter jewelry!

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  #6  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mud-puppy View post
...Just do it! ....
Mud-puppy, didn't your dad loose his boyscout ring when he was a kid there ? It's your duty to go look for it now. Heck: Run a CL "lost" ad lamenting a lost ring at the location. Print out the ad, and show to any nosy-parkers.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mud-puppy View post
Thats a sticky wicket there XT...something to think about and plan and find the right person to give you the Go would be a challenge with little hope of success...Why do you feel compelled to bother busy beaurucrats with this complicated decision?...

Just do it! If captured, say you cant read good on account of the deplorable school system! Act like a Booboo, Probably just get told to 'bugger off' or whatever they say in the land of Oz...? Or else bow up and tell some nosy nelly your boss man sent you out here looking for the Pintle Pin that got slung off the Bushhog? Or the curbstop key? Or you are the district King Brown abatement specialist, and we have a tagged one pinging in here abouts...Or any old thing like that?

I dont know why you would want to hunt and offer to give up relics anyway?..You live in Australia! A place founded by Penal Colony Criminals! Wheres your appreciation of your heritage! Besides, you should be spending your time out there looking for the OTHER 'Hand Of God' nugget! Or knocking down clad and s'more totter jewelry!
Buy a invisibility cloak: sometimes called high-vis tabard , people will think you're a council worker. (personally, I wouldn't dig a heritage sight unless had a face-to face meeting and written consent).


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Old 12-07-2017, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by X-Terra70 View post
Empty buildings, they're fenced off so you can't just walk onto the property and and for some, you have to pay entry (they're basically tourist attractions).

Edit: They are also protected under some sort of heritage act so you're not allowed to remove artefacts without consent

As for the "heritage act", another phrase for laws like this is "cultural heritage". And they exist about anywhere you step foot. Probably at every single park on any level (city, county, state, etc...) in some form or fashion. Yet as you've probably noticed, there's no shortage of md'rs who find old coins at parks and beaches, etc....

If the spot is an obvious historic sensitive monument, then: yes, I would not throw caution to the wind. But on the other hand, if such boiler plate verbiage is to be taken literally, then you can probably talk yourself out of ever md'ing on any public land, anywhere.

As for the "fence", that's a different story. You're talking about a true "fence", and not just some picket fence for decorative exterior? And no time when the ground are open for the public to walk around ? Then yes, you got a problem to overcome.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by X-Terra70 View post
Empty buildings, they're fenced off so you can't just walk onto the property and and for some, you have to pay entry (they're basically tourist attractions).

Edit: They are also protected under some sort of heritage act so you're not allowed to remove artefacts without consent

If they are fenced off they don't want you in there... I have hunted historical sites but I asked permission to do so and was granted that permission.

Read #4 in the first post in this thread about Australian Metal Detecting Guidelines.

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com...pic.php?id=319

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Old 12-07-2017, 05:26 PM
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Thanks for everyones' replies, and for that link Cfmct. Tom, those fences are proper fences, 7ft high and with barbed wire on top, so not decorative. Only way to get in, is either to pay entry and then hope you don't get kicked out, or to ask for permission to hunt the properties. And I think by offering to donate significant finds to the council's museum, they would more likely say yes (as they'll also benefit from me hunting the property)

So, any ideas on what I should/shouldn't include in the email (of course I won't say I'll be digging up their property!)

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Detectors: CTX 3030, X-Terra70, Pro-Find 25
2018 totals: $1066.57AUD (377x$2, 208x$1, 55x50c, 173x20c, 225x10c, 272x5c, 180x2c, 277x1c) and 102 foreign, collectable or older Australian/English (pre-decimal) coins.
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2017, 01:07 AM
jimhenry jimhenry is offline
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Default Asking for permission at historical sites

Phillip,
Just my 2 cents, but I think it might be better to ask in person at a council meeting (or whatever they call them) rather than send an email. That way they could size you up, see you are an upstanding citizen, etc.
I am sort of, kind of, working on something similar. Part of my town's comprehensive plan is to compile and vet an inventory of historic sites within the town, but that requires volunteer labor, the only kind they can afford. So, I have met with the town council and stepped up to volunteer. Now first, these sites are all privately owned so it isn't the town that can give me permission, but in the course of going out to the sites, confirming they are historic, taking photos, etc., I figure I am bound to engage many of the owners in conversation and hope that will lead to some permissions. The town would also like me to video interview some of the long time residents about their recollections of life in the town going way back. I think that might also lead to some more permissions but should definitely at least provide me some more leads. My approach is indirect but I think is also the path of least resistance. Anyway I am just starting this so no idea how successful it will be but I thought I'd share it in case you find it helpful.
Jim





Originally Posted by X-Terra70 View post
I recently spoke to a lady on the train about metal detecting (as I was on my way to a hunt), and she told me her husband once asked the employees at an old homestead, if he could detect at the homestead, to which they said 'no' (simple answer, right?). However, the homestead is owned by the local government, so the employees don't really have much control over the property

There are quite a few old historical sites in my council which I would like to detect, and I know I can't just walk onto the site and start detecting (they'll probably say no, like above). So, I figured, maybe I could ask for permission from the council to detect at these sites, with the condition that they may display any of my finds from these sites in their local museum (sounds fair to me, I get the joy of digging up artefacts, and they get to preserve the artefacts in their museum).

Now, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to ask (I mean, I've got nothing to lose, but still, I don't want to create too much attention on the hobby), and I have no idea how to write/formulate such an email. I would appreciate some of your ideas/tips/suggestion, thanks

Btw, I would like to add that in the mid 1990's, it was suggested in a council meeting to implement a law that would prohibit metal detecting at historical sites. I couldn't find if a law was actually created, but given that they considered making one, suggests that perhaps people have already hunted some of these sites. Then again, I'm not sure how the metal detectors from the 1990's compare to today's detectors.

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Old 12-09-2017, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jimhenry View post
..... Part of my town's comprehensive plan is to compile and vet an inventory of historic sites within the town, but that requires volunteer labor, the only kind they can afford. So, I have met with the town council and stepped up to volunteer. Now first, these sites are all privately owned so it isn't the town that can give me permission, but in the course of going out to the sites, confirming they are historic, taking photos, etc., I figure I am bound to engage many of the owners in conversation and hope that will lead to some permissions. ...
^^ x2 ^^ It may take awhile, to "bump into them" or "help out in some way" (docent, etc...), but it beats the heck out of cold calls and emails. That will just be treated as junk mail and phone solicitors. Even standing up, as a total stranger, in a city council meeting will simply be met with the "run-around". You'll be given lip service while they tell you "we need to run this past our legal council" blah blah.

Contrast to if you know people on a first-name basis, and are "writing an article" on the history of such & such, doing research, etc.....
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
^^ x2 ^^ It may take awhile, to "bump into them" or "help out in some way" (docent, etc...), but it beats the heck out of cold calls and emails. That will just be treated as junk mail and phone solicitors. Even standing up, as a total stranger, in a city council meeting will simply be met with the "run-around". You'll be given lip service while they tell you "we need to run this past our legal council" blah blah.

Contrast to if you know people on a first-name basis, and are "writing an article" on the history of such & such, doing research, etc.....
Tom,
Actually I am friends with the chairman of the board of supervisors who "greased the skids", set up the meeting, and put me on the agenda. I am in and we are moving forward.

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