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Iron wrap signals and iron falses can be your friends

tnsharpshooter

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Strange title eh?

I see folks sometimes complaining about iron wrap and iron false signals,,like they want their detector to run quiet when sweeping bigger iron and nails.

Well if a detector indeed would do,,,what would be gained from a detecting standpoint besides less noise(tones) emitted from detector's external speaker of headphones???
IMO absolutely nothing.

We as detectorist need to hear the iron wrap signals and falses??
Why??

When we receive signals like these,,,the detector is actually doing us all a favor.
It is telling us where the bigger iron and nails are located.
Now this location might not be exact,,,since Vlf detectors can provide tone here slightly off of center to where the ferrous materials are located.

But we can take advantage here by hearing,,,,the area around these places are nesting areas for nonferrous targets,,,including jewelry and coins and relics.

Ask yourself,,think about what you do as detectorist when you get one of the big ole iron wrap signals.

Do you just press on with pride,,discount the area (spot) in general,,,and move on to greener pastures?? While continuing to sweep.

Well,,how hard is the site you are in,,has it been hunted???

This space around these wrap signals and falses,,deserve some respect.

It is time to start circling the wagons here,,,,when you get a iron wrap signal,,proceed to circle seeing how close you can get your coil,,,and cross cross the spot as well.

Pinpoint and extend your coil outwards and see what happens.
Do you have a good pinpoint over maybe the larger iron,,and pinpoint drops off and starts again??? Could this be a sign of a nesting nonferrous close to bigger iron.

A person might want to throttle their detector back a little here too,,while checking the adjacent area for nonferrous.

Also remember,,,if a target does exist here nonferrous wise,,,its ID could be skewed showing more of a lower conductor/junk target,,,and if you fall for this,,a very nice find may live to fight another day,,or your bud may come along and dig.

Maskers here is really what we are talking about,,,and bigger iron and nails,,,they can do a real job of making some finds harder to find,,but yet they still can be detected with a little patience and ingenuity.

Also,, a person who has 2 detectors with one wearing a smaller coil,,,marking these areas with the wrap signals and falses,,,and checking with a smaller coiled detector-- worthy idea.

Even resweeping a spot where say a bigger pice of iron is exhumed,,,a good idea,,one never knows they might just get lucky.

Every single time your detector makes noise,,,this noise just might be the difference between a super find or going home empty.

Study,,,think,,execute when in the field detecting.
 
Latley I have been hunting in iron infested home sites. I have pulled 5 IHP, a 1943 and 1917 mercs, and a 2 cent. All coins were masked to some degree. Everytime I get a little chirp or clipped tone in iron, I dig just to make sure, so far its 50/50 iron falsing and good targets next to iron.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
 
I agree with half your premise.

I love hearing all the metal including iron (with the proper tone)in the ground. I may not always run wide open, but pretty close most of the time.

As far as the falsing and wrap, I can't see any benefit in hearing falsing iron or of course iron wrap, which falses, this only causes more confusion and wastes too much time trying to decipher good from bad targets, not to mention the loss of time digging junk.
 
I agree with half your premise.

I love hearing all the metal including iron (with the proper tone)in the ground. I may not always run wide open, but pretty close most of the time.

As far as the falsing and wrap, I can't see any benefit in hearing falsing iron or of course iron wrap, which falses, this only causes more confusion and wastes too much time trying to decipher good from bad targets, not to mention the loss of time digging junk.

Well some detectors don't have a way to run like full tones,,and running disc a person might not hear,,,and some detectors don't have threshold.

Knowing where bigger iron is,,,,is important in my book.
Things can hide near--- not a myth,,but a fact.
 
Well some detectors don't have a way to run like full tones,,and running disc a person might not hear,,,and some detectors don't have threshold.

Knowing where bigger iron is,,,,is important in my book.
Things can hide near--- not a myth,,but a fact.

Even still a two or three tone machine would still have a dedicated tone for iron I would assume. If that is the case, I would agree when hitting somewhat trashy to heavy trashy sites, knowing where iron is is very important. But having it false on the iron is the least desirable thing I can think of.

I use Magic's Tone settings on on my V3i and can listen to iron all day without an issue, but it's a struggle on either the ATPRO or the Etrac- especially with the XY Minelab System and the tones based off CO while running in Conductive.

Never used a one tone machine so the falsing might be super important there.
 
Well,,,let's say a person is sweeping along,,and they know their detector well.
They get iron or nail false.
If they never got this,,,they likely wouldn't even know the iron or nail existed.

Ever watch usually how a detector gives a nail false,,,down the barrel moreso usually,,,so the coil swinging plane here,,if a person gets a false,,can be changed,,and just maybe a nonferrous find could be detected.

It is not a one size/answer fits all here situation wise,,,but since I've been playing with this Impact detector,,,this thread,,it's title is very important,,,should be for novice,,intermediate and more advanced detectorists.

IMO too many actual smaller spots/areas while detecting are being dismissed too causally.

Just maybe this is one of the reasons parks for instance keep giving up finds to some,,moreso than others.

Can a certain detector here,,,sway or up the odds,,with same/similar actions being taken to sneak out a find??
Certainly,,,but any detector can be used more efficiently depending on the detecting scenario,,even the cheap ones.

To add here,,,coil height--this is one of the biggest tools to use when deciding to examine an area moreso for nonferrous target.

For instance you get an iron wrap signal,,,coil height can be raised significantly and the wrap signal still present yet not as strong.
This area around this,,,far less likely for a nonferrous to be had closer using any detector basically.

But if coil height,,when coil is raised,,this signal goes way quickly even with the slightest increase in coil height,,,,this area around this spot,,,much higher odds of being able to detect a nonferrous target,,,using better technique and strategies.

This here what I am talking about,,,is very relative,,experience detecting and with your model of detector and coil size ,,,all important here.
 
I 100% agree with the importance of hearing Iron, I just want it to sound like a ferrous target. Whatever ever the ferrous signals are supposed to sound like.

Just don't agree with it being important that the ferrous target falses and sounds like a non ferrous target.

I understand that no machine is perfect and that they all false, but discrimination has little to do with falsing. What I mean by that is if you Discriminate out 100% of the iron the only iron you do hear will be falsing iron. If you had a wide open all metal, odds are it would still false.
 
The b1tch of it is that because machines are measuring certain properties of targets, a PIECE or EDGE of anything producing the same readings as a nice silver coin,even if just for a blink of an eye, will produce the tone as well. Anyone who's been swinging for any amount of time knows this, and it's a frustrating aspect of the hobby. It wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't so much stinkin' iron ALL over the place. But it is, and it does false. Different settings can tame it some,like not pegging the sensitivity all the time, turning the GAIN down some, slowing the sweep speed sometimes....we just have to learn to recognize it and know where it is in case there is something worth digging close by. I don't want to hear it, so I disc out the primary areas of the screen where this happens. It doesn't cure it ALL, but it helps. Backing off the GAIN will make the falses more "in the background" compared to a true coin hit. This is only in problematic places. I really want to run the GAIN at max to catch those really deep coins in cleaner places, but in an old farm yard that may not be possible and still keep your hat on. I do like to know where bigger iron is if I have to,but generally I don't hunt places with too much of that, there are just better buns to bake.
 
Can someone help a newbie out and explain what an ironwrap signal is?
thanks

Okay,,to actually be a better detectorist,,you don't necessarily have to know the why behind or what causes iron wrap signals.

Just be able to recognize while using any particular Vlf detector.
All Vlf detector will provide these iron wrap signals.

Things like axe heads,,horseshoes,,,bigger items that are ferrous.
These cause the detector to sense as nonferrous and actually read in the Normal nonferrous range.

Now not all detectors are created equal here as far as iron wrap signals.

Some detectors do provide better audio nuance to give better clue to iron wrap signal.

Beginner detectorist will need to dig some bigger iron that is providing these signals,,then they will start to see a pattern with them.
Now there are some other things you can do as a user to identify or give clues to this bigger ferrous item that is buried beneath your coil.

Pinpoint can be used sometimes to reveal more monster sized iron.
Coil height can be increased,,and if the signal is still coming in,,a good sign.
Now remember an aluminum can,,,can act a lot like this by using pinpoint to check or even increasing coil height.

Many times the audio will be distorted a bit to give a clue,,and many times rotating around a bigger pice of iron,,,a user will notice the signal fasdes or varies in strength,,and audio may vary.

There is really no way to get around not hearing these kinds of signals while sweeping bigger iron.

Sometimes a smaller piece of iron can do too.

Also,,very possible one of these bigger iron targets that is providing wrap signal,,you dig it up,,,and sweep on top of ground,,,it may not wrap anymore,,your disc setting,,,may knock it out (audio).

Recognizing iron wrap signal,,IMO should,be one of the first things any new detectorist learns how to interpret and deal with.

No real hunt able disc setting on any Vlf detector will get rid of these.

So they come with the territory.

A good ole horseshoe placed on top of the ground,,,you do this and sweep with your detector with say iron disced out,,,you should hear.

To save me some typing,,,look at this thread,,,person ask a question just like you did.

http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,17713,47828
 
Sometimes also disrupting the ground surface, say with one scoop of the shovel (if iron isnt too deep) can at times negate the "halo" effect iron has on the soil, and wrap or falsing a lot of times goes away.

A good target audio generally stays unchanged.
 
Sometimes also disrupting the ground surface, say with one scoop of the shovel (if iron isnt too deep) can at times negate the "halo" effect iron has on the soil, and wrap or falsing a lot of times goes away.

A good target audio generally stays unchanged.

Yes on iron giving wrap signal,,,a person can literally stick their shovel in ground off to the side a bit and pry just a little,,,if signal dissapears, likely ferrous,
A person can actually stomp over the top of some of these, and the vibration will
dislodge/upset the matrix composition of the irons and soil,,,and again signal will sometimes disappear.
Nonferrous object,,this doesn't really apply to them,,,,one exception,,and this could be a stretch,,possible too. Disturbing ground even slightly could knock out a nonferrous target for FBS/FBS2 detectors like Minelab Etrac,,explorer Series,,CTX 3030.
 
Falses and wraparound can hide things , that's true....but that don't mean they are good in any way. What percentage of these would you say is masking something better ?.....probably so low of a percentage that it would be barely worth mentioning. If a person methodically investigated each one it would use up a valuable amount of hunting time for what in most cases is just a hunk of junk. If the point is that some could be worth investigating further then I have to agree.....but if your point is they are all good and worth checking out in case they are hiding something good then , with few exceptions of course , I have to wonder if you have been drinking heavily :lol: The fact that some " may " hide something better is not the same as them being a good thing or doing us a favor. If there is something better there then there is a good chance it has hidden it from other people before you , but that's still a far cry from it being a good thing , considering the miniscule chances of that happening.
 
The b1tch of it is that because machines are measuring certain properties of targets, a PIECE or EDGE of anything producing the same readings as a nice silver coin,even if just for a blink of an eye, will produce the tone as well. Anyone who's been swinging for any amount of time knows this, and it's a frustrating aspect of the hobby. It wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't so much stinkin' iron ALL over the place. But it is, and it does false. Different settings can tame it some,like not pegging the sensitivity all the time, turning the GAIN down some, slowing the sweep speed sometimes....we just have to learn to recognize it and know where it is in case there is something worth digging close by. I don't want to hear it, so I disc out the primary areas of the screen where this happens. It doesn't cure it ALL, but it helps. Backing off the GAIN will make the falses more "in the background" compared to a true coin hit. This is only in problematic places. I really want to run the GAIN at max to catch those really deep coins in cleaner places, but in an old farm yard that may not be possible and still keep your hat on. I do like to know where bigger iron is if I have to,but generally I don't hunt places with too much of that, there are just better buns to bake.

Good tip, after you told me that, I reread most of Andy's book and only one guy had a little blurb on that. I googled Etrac & iron, saw little to do with gain settings. I do have a small spot in my back yard which is loaded with iron and falses bad. Until I adjusted the gain, now it's much better.

Thanks again.
 
Good tip, after you told me that, I reread most of Andy's book and only one guy had a little blurb on that. I googled Etrac & iron, saw little to do with gain settings. I do have a small spot in my back yard which is loaded with iron and falses bad. Until I adjusted the gain, now it's much better.

Thanks again.

Anything that I can offer is always yours Big T! I've learned a lot of things but it's a long road to perfection...;) I'll try to remember to give you a ring tonight about that "thing".
 
One thing I dislike about using Etrac,,I cannot after being in a site,,is to judge where I deem is the most problematic for ferrous materials. (Using stock sized coil)

Really all I can do is say to myself,,,I didn't find anything in this area,,but maybe did over in this other area.

Cannot get an accurate picture of site nail/iron density wise,,,,threshold sure,,nulling will happen,,,but the nulling could happen while nail/iron density is quite broad.

Now,,Deus,,,this one here,,I can definitely map out a site for nails and iron Density.

And guess what,,,hunting behind Minelab Etrac and CTX,,I see a pattern based on nails and iron density,,,these do seem the be the more productive areas(where Etrac or CTX didn't seem to find anything or very little),,,these finds coming with more typical Vlf tech,,but detectors like Deus,,that are it seems substantially better in iron and nails.

I don't keep any notes,,as far as my sites I hunted,,but each and every one,,I do remember what I call "the trouble spots or challenged areas),,and so knowing this,,,this is where I will dedicate most of my time.

And smaller coils,,faster recoery detectors get their shots here,,,sometimes they are successful,,sometimes not.

I call it Intel gathering anytime I am hunting a site,,always good to have the info in your hip pocket(so to speak) ,,if you ever go back to the site.

Newbies here reading,,,,don't get disgusted with a site just because you didn't find anything or anything decent or worthy on your first outing here.
After your hunt,,start thinking about what you heard,,,where you hunted,,how deep was a coin or something if you did find,,,where was the most modern trash,,any items found like pocket knives,,any object that could be a clue as far as where a group of folks or individual was a walking moreso habitually,,or in a needed pathway for transitioning from structure,,,or a road,,or a driveway,,or an exterior building,,shade tree,,etc.

You really do become a mini detective when you are out detecting.

After many trips to say a virgin site,,,I think you could indeed paint a pretty good pic of what transitioned on the site years ago.
 
The higher the operating frequency of your detector, and the the closer to -95 ground you are, the higher the chance that bigger silver (quarters on up) will wrap into the -95/94 range and seem like trash. In less ferrous ground higher frequencies do not have this problem. By less ferrous, I mean as the VDI moved from -95 to a higher number (-93, -92, -91, etc). This is one of the primary reasons why lower operating frequencies are better for silver than higher frequencies. Also, iron signals can wrap from -95/-95 into the positive 90's. This will happen more with higher frequency machine in ferrous (-95/-94) ground.

On my V3i, if the 7.5k and 22.5k signals wrap around into the -90's, and 2.5k does not, I will dig that without second thought. If the 2.5k signal wraps and the other two do not, it is a good sign that the target is iron and that signal wrapped from -95 into the positive 90's
 
Weeding through iron riddled sites usually pays-off pretty good. My method for working them with the M6 is tone ID, no disc. and a 4x6 DD. When I come across a suspected iron-wrap signal, I sweep around the target and see if I'm swinging in-between two iron targets. This also will give you false highs. If there is only the one target, I will sweep into it from all directions. This is the same method I use for hunting along fences and poles. You can find targets right up next to them if you swing into them. As soon as you stop the coil and swing away, you will get the iron, pole, fence signal. By far, a smaller coil makes the most difference. Just my 2-cents.
Happy Hunting
 
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