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  #1  
Old 05-29-2020, 08:35 AM
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Question How to use Discrimination Properly?

So I just got my Simplex this week and I am trying to wrap my head around all of its features and determine what works best for me. I did some testing in my yard to see what sort of signals different materials produced. Copper, brass, clad, and silver all ranged from about 70 up into the 90's. Iron obviously tested very low. the last thing I need to try is a couple of gold rings. I used it a couple of times in my yard and only dug signals that were consistently 70 or higher and it seemed to do very well and makes sense. I really have no interest in anything iron for the most part so I'd like to get rid of it to a point. I do notice from time to time you'll see signals that fall in the middle, say in the 30's. I haven't tried digging any of them yet to see what it actually is. Looking for some guidance on where to start with my settings. I was thinking of taking out the very low signals, leaving the range where the gold rings up, taking more out of the middle and then leaving the higher ranges? I guess one of my questions is, are there situations or instances where you dig these middle range signals, or do you only stick with the higher numbers (I am mainly interested in coins and silver). I don't want to be passing over huge lots of stuff, but I'd also like to cut down on some of the chatter. Thanks!

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Old 05-29-2020, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Diabolik View post
I do notice from time to time you'll see signals that fall in the middle, say in the 30's. I haven't tried digging any of them yet to see what it actually is. Looking for some guidance on where to start with my settings. I was thinking of taking out the very low signals, leaving the range where the gold rings up, taking more out of the middle and then leaving the higher ranges? I guess one of my questions is, are there situations or instances where you dig these middle range signals, or do you only stick with the higher numbers (I am mainly interested in coins and silver). I don't want to be passing over huge lots of stuff, but I'd also like to cut down on some of the chatter. Thanks!
Sounds like the typical TID numbers then. All detector brands and models vary, but for the most part there is a chart to use as a basis, see here.

Numbers in the 30s tend to be pull tabs, nickels, rings/jewelry, some can slaw, and coins that the TID is having trouble identifying due to depth (most detectors start at 3"-4", losing TID accuracy more as the target gets deeper).

If your asking me if I dig 30s or above - yes and have a pull tab collection to prove it. That however is why I have found interesting relics, jewelry (especially rings), nickels, and deeper coins other people skipped over. The target has to have a repeatable signal for me to dig though. If the TID number stays relatively the same and does not jump up or down more than a few numbers in ID I proceed as if it is a good target for anything really above 20. Besides the TID you will also have audio tones of the target and those tend to be more reliable, more informative as to what possible metal is found, and if there is any masking going on.

The more discrimination used the more good targets will be missed due to some depth lost. See the FMDF topic about it, and the article "Quiet Detector's Operation vs. Finding Most Deep Targets".

If trash is really an issue you can try one of the smaller 4"-5" coils often labelled nugget coil, sniper, or similar for your machine. However, as it is smaller you will also loose depth too. On my past machines that was typically 2" lost compared to a stock coil.

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Old 05-29-2020, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TCosbyJr View post
Sounds like the typical TID numbers then. All detector brands and models vary, but for the most part there is a chart to use as a basis, see here.

Numbers in the 30s tend to be pull tabs, nickels, rings/jewelry, some can slaw, and coins that the TID is having trouble identifying due to depth (most detectors start at 3"-4", losing TID accuracy more as the target gets deeper).

If your asking me if I dig 30s or above - yes and have a pull tab collection to prove it. That however is why I have found interesting relics, jewelry (especially rings), nickels, and deeper coins other people skipped over. The target has to have a repeatable signal for me to dig though. If the TID number stays relatively the same and does not jump up or down more than a few numbers in ID I proceed as if it is a good target for anything really above 20. Besides the TID you will also have audio tones of the target and those tend to be more reliable, more informative as to what possible metal is found, and if there is any masking going on.

The more discrimination used the more good targets will be missed due to some depth lost. See the FMDF topic about it, and the article "Quiet Detector's Operation vs. Finding Most Deep Targets".

If trash is really an issue you can try one of the smaller 4"-5" coils often labelled nugget coil, sniper, or similar for your machine. However, as it is smaller you will also loose depth too. On my past machines that was typically 2" lost compared to a stock coil.
Thank you for the links! Good info. I spent some time last night really watching the detector to try and see what is was showing. Going to take a little while to get a feel for it I think. Going to take it somewhere this weekend that is not my yard. LOL

I did see two interesting things with it last night. 1) was a shallow target that registered a solid mid 70's signal showing a rather shallow depth. I was pretty certain it was a coin. Ended up digging up a steel ring (looked like a part of some bearing hub) I was wondering why it was ringing up as it did and then I realized upon closer inspection the innermost portion of the part was a pressed in brass sleeve so I am guessing that is what I was locking on to? I only found a few other signals in the 70's that were rock solid but they were showing full depth on the machine. I am going to go back and dig a couple of those just to see what it is. My next door neighbor gave me his blessing to dig around in his back yard so I might wander over there tonight just to try some virgin ground and see what I can find. I know what kind of junk is in my yard.

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Old 05-29-2020, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Diabolik View post
Thank you for the links! Good info. I spent some time last night really watching the detector to try and see what is was showing. Going to take a little while to get a feel for it I think. Going to take it somewhere this weekend that is not my yard. LOL
Your welcome. It does take time and glad to hear your going to. Nothing like ones own yard to learn about their detector, and for some even excellent finds.

Originally Posted by Diabolik View post
I did see two interesting things with it last night. 1) was a shallow target that registered a solid mid 70's signal showing a rather shallow depth. I was pretty certain it was a coin. Ended up digging up a steel ring (looked like a part of some bearing hub) I was wondering why it was ringing up as it did and then I realized upon closer inspection the innermost portion of the part was a pressed in brass sleeve so I am guessing that is what I was locking on to? I only found a few other signals in the 70's that were rock solid but they were showing full depth on the machine. I am going to go back and dig a couple of those just to see what it is. My next door neighbor gave me his blessing to dig around in his back yard so I might wander over there tonight just to try some virgin ground and see what I can find. I know what kind of junk is in my yard.
The problem is the more metal there is the better any detector will like it regardless of the makeup. Much like thin wadded up bubble gum foil will read great an inch deep, and a ball of aluminum foil from a cookout can be nearly a foot down and often read as a silver coin at 4" (had it happen at a old Boy Scout camp and I kept digging to find it).

Great a permission already and nothing like virgin ground to get excited at possible finds. The only recommendation I have is to cut the best plugs you can on your finds, so you can rehunt later when you know your detector. I find hunting the same area several times will still turn up a few great finds (rather if it is from experience later on, soil conditions from a rain, or what I can't explain).

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Old 05-29-2020, 12:34 PM
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And remember, just because something chimes up in a certain range (or at all) in your testing situations, doesn't mean it’ll be the same in a real life scenario. Stuff that’s been under the dirt for a long time does… strange things. Halo effects for one, and the “gold ring” could be lying right next to an old finishing nail and false on you or hide completely. Sooooooo, for this reason, I mostly dig it all.

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Old 05-29-2020, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Skwerly View post
And remember, just because something chimes up in a certain range (or at all) in your testing situations, doesn't mean it’ll be the same in a real life scenario. Stuff that’s been under the dirt for a long time does… strange things. Halo effects for one, and the “gold ring” could be lying right next to an old finishing nail and false on you or hide completely. Sooooooo, for this reason, I mostly dig it all.
Yeah I figured there would be a lot of variables, but it gave me a pretty good range of where they would fall (in ideal conditions). Having the display is very helpful. I was shocked to find a few rock solid ones showing full depth and I really want to dig them just to see what it is. I have found a very nice variety of stuff in my yard already and I keep finding more. I swear the previous owner was burying some of this stuff because there is no reasonable explanation for why it is there. Searching the yard again has also made it very apparent that the Simplex certainly can find a lot more deeper targets than the Tracker could see. I am very happy with the upgrade and I think the Simplex is going to work very well for my needs.

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Old 06-01-2020, 07:34 PM
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Aluminum cans can fool you. They sound so strong. Lift the coil about 10 inches and if you are still getting a signal Step over them and go on. I dug a bunch of them out of my front yard before I learned. Yes there are still some out there.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by georgeinsc View post
Aluminum cans can fool you. They sound so strong. Lift the coil about 10 inches and if you are still getting a signal Step over them and go on. I dug a bunch of them out of my front yard before I learned. Yes there are still some out there.
Thanks, I’ll try that. Funny because the yard I was working Sunday gave me 3 complete can tops (tabs intact and unopened) with no signs of the can.

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Old 06-02-2020, 02:39 PM
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Can tops can ID exactly like a Large Copper Cent or half penny.

No way around not digging them Especially after I passed on that type of signal, it was huge even with the coil 6 inch up, and my detecting buddy dug it and pulled out a real nice 1816 LC.
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Old 06-02-2020, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by waltr View post
Can tops can ID exactly like a Large Copper Cent or half penny.

No way around not digging them Especially after I passed on that type of signal, it was huge even with the coil 6 inch up, and my detecting buddy dug it and pulled out a real nice 1816 LC.
Can you elaborate on the whole coil lifting? So if you make multiple passes and say you are getting a rock solid and stable signal, do you then try lifting the coil to see what it does? So if it still rings true at 6" off the ground you think it is trash? Would a shallow coin not give this response? This seems like something I need to learn and understand.

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Old 06-03-2020, 10:33 AM
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D, some of the best advice I've gotten from members here, listen small, how fast does the signal break.It will give you a pretty good idea the size of the target. Listen to tone, softer tone, usually a deeper target or a smaller shallow one. Louder signals come from shallow targets. numbers not all that important. They can be all over the place depending on what else is in or around the target. If I lift my coil, I lift it 10 to 12 inches for the reason you mentioned, a shallow coin. But again that goes to how quick the signal broke. Coins will have a distinct tone. Deep cans will fool you. Another thing, a good target won't move. If you get a good signal one way, remember that exact blade of grass, leaf, pebble, you get the idea and turn 90 degrees and if the signal is a couple of inches or more from the original break, good chance its junk. Again a good target doesn't move. And if you get a good tone that will only break one way, most times I will dig and many times I have had a coin or token with iron around it. As far as discrimination, on my machine I can adjust the volume so I keep all metal engaged. It helps me to hear the slightest break in ground. Too many good targets with junk around them. I have only been at this five years and still feel like a novice. Just about every hunt you learn something new or get surprised on something you thought you knew. The members here are great so I thought I would share a couple things I learned from them. Good luck. Mark

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  #12  
Old 06-03-2020, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by markinswpa View post
D, some of the best advice I've gotten from members here, listen small, how fast does the signal break.It will give you a pretty good idea the size of the target. Listen to tone, softer tone, usually a deeper target or a smaller shallow one. Louder signals come from shallow targets. numbers not all that important. They can be all over the place depending on what else is in or around the target. If I lift my coil, I lift it 10 to 12 inches for the reason you mentioned, a shallow coin. But again that goes to how quick the signal broke. Coins will have a distinct tone. Deep cans will fool you. Another thing, a good target won't move. If you get a good signal one way, remember that exact blade of grass, leaf, pebble, you get the idea and turn 90 degrees and if the signal is a couple of inches or more from the original break, good chance its junk. Again a good target doesn't move. And if you get a good tone that will only break one way, most times I will dig and many times I have had a coin or token with iron around it. As far as discrimination, on my machine I can adjust the volume so I keep all metal engaged. It helps me to hear the slightest break in ground. Too many good targets with junk around them. I have only been at this five years and still feel like a novice. Just about every hunt you learn something new or get surprised on something you thought you knew. The members here are great so I thought I would share a couple things I learned from them. Good luck. Mark
Thanks! I'm learning a good bit with the Simplex already. I have not used the discrimination at all yet and it has not been a problem. Digging around in yards I've only been digging like a solid 25 and up right now. I've mainly been looking for coins and it has worked well for me. I've been doing the cross method and have already seen a 74 swinging one way and then see it fall apart from another angle. I'd like to get back to the park this weekend and hit some of the areas I already hunted with the Bounty Hunter. I am pretty certain the Simplex will uncover some new targets that I missed.

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Old 06-03-2020, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Diabolik View post
Can you elaborate on the whole coil lifting? So if you make multiple passes and say you are getting a rock solid and stable signal, do you then try lifting the coil to see what it does? So if it still rings true at 6" off the ground you think it is trash? Would a shallow coin not give this response? This seems like something I need to learn and understand.
Over time you will find "too good to be true" high conductor signals that need to be checked with the coil lift method before digging. A coil lift six inches off the ground isn't high enough unless you're OK with never digging a fairly shallow silver half or dollar. If you can still hear a strong repeatable signal at 12 inches off the ground, then there's something BIGGER (much higher mass or density) than any coin or jewelry. Relic hunters might go for it depending on the property.

An aluminum can that's shallow, whole, and flattened longways (if that makes sense) is pretty easy to recognize as "not a coin" because the signal is simply too big/wide to be a coin. If the only thing left of the can is the round lid, or it's smashed perfectly top to bottom, then that's not much bigger than a silver dollar. The deeper they go the harder it is to tell.

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Old 06-03-2020, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Diabolik View post
Thanks! I'm learning a good bit with the Simplex already. I have not used the discrimination at all yet and it has not been a problem. Digging around in yards I've only been digging like a solid 25 and up right now. I've mainly been looking for coins and it has worked well for me. I've been doing the cross method and have already seen a 74 swinging one way and then see it fall apart from another angle. I'd like to get back to the park this weekend and hit some of the areas I already hunted with the Bounty Hunter. I am pretty certain the Simplex will uncover some new targets that I missed.
I believe you have a machine that allows you to lower the volume of the iron rather than notch it out completely. That's a great feature.

I think somebody who is interested in getting good should learn the sounds and that's only done with minimal to no discrimination. That doesn't mean you can't have some time where you give your ears a break just want to swing and cherry pick easy signals. You'll also want to try different notching patterns over the same targets before you dig them so you can learn what good sketchy targets can sound like when discrimination is on. Later on, discrimination becomes one of several tools to help focus on specific targets. I use various patterns all the time, but my standard "first pass" is wide open with iron turned down or minimally discriminated (depending on the detector).

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Old 06-03-2020, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ToySoldier View post
I believe you have a machine that allows you to lower the volume of the iron rather than notch it out completely. That's a great feature.

I think somebody who is interested in getting good should learn the sounds and that's only done with minimal to no discrimination. That doesn't mean you can't have some time where you give your ears a break just want to swing and cherry pick easy signals. You'll also want to try different notching patterns over the same targets before you dig them so you can learn what good sketchy targets can sound like when discrimination is on. Later on, discrimination becomes one of several tools to help focus on specific targets. I use various patterns all the time, but my standard "first pass" is wide open with iron turned down or minimally discriminated (depending on the detector).
Yes, I have turned it down a little. So far it has seemed to be able to pick multiple targets out that are pretty close together. I have only come across a couple of spots where it seems like something was setting it off very erratically. I did not dig it as I was yard hunting. Not expecting to find anything too old in the yards near my house (built in the mid 50's). My parents yard was a former farm and is more of a wild card. I've dug all sorts of signals there and found all kinds of random things. I really don't have any interest in digging up iron of any sort. Rusty relics are not my thing.

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Old 06-04-2020, 12:10 PM
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I made a VDI chart for the simplex. It’s in the description of this video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu-vR9HK_ls
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2020, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ToySoldier View post
Over time you will find "too good to be true" high conductor signals that need to be checked with the coil lift method before digging. A coil lift six inches off the ground isn't high enough unless you're OK with never digging a fairly shallow silver half or dollar. If you can still hear a strong repeatable signal at 12 inches off the ground, then there's something BIGGER (much higher mass or density) than any coin or jewelry. Relic hunters might go for it depending on the property.

An aluminum can that's shallow, whole, and flattened longways (if that makes sense) is pretty easy to recognize as "not a coin" because the signal is simply too big/wide to be a coin. If the only thing left of the can is the round lid, or it's smashed perfectly top to bottom, then that's not much bigger than a silver dollar. The deeper they go the harder it is to tell.
Excellent answer.

My experience is a shallow LC, silver dollar (found several less than an inch down) and just the round can top laying flat & down 4-6inches, sound nearly the same. Full aluminum cans Plow smashed and down 6 inches are also hard to tell since they are deep enough to not be seen as 'not round'.
Yes, I do dig a lot of trash but also the nice surprise of a great find.
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:06 PM
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I really need to start "listening" better. Right now I am relying too much on the meter and I feel like I haven't made that connection yet. Granted I have only had the simplex out a few times and really have just been trying to get comfortable with the basic operation of a new machine. I have been listening to the strength of the tones to see how clean they sound. I am no where near ready to rely on just the sound alone though.

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Old 06-06-2020, 06:20 PM
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An aluminum can is a large target. Makes them much easier to detect. A coin is a much smaller target and that will decrease the distance that the machine can detect them. By lifting the coil as you swing till it is about 10 or so inches about the soil you have eliminated the vast majority of items that are more shallow. Also the signal off an can will be much stronger than say a coin. I have picked up cans that were a foot deep.
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by georgeinsc View post
An aluminum can is a large target. Makes them much easier to detect. A coin is a much smaller target and that will decrease the distance that the machine can detect them. By lifting the coil as you swing till it is about 10 or so inches about the soil you have eliminated the vast majority of items that are more shallow. Also the signal off an can will be much stronger than say a coin. I have picked up cans that were a foot deep.
Yes, I’ve really tried to pay attention to the footprint of the signal under my coil. There are many times things are ringing up like a coin, but the footprint tells you it is definitely something bigger. I’ve also come to realize the pinpointer is a great tool as well. I can tell immediately if I’ve dug a clinker just by how the carrot is responding. I can tell I’m digging slaw way before I see it. Pull tabs are another story.

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