Treasure Hunters Beware!

Finders keepers, but you still have to get permission of the land / ocean's owners....

They are trying to legislate us out of the picture.

I love their way of thinking we need to study it (which means we need the work as we have worthless jobs) They didn't know it was there weren't looking for it and some enterprising person does the work they didn't want to do and find it and then they say we want it. Ice

What a load of you know what ...

Complaining that history is "lost" once it is recovered and/or sold.

It was already lost. And would have remained so were it not for enterprising treasure hunters.

The best thing we can all do is become experts in history (like many on this forum, it appears to em, already are). Mix the best of both worlds ... hunting and scholarship.

Geoff

I don't think many of us, if any, are true "treasure hunters." Treasure finds of any archaeological significance are already protected under various antiquities acts, but metal detecting a park, school, or old homesite don't fall under these regulations. Everybody has to fight for their perceived turf.

Its been going on here for years and there is always debates on the Uk forums.The relationship between arkies and detectorist has improved a lot over the last few years but there will always be the die hard arkies just as there will be the die hard detectorist.The only way forward is to work together,were not going anywhere.I hate the phrase "treasure hunters".Im not out there looking for treasure to make money out of,but i suppose there is a few detectorist who are doing just that.

This sort of argument has been going on in the UK for a long time, although mostly regarding land sites.
Fortunately detectorists and archaeologists are learning to work together, to an extent !.
All archaeology is destruction, as once an object is removed (in land or sea), it cannot be put back. If you have a wreck containing a lot of treasure, you may get people going down to retrieve it, and not caring about the rest of the boat, destroying archaeology in their race to get "their" loot.

To the treasure hunter, the value is in how much money they can make, to the archaeologist the value is in the knowledge gained from the site as a whole.

Snap Simon

Yeah, right, waaah waaaah.....

Always someone to cry about there missed chance. Apparently the writer didn't watch the first 2 episodes of Treasure Quest carefully. The onboard archaeologist is very much in favor of preserving the site(s). There's absolutley no reason that all the riches (monetary and historical) can't be preserved and enjoyed by the world. Too bad they decided to pick on Odyssey and Discovery, on the other hand there's little to be gained by picking on the poor.
Marty

I watched a show on Nat Geo about a ship that was recovered with lots of gold. What amazed me was that the insurance companies that had payed out claims in the 1800's were now laying claim to the gold recovered.

What amazes me about the arguement is that it didn't matter until a "hunter" spent a lot of money in research and equipment to recover the vessel. If arkies cared that much then let them find the resources to recover the "historical" items.

I for one will continue to watch the dedication of the hunters!

Who owns the ocean? If something such as these finds are discovered hundreds of years later outside state or other countries boundries and no effort has been made by anyone or country to find it, I say "losers,finder's keeper's."

If I find items during my beach hunt's and no has tried to find it or file any lost report's, I say again "losers,finder's keepers" (after I make a reasonable effort").

Bob

I think the archaeologists are just jealous of us treasure hunters cause they can't find anything on there own without taking over someone Else's finds

Below is a quote from one of the commenters in relation to Spains "claim" on the treasure that I believe is appropriate, in line with Spains thinking.

"The present country from where the ship was first loaded up with treasure should file suit to supercede Spain's claim. The treasure was stolen from local people so if the treasure hunter doesn't really own it, neither should the original thief!"

Now, I personally believe that if you want to lay claim to anything lost in international waters or public places, then spend the time and money to do the research, hunt and recovery. If you find it and recover it, it's yours, otherwise shut up! There are exceptions to this, but this isn't one of them.

If you find something good best to keep your mouth shut or it will be taken away. I wouldnt even post a great find here

The angle i think these countries are aiming for is the "ownership" of said shipwrecks. They feel that since their country financed the voyage or building of them they are entitled to the cargo still onboard...even if its sitting at the bottom of the ocean.

I tend to lean towards the finders keepers angle as long as the wreck is in international waters...it gets kinda sticky when its in a countries territorial waters. It would also make sense that there should be a statute of limitations on the amount of time a country can lay claim to a wreck in international waters anyway.

There is a treasure story that I plan to work on finding here in Texas. Texas states that anything found in the ground is the states... dont think Ill be sharing whether I find that or not!

I think the treasure hunters are doing what others either cannot afford to do or are not willing to commit resources too. As long as there is just compensation for their find as well as royalty possibilities I dont see why these finds cannot be shared with the world...i.e. King Tut is still making money today!!! (exhibit currently in Dallas)

Although I agree with my UK friends on the term of Treasure Hunters,the law/government still use the word “Treasure”

I am sure the law is slightly different for Scotland.

Last year I found a silver ring which fell into the definition of “Treasure” and the TA 1996 was brought into play regarding the silver ring.

Case is still ongoing.

Doug (England)

The Treasure Act 1996 governs what is defined as treasure and how treasure finds must be reported and dealt with in England and Wales. The Act was revised in 2003 to give a wider definition of treasure.



Treasure Act 1996 chapter 24


Meaning of “treasure”

1 Meaning of “treasure” (1) Treasure is—
(a) any object at least 300 years old when found which—
(i) is not a coin but has metallic content of which at least 10 per cent by weight is precious metal;
(ii) when found, is one of at least two coins in the same find which are at least 300 years old at that time and have that percentage of precious metal; or
(iii) when found, is one of at least ten coins in the same find which are at least 300 years old at that time;
(b) any object at least 200 years old when found which belongs to a class designated under section 2(1);
(c) any object which would have been treasure trove if found before the commencement of section 4;
(d) any object which, when found, is part of the same find as—
(i) an object within paragraph (a), (b) or (c) found at the same time or earlier; or
(ii) an object found earlier which would be within paragraph (a) or (b) if it had been found at the same time.

(2) Treasure does not include objects which are—
(a) unworked natural objects, or
(b) minerals as extracted from a natural deposit,
or which belong to a class designated under section 2(2).
2 Power to alter meaning (1) The Secretary of State may by order, for the purposes of section 1(1)(b), designate any class of object which he considers to be of outstanding historical, archaeological or cultural importance.
(2) The Secretary of State may by order, for the purposes of section 1(2), designate any class of object which (apart from the order) would be treasure.
(3) An order under this section shall be made by statutory instrument.
(4) No order is to be made under this section unless a draft of the order has been laid before Parliament and approved by a resolution of each House.

3 Supplementary (1) This section supplements section 1.
(2) “Coin” includes any metal token which was, or can reasonably be assumed to have been, used or intended for use as or instead of money.
(3) “Precious metal” means gold or silver.
(4) When an object is found, it is part of the same find as another object if—
(a) they are found together,
(b) the other object was found earlier in the same place where they had been left together,
(c) the other object was found earlier in a different place, but they had been left together and had become separated before being found.

(5) If the circumstances in which objects are found can reasonably be taken to indicate that they were together at some time before being found, the objects are to be presumed to have been left together, unless shown not to have been.
(6) An object which can reasonably be taken to be at least a particular age is to be presumed to be at least that age, unless shown not to be.
(7) An object is not treasure if it is wreck within the meaning of Part IX of the [1995 c. 21.] Merchant Shipping Act 1995.

Although we must have one of the best and most productive environments for detecting here in the UK we still have to pursue our chosen hobby within the law of the land?

Do I agree with the law, yes I do, is my view shared by all detectorist’s in the UK……..?

Doug (England)


Duty of finder to notify coroner.— (1) A person who finds an object which he believes or has reasonable grounds for believing is treasure must notify the coroner for the district in which the object was found before the end of the notice period.

(2) The notice period is fourteen days beginning with—
(a)the day after the find; or
(b)if later, the day on which the finder first believes or has reason to believe the object is treasure.

(3) Any person who fails to comply with subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to—
(a)imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months;
(b)a fine of an amount not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale; or
(c)both.

100% agree!!

booker said:

If you find something good best to keep your mouth shut or it will be taken away. I wouldnt even post a great find here

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I could not have said it better. The first thing that I thought about when I read the story last week about the person finding the 824 gold coins in the broken pottery in GB was "what an idiot!" I would never tell ANYONE if I made a discovery like that. And, here's why...

A. If I am MDing there, I have permission from the landowner to hunt and keep my finds.

B. I do not MD anywhere public that I might make such a find because I don't want the headache of dealing with the "government" if I do make a "significant" historical find.

C. I agree with previous posters feelings that if the archies want to find all this "historical" treasure they need to raise the money and go find it, not steal it from people who spent their time and money doing it for them.

Let's be realistic, it all comes down to money and fame. If someone can take it from you instead of doing the work to get it for themselves, they will.

booker said:

If you find something good best to keep your mouth shut or it will be taken away. I wouldnt even post a great find here

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Well said booker, You will notice by reading my posts "I never find anything good"

yep i only post clad finds