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Deus HF elliptical coil info

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tnsharpshooter

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Will be talking about here.
Doing some tests, and will take on a nice place to give a run and draw some preliminary conclusions hopefully.

Alright I'll get started.

First off I have checked, coil bolts seem identical between this HF coil and my LF coils.

Weight comparing 2 Deus fitted with remote, one with 9" LF coil, the other fitted with hf elliptical. Rods on both adjusted to same length.
Weight wise just feeling feel pretty much the same.
Don't have worthy scales.

Balance though advantage to the HF coil setup.
LF coil setup more nose heavy.
Not a show stopper here, as many have used the LF coils, just HF is better.

Next, if you are reading here for gold nugget performance you are in the wrong place.
I hqve no gold, and don't think there is any near me. Wish there was.

HF coil has no profile setting to normalize VDI of targets.

Here is some data on some coins and a Eagle button.
First readings are with Elliptical coil set to 141414 hZ

Silver Dollar....97
Silver Half......96
Silver Quarter 94
Buffalo nickel..58
Wheat head....86
Merc dime......89
Zincoln...........83
1902 IH..........79
Eagle button...59

Freq changed to 28829 hz

Silver dollar.......98
Silver Half.........97
Silver Quarter....97
Buffalo nickel.....72
Wheat head.......91
Merc dime ........94
Zincoln.............89
1902 IH............87
Eagle button......76

I can already tell by doing some test over relic iron, elliptical coil users likely will enjoy hunting using full tones.
Why ?
Because when using 28829 freq tone nuance over relic iron using conventional disc like example 6 is gone moreso vs using more traditional LF coils ( even when LF coil is run at 18khz.

I have a deep nickel 10" buried for a while.
Comparing 2 Deus units one with low freq coil 9" installed and the Other with HF coil installed.

A comparison was done. (Only reactivity settings 3 and 4 were used on both setups)
With like settings using deep program except for freq obviously.
LF coil gave best signal using 12 and 18khz using reactivity settings 3 and 4 vs HF coil using 14414 hz.

Now switch freq to 28828 on HF coil, this setup provides clearer signal than HF coil dialed to 14414 hz and also the LF coil dialed to both 12 and 18khz.

HF coil signal here at 28829 hz is cleaner sounding and louder.

Also should point out. Using reactvity settings 3 and 4 with the HF coil at 28.8 kHz,,,user has lots of coil leeway for detection, fore and aft when sweeping.
Also, this nickel would be practically impossible to miss setting solo in my ground here. Sweep speed,,,I can't swing over with any speed really and miss-- always get a STOP me in my tracks. No brainer signal.
I did try reactvity 2.5,, still a lot of leeway sweep wise just don't get crazy and overdo.

Should point out just shy of half on mineral strength meter full,,so my ground not mild.

Elliptical coil does offer frequency offset.
Center band freq for 14k area
Center freq is 14414 kHz
Lowest available is 13333hz
Highest available is 15686 hz.

Next the 28kh band
Center freq is 28829 hz
Lowest available is 26667 hz
Highest available is 31373hz.

For gee whiz, since this detector with elliptical coil offers no VDI normalization,
Using freq band 28.8khz with freq offset to lowest freq 26667 hz, I air tested a few targets. Folks can look up above to see how they compared when swept at 28829hz.

Freq again swept 26667hz
Silver dollar ..97
Silver Half......97
Silver quarter 96
IH ...............86
Buffalo nickel 71
Zincoln..........88
Merc dime......92

Take a look at this pic.
Rusty nail and spent 22lr cartridge. Spaced apart.
Looks like a no brainer target to hit(hull) right?
Wrong.

wlx30k.jpg


Again Inused the deep program, elliptical coil.
Sweeping down the barrel trying to hit the cartridge.
Setting used
Sens 90
Reactvity 3 silencer -1
Disc at 2 full tones.
Correct GB
Audio response level 5
Using 14.4 kHz a user sweeping with coil height above this scenario at 3" would never dig period.

Using 28.8 kHz same settings BINGO,,nice alert able signal.

Another pic, same targets using 9" LF coil dialed to 18khz.
Same settings as above used deep program with tx power lowered to 2.
Reactvity 3 silencer -1
This 22lr hull adjusted out distance wise from nail so I could be alerted on cartridge.
Compare with pic above as far as differences in distances noted.
fuvzno.jpg
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Some folks may think the bottom pic is pic of poor performance here with LF coil.
Question is, is it?
Nope.
I think you would be hard pressed to find a detector wearing a 9" coil and many even smaller to do what the Deus does here with 9" LF coil as far as the distance depicted here on these 2 objects, sweeping down the barrel of nail.
Might just be the Deus is maybe the only one to beat itself here.lol

The last pic above, Deus does pass with scenario pictured reactivity 3, gives alert able signal both directions when sweeping down barrel of nail.
What about the mighty deep tech warrior here (18khz unit btw),, how does it do wearing super six coil?
It only picks up the cartridge coming from the non nail side when sweeping.
From the nail side, notta, nothing.

Remember all testing done was at coil height approx 3-3.5" above scenarios swept.
Just so some here don't think I'm BSing.
Btw had to go on eclipse hold for around 5 minutes.
The turkeys and crows went apeshxt when it got dark.

Btw, some of how I talk about things here, is not meant to insult anyone's detecting intelligence. Some of the newbies or folks interested in Deus, these folks might not understand some of this as easily.

2e3r5uq.jpg
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Alright a 2 hour hunt in a site loaded with iron. 95 degrees- burnt up
Beat to death hard with some other good hunting in the iron detectors including Deus with 9 and 11" LF coils (black ones).

What did I find nonferrous wise?
Not one stinking find period.
I did dig some iron, will post a pic.

I believe in the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
This HF coil IMO,,,I DON'T recommend for green horn Deus users.

Now, in this site I ran mostly at 28.8 kHz.

In a site like this riddled with iron, you use the deep program,,better hold on, you are in for a ride. Nails and iron become hot, even with 6.4 disc dialed in.

The tone nuance with iron, even running full tones is altered IMO, meaning nails and iron will fool a person.

I had 2 suspect targets,,,had I been running 9" LF coil and heard what I did, Inwould hqve bet 20$ and gave a person 4 to 1 odds that both were nonferrous.
Turns out both ferrous.

I think a good way to start out with this coil might just be hot program disc 6.4 pitch tones selected with tone maxed.
Here I think bigger iron is more exposed, tone nuance wise.
Also, it is my opinion here, if anyone ever gets so proficient with this coil, that they can tell some iron hits from nonferrous with out toggling to 14khZ, I will bow to them.lol

Meaning toggling to 14khz lets Deus get a lot of its tone nuance back over iron.

Should say, if we accept this elliptical coil on Deus is like a new detector in a site.
This is the first time I have ever taken a supposed exceptional detector in iron here and hunted for 2 hours and never found the first nonferous item.
Impact with smallest coil did
Rutus with 11" dd coil did
Rutus with concentric coil did
Nokta relic with smallest coil did.

Makro Racer did not with smallest coil.
Fisher F75 SE model with smallest coil did not.
Fisher F75LTD2 with smallest coil did not ( didn't run FA process)
Warrior hasn't been in here yet with super six coil.

I was surprised to say the least.
I will run more.
And hopefully can share some more about.

Forgot to say, over clean ground adjacent to this iron pit, Deus mineral strength meter pegged half way.
No emi issues noted, even hearing aircraft flying overhead passing by.

So far unless something changes, I think Impact with smallest coil runs smoother in this iron pit vs Deus with elliptical coil. Now I haven't run the midsized coil for Impact in this site.
Coil size could make a difference.
After today, Impact gets some higher marks as far as smoothness in this site, even run a full bore at 20khz with smallest coil.

Two hours of sweat.
117ya6a.jpg


If I had to pick one detector the Deus with elliptical coil (running at 28.8khz) reminds me of,,it would be the Nokta relic detector.
Remember I haven't run all models detectors.

Remember too Impact runs smoother than Nokta relic detector.
Why I said what I did above concerning Impact.

Just trying to relate to folks what I witnessed today.

I have watched a few videos of elliptical coil in action.
Yes, in sites with little bits of ferrous,,I can see it doing better, vs a site that has mixed sized ferrous,,,bigger, medium sized and smaller.

This gent Garry in UK, , he should bring his camera to this site I was at and do a video.
Would look different I think than some of the ones he has done.
Just my opinion.
 
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May have to rethink here with this coil.
I can see some benefits for relic hunters using highest frequency.

Also, deep mode seems to provide additional coil height above ground even on deeper targets.

10" deep nickel, this elliptical coil tags even with highest freq dialed in.

Right now I am finding xy screen zoom setting 4 works for me.
Btw, xy screen I think better tool here to make dig no dig decision ( as far as ferrous and nonferrous),,still not absolute, but using elliptical coil seems data presented better than LF coils.
A tight signature on xy screen can be a good clue for masked target getting though, where the ferrous and nonferrous are fighting with one another hence the tight signature on xy screen.

Bottlecaps
Using xy screen using lowest freq does give clue to this nuisance target.
You up the freq to the other 2 freq areas, not much data to suspect bottlecap on xy screen.

This coil in my soil, approx give or take half scale in mineral strength meter,,seems/acts like the mineral is not even there. Truly shocking.
 
Nice post and thanks for the honesty! I had a gut feeling even without testing that this was about the way it would go. I had hung on to my Deus thinking the elliptical may be what i needed but when i got the Impact and used the small elliptical coil i have been very successful in my heavy trash sites digging rarely any iron. I get what i feel is great depth for a small coil , some of my finds are at 8 inches now. With the Deus hitting bigger silver so close to iron on id and sound like Calabash pointed out and i experienced it as well, i decided i did not think there would be much of an advantage for me to hang on to the Deus and pay 400 for a new coil. Even if it had been on par with the Impact small elliptical coil it was still way more expensive, so i am very happy with my gut feeling it is a win win for me.

Now some future software update for the Deus might really change things up? Who knows, but right now for where i hunt and my soil i feel good about my decision to sell the Deus when i did even before the coil came out.

Again don't take my post wrong i think the Deus is a great machine , but for me in my sites i feel i am using a better one currently.
 
Trashfinder said:
Nice post and thanks for the honesty! I had a gut feeling even without testing that this was about the way it would go. I had hung on to my Deus thinking the elliptical may be what i needed but when i got the Impact and used the small elliptical coil i have been very successful in my heavy trash sites digging rarely any iron. I get what i feel is great depth for a small coil , some of my finds are at 8 inches now. With the Deus hitting bigger silver so close to iron on id and sound like Calabash pointed out and i experienced it as well, i decided i did not think there would be much of an advantage for me to hang on to the Deus and pay 400 for a new coil. Even if it had been on par with the Impact small elliptical coil it was still way more expensive, so i am very happy with my gut feeling it is a win win for me.

Now some future software update for the Deus might really change things up? Who knows, but right now for where i hunt and my soil i feel good about my decision to sell the Deus when i did even before the coil came out.

Again don't take my post wrong i think the Deus is a great machine , but for me in my sites i feel i am using a better one currently.
Click to expand...

I don't take your post wrong at all.
If I am going to fry in 95 degree heat, might as well tell the truth.lol

Something that bothers me a bit.
Version 4 was released with it seems round HF coil,, why not the elliptical coil too?

Could version 4 be more compatible with the round HF coil?

Strange nonetheless.

Sorta like the Blisstool V6, it was released with stock coil,and bigger, then a smaller coil released. And since Blisstool in not updatable,,we know bliss program was not catered to for the smaller coil.

Now here is a $64,000 question.
Can Deus be programmed to be program specific as far as its performance and behavior based on coil ser # entered?
I'm not talking about each individual coil, but coil model/size.
We know XP does this somewhat partially since some settings options using HF coils are not available. But these are settings, not how the other settings make the detector react or behave.
If not, this is where XP should be going in the future.
 
More info.

I think now I can understand why I didn't find anything yesterday.

Wish I Had my Impact in hand (on loan).

Bottlecaps, I mentioned above,,coil movement fore and aft using full tones, get close to tips cap tone turns into iron tone.
Comparing freqs there may be a slight edge to lower freq here as far as how far out to to coil tips one gets to get cap tone to turn irony sounding.

Gotta watch that smallest coil on Impact.
Deus elliptical is bigger,,deeper too,,,but can't do some things the Impact can.

Sweeping down a small nail,,once coin conductivity climbs above IH,,game over for Deus it seems.
Impact will still give me some thing tonally using zincoln.

Maybe I missed.
Never did see where XP explained the different filters per program selected.
They should be shot for not doing if this is truly the case.
If they would have explained a bit,,,would have made Deus easier to learn for folks even already experienced deus users.
 
calabash digger said:
it is the case and they are different actually have a video of the different filters being tested.
Click to expand...

Now thinking a little more about this.
XP didn't have to go into great detail explaining.
But a few general statements maybe like the following in user's manual.

We at XP devised the Deus detector with different factory programs.
These programs, even with identical settings dialed into remotes and or headphone modules users likely to notice performance differences depending on their individual detecting scenarios/sites.

Users should be mindful when they build their own programs for detecting, which factory program they base their personal programs.


At least the above would if read make a Deus purchaser curious.
Hence maybe they would figure out on their own, faster or at all.
 
Here is a possible real live scenario in pic.
Look closely.
Under the small hole is a 10" deep nickel.
In case anyone is wondering, weed killer used in pic, this nickel been in ground for 2 years.
Ruler in pic to show distance.
At the end of right side of the ruler, look closely you'll see part of a small rusty nail.
wbcvte.jpg
f

Swing in the path of rule with coil sweeps.
Using elliptical coil.
Hot program, sens 90 reactivy 2.5 silencer -1
0 disc full tones.
Audio report 5 GB dialed to actual ground,,no gb manipulation.
Using 14.4khz here with Deus,,nickel when sweeping down ruler would never be dug period,,,no signal I can hear.
But leave every other setting intact, dial, to 28.8 kHz the nickel sounds off.
Pretty good signal, would dig every day of the week.
But switch to 74khz and sweep in directions ruler is pointed,,an even better signal,,blairing actually.

In case anyone is wondering,,Using 9" LF coil hot program 18khZ reactvity levels 2,2.5,3 and 4 Deus failed to detect sweeping in same directions as above.

Also note using elliptical coil dialed to 14.4khz with settings above, if I sweep in a direction 90 degrees from ruler path,,Deus detects deep nickel.h
Now I say 90 degrees here,,there is more latitude for detection here using 14.4khz but you get that nail even close in line of sweep game over.

This is fun ain't it.
You folks better be glad I don't do videos. Lol

I didn't move the nail over closer to nickels path, to see how close I could get and still detect using higher freqs.
I may do.
 
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The pic posted in post#10 here,,,this nail is for all practical purposes as close as it can be put to nickels path for detection using 28.8khz.

Another pic
Here is the closet using 74.4khz the nail can be placed and elliptical coil swept down the line of nail and deep nickel.
Reactvity level 3 used here.
Still very good.
And to clarify, I am talking about tone being provided from both directions as coil sweeps nickel and nail.
2u7q6aq.jpg


Folks can look up and compare the distances here in prior post.

Also remember using Deus with this HF elliptical coil, could I offset raise 28.8 kHz to max in the band and squeeze out a little more separation, without having to use the highest band of freqs??
 
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Alright,
Played with this detector all day practically.
Then took it on another hunt, across the road from yesterdays hunt.
Didn't get goose egged this time.

I think I have been approaching this coil wrong from the start.
You see when I get a new detector and or coil, what I try to do is see how real challenged targets sound, try to hide tonally using equipment.

Well, this HF Coil running at say 28.8 kHz in a ferrous polluted site,,seems this coil can't be massaged so much coil sweep speed/positioning,,meaning the nonferrous just more or less rips through.

I can see some nice finds being has with this coil in already supposed hunted out sites.
Some real small gold jewelry, and other low conductive like pewter too.

I played with this detector in some modern trash, and did some test.
My best guess right now,,better separation amongst varying conductive nonferrous, user might try full tones. (Better be on your toes with your ears)
I tried multi tones and adjusted tone breaks to try and make Deus work tonally when sweeping over mixed conductive targets (same plane testing btw), but my ears told me this wasn't the best approach here.

Could this coil be used in a park setting?
Possibly.
But IMO I would use this coil and do select digging.
How?
I would be keying on any iron tones heard, and would study these spots with coil.
I can already see a pattern here with this detector.
You up the freq around ferrous, you up your recovery potential, meaning you get on a target using 28.8khz,,that sounds good, and switch to 14khz, and the target disappears.
One of 2 things likely is happening.
Either the target is small and real low conductor, or the target is heavily challenged (conductivity unknown, but likely not real low)
Now this would apply to sweeping any target, and could be used to judge say the target comes in on a 2 way sweep using both 14khz and 28.8 kHz, but upon pivoting on target and sweeping the target drops out using 14kHz or signal,gets super ragged.

In a sense here, a person could by trying the above go to a park scenario, and smartly choose just a few challenged targets and dig.
Not too many.
And come back later and repeat.

Not to jump on the Deus wagon too hard here,,but this elliptical coil with its high freqs,,,it will see some nonferrous targets around houses, fields, parks, etc that could have never been detected before period.
Now what I also think here, you bust a site with another good detector coil setup I have,,you go in behind,,most of what you'll find will be to many other detectors including this other combo Inhave to be masked and out of detector depth range.
Key phrase here mostly.

This elliptical design, along with Deus, does have capability to punch deep even when coil is on ferrous periphery I call it.

I also think, don't put it past XP to make say a 7x11" elliptical coil for Deus with HF coil battery setup, using the original Deus freqs of course.
Maybe I am wrong, but we'll see.

I did run 74khz some today in another place.
Imwas just trying to get a better pic of what's happening using it.
I get this target, a screamer, turned 90 degrees and signal gone.
Changed freq to 28.8khz, same as above but signal not as strong yet strong.
Changed to 14.4 kHz, deus didn't like at all.
Dug down and at 6" a real small rolled up piece of foil. (When Insay small, like the size of number 1 buckshot, if folks have seen these before. Little bigger than a bb size.

It will be interesting to watch and see what folks using this coil can pull out of old Civil War camps.
IMO, someone is going to find a gold coin using one.
The little $1 gold, it should be worried if in an old site with little modern trash.
I don't have the small $1 gold coin.
Would be nice to see some depth test done using one, laying flat and on edge.
Both in mild soil, and at least medium minerlized.
We all may be shocked at the distance potential on this target with elliptical HF coil.

Using the 14khz on this coil, Deus is still a standout, but you use the other 2 higher freq bands,,,even more standout. Using these higher bands does come with a price ( I am not referring to the price of coil here either)

Pic of finds of this late afternoon hunt coming shortly.

107qver.jpg
r

Btw every single on of these finds had had a Deus with 11" and 9" LF coil over previously,,running 18khz, and a multitude of reactvity settings. (2,2.5,3 and 4)
Multiple times too, like say 25 ish. (Now version 4 Deus LF coils only a couple times)
Tree is here as a landmark about 4 ft away.
Last coin found here was using Impact with smallest coil (war nickel)
I have lived in this place.
Might should put my mailbox down there.
Iron city btw.
 
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thanks for the info nice write up. Got to address something though that trash finder said above, quote With the Deus hitting bigger silver so close to iron on id and sound like Calabash pointed out and i experienced it as well, i decided i did not think there would be much of an advantage for me to hang on to the Deus and pay 400 for a new coil. end quote) I pointed out that if the deus is setup incorrectly it would do this, did you have the high end tone breaks set up like I described in the video?
 
calabash digger said:
thanks for the info nice write up. Got to address something though that trash finder said above, quote With the Deus hitting bigger silver so close to iron on id and sound like Calabash pointed out and i experienced it as well, i decided i did not think there would be much of an advantage for me to hang on to the Deus and pay 400 for a new coil. end quote) I pointed out that if the deus is setup incorrectly it would do this, did you have the high end tone breaks set up like I described in the video?
Click to expand...

Which video are you referring to?
 
U.S. coin program calling deep silver iron . Thats the only video where I show deep silver sounding like iron, I might have missed something though will see what he says.
 
calabash digger said:
U.S. coin program calling deep silver iron . Thats the only video where I show deep silver sounding like iron, I might have missed something though will see what he says.
Click to expand...

I have been running full tones mostly so far when actually hunting.
Sometimes disc level 2 sometimes 0.

I ain't ever going to set a tone break at upper 90s region.
I'll just work through whatever negative it might bring,,using any Deus coil really.

So to share results with folks here, I'll do with HF coil in this site I have access to. Grass not too long.
Will use both ways in different freqs and see what happens and how the detector sounds off.
 
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Now, in case someone from Xp reads this thread.
Xp I got a suggestion for you.
When you engineer your next detector(flagship hopefully)
What is this exactly?

Allow user to have hot key(s).
Allow user to program detector with hot keys so they can say change frequency with one push of a button.
Allow user to have a way to when doing this they too can link GB to this frequency they desire.

Also should be done for other detector settings.

Basically figure out a way where user can pick and choose what they want to make hot with key(s) for changing.
And have a way for these settings when changed with hot keys to be displayed on display or at least displayed momentarily.

This changing Deus the way it is now with settings on the fly in the field when detecting, can be made better.
I am sure of it.
 
Tn, do you still have a deus with 3.2 software? I was curious how it would do or did if you tested that same scenario? Just curious what would happen with either software if you ran reactivity at 1, silencer 0 or 1? I sold mine to test the new At max so i do not have one right now. Prolly will end up with one again though they are great machines! I still wonder how they would do with a 4.5 x 7 coil though, i would probably sell everything and get one. They are so dang good with the 9 inch round i just cannot imagine what a small elliptical at the old or new freq would do for me in the trash i hunt. Keep posts coming not that much out there on the new freq and vers 4 but what you and calabash post.
 
Trashfinder said:
Tn, do you still have a deus with 3.2 software? I was curious how it would do or did if you tested that same scenario? Just curious what would happen with either software if you ran reactivity at 1, silencer 0 or 1? I sold mine to test the new At max so i do not have one right now. Prolly will end up with one again though they are great machines! I still wonder how they would do with a 4.5 x 7 coil though, i would probably sell everything and get one. They are so dang good with the 9 inch round i just cannot imagine what a small elliptical at the old or new freq would do for me in the trash i hunt. Keep posts coming not that much out there on the new freq and vers 4 but what you and calabash post.
Click to expand...

I ran version 3.2 on 2 Deus units actually before I switched to version 4.
Only had one Deus with 2.0 though.

This site today had seen only version 3.2 Deus and a little 4.0 with LF coils.

The weather her got stormy on me, actually found another target, but abandoned due to lightning. Was under a bunch of roots.

I will be doing some tests on freshly buried using clad dime. To see how much leeway this elliptical Gives a user with say 8" and 9" and 10" deep dime.
For what I call iron encroachment.
Will compare 9" LF coil too.
Need to see higher freqs used too on this deeper clad dime.

This coil is punching mineral handily.
At least what I have.
I have a site in the woods polluted as all get out.
Was a mess trying to hunt with Deus 9" coil.
Nightmare scenario, old homestead.
Never found anything nonferrous.
Ground is upmelevationnwise and is getting pretty warm vs down lower here.

This coil likely considered specialty coil, but with some what knowledgeable/experienced deus user a nice tool to have.
I can't say right now how much I will use.
But come about January, I'll have a real good look at this coil to see what it's getting the 9" LF coil is missing, and maybe some other detector and coil combos too.

Will be trying some coins on edge tests too.
Should prove interesting.
I really don't know what to expect.
 
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I remember nasa Tom writing this,
There's been a lot of buzz/hunger for a small coil (approx 5") for the DEUS. The (expected) performance of the DEUS with a small coil will be identical to the performance of the XP GMP that does indeed have a small coil. Separation is enhanced; yet, there is an unusual amount of depth loss. You can read the exact findings in the XP GMP Field Test thread. Strongly recommended.......... for those who strongly desire a small coil for the DEUS.
 
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