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  #21  
Old 12-31-2017, 01:01 PM
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The subject is an interesting one. PART of the problem is the same at national historic places. People still BREAK THE LAWS. Most will not get caught because there just isn't the manpower.

Other issues is there is a park I hunted in the water at and found some nice gold. About three years ago they decided it might hold artifacts and they made detecting illegal. Just a little late.

I won't condone breaking laws but that is up to each and every one of you. People say me standing up for my rights gives us a black eye as a group. I know people breaking laws and detecting off limit sites give us a bigger black eye.

Before they decided on making laws against detectors and detectorists, I am positive places got hit that are now illegal to hunt.

In Utah I was hunting a MAN made beach on a man made reservoir. They dammed off a canyon and presto a lake. THEN they hauled in over three foot of sand and paved the park to make a beach and parking lot. Now for the kicker.

They made metal detecting ILLEGAL because you MIGHT find an indian artifact!!

Figure that one out!! I was stopped and told to leave. This was after at least 10 days of detecting it. I wasn't caught the first bunch of times. AND there are no signs posted.

I won't go back. I know it is absolute foolishness, but I follow the laws as written, UNLESS a LEGAL way around them.

That is how I get into some wonderful places including the Detroit River. Here is the law for the Detroit River:

Sec. 23-2-2. - Swimming and underwater diving; prohibitions.

(a)

A person shall not swim, bathe, or engage in underwater diving operations outside of buoyed and designated swim areas, except when authorized by the city police department harbormaster.

(b)

This section does not preclude bona fide commercial salvage diving operations, and emergency and recovery operations by any law enforcement agency.

So how did I beat the tickets?

Look at section B. I find gold, I sell gold, I have a business and business cards. I am salvaging gold to sell. THAT my friends is commercial.

So I have a legal right to dive the Detroit river unless they change the law again, in which they just might do one year. But until then, my underwater escapades are legal and NO police officer has the right to bother me.

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  #22  
Old 12-31-2017, 07:49 PM
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I went into that particular off limits park to prove a point to myself and satisfy a curiosity. I had a feeling that park was going to be as empty as I found it to be.

After 2 hard seasons hunting in and out of the water I had developed a strong suspicion that things were not as they seem to be. I was right.

I always follow the rules now, now that I know what the rules actually are.

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  #23  
Old 01-01-2018, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ScubaDetector View post
.... So how did I beat the tickets?

Look at section B. I find gold, I sell gold, I have a business and business cards. I am salvaging gold to sell. .....
Scuba , it is SO easy for most md'rs, to read something dire sounding, and just take it as meaning: "No md'ing". But I'm like you: I study to see if there's a loophole or mis-interpretation.
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2018, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Imalookin, what state are you in ? Are you making this statement about all states ocean beaches ?

So if you have a link to what you're saying , please share it.
My state is Florida. Our beaches are by law public from the dunes to in the water. As long as there is public access to get there, the beaches are legal to hunt with a few exceptions. The Treasure Coast has a few lease areas where water hunting is not allowed. State parks on salt water allow hunting from the dunes to the waters edge only. My post was clear when I said I was talking about my state.
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by imalookin2 View post
... My post was clear when I said I was talking about my state.
Ok, thanx. Then in context with your post (portion that I quoted), you can hunt state beaches there, as long as you ask first, right ?

Ok, is anything you're reading (if it's even codified, and not just commentary) possibly simply mean that a ranger has the latitude to decide "no" ? I guess what I'm trying to say is: Here in CA, if the FMDAC list of rules is to be believed, they too have some sort of "with permission of " or "at the discretion of" type language too. And the way that's always been interpretted is, that LIKE ANY ACTIVITY, a ranger has the latitude to say stop. For example, they can tell you to turn down your boom box (bothering your neighbor camper), etc.... It is not intrpretted as meaning : 'must ask first'.

If I'm wrong, and there's something that is saying the beaches are ok "after you've asked each time", please let me know the link.

And let's say your buddy arrives an hour earlier, and gets this permission that you speak of. You're 1 hr. behind him. Do you have to ask again when you arrive ? What if you got the green light the day before, do you ask the next day too ? What if you show up before the kiosk opens, or ... a stretch of beach where there's simply no kiosk ? I mean, is there EVER a beach there where you can hunt, simply only because it's just known ?
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  #26  
Old 01-03-2018, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Ok, thanx. Then in context with your post (portion that I quoted), you can hunt state beaches there, as long as you ask first, right ?
Florida State Parks do not require permission to detect (gulf and ocean parks). Beaches around the state do not require permission to detect. You just can't trespass to get on the beach. Most beaches have access. As long as you detect between the dune line and the waters edge. If you are ankle deep in the water the ranger would remind you not to be in the water. Non park beaches allow water hunting except for a few locations like lease sites, National Seashores and a few other examples. You can not detect in the dunes on any FL beach. The dunes help protect during hurricanes so no digging. That is why our beaches are public. The state replenishes beaches with our tax dollars so the beaches are free and no permits are required to detect or use the beach. Florida is a very detector friendly state.
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by imalookin2 View post
.... Beaches around the state do not require permission to detect.....
Thanx. There are other FL hunters who think they have to get a green light permission each time they go. And I think the misunderstanding comes from age old compendiums, where someone puts in an FAQ to the beach admin. asking "Is metal detecting ok ?"

The answer comes out something to the effect of "... at the discretion of district ranger". Or "subject to ranger on duty", or whatever. And the only thing language like that was EVER meant to convey was: That, like any activity, the authority on-duty has the latitude to manage whatever there. Eg.: he could ask you to turn your boom box down. He could tell you that your RC control airplane presents a danger, etc....

I don't think it EVER meant: Must ask first. It just meant that they could come tell you to stop. But for some reason, people interpret that with meaning: "I must grovel ahead of time".
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2018, 12:32 PM
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The law specifically states that anyone detecting on the beach must wear black socks and flip flops , and wear a fanny pack

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  #29  
Old 01-03-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ME&MYACE400 View post
curious minds want to know
Are they more lucky

You could always check for yourself.

It depends on the state, country, municipality and sometimes the beach itself.

Decide where you want to go and find out, but DO NOT call up city hall or whatever and ask, some lackey will say no because it's easier to say no than yes. If it isn't specifically banned by statute, go for it.

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  #30  
Old 01-03-2018, 01:16 PM
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I hit a TVA watershed/swim beach area...not telling y'all where, on account of any TVA watersheds are allegedly 'No Hunt' zones, but of course, it was a succulent looking location, so I couldnt help myself, I had my gear along, an hour to spare, curiosity, bravado, and impeccable timing characteristics were successfully employed as usual...So In I went...

Results? Not a diddly damn!...Not one coin or even a blue jean zipper or grommet!
Somebody ignorant to the TVA 'laws' sweeps this place on the daily!..Probably some old guy who lives right across the street..never seen such a signal free active "off limits" beach in my whole Life!..

I'm like what? Are my phones working? Not a frigging peep! Success in life is all about Timing...

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  #31  
Old 01-03-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
I can think of supposed "off-limits parks" here, that are JUST as worked out as any other park. How can that be ? And I can think of parks and beaches rumored to be "off-limits", yet .... persons who didn't know any better simply went, for an entire year, and never heard so much as "boo".

NOT saying to attempt this at some obvious historic monument, or defy a "scram", but ....... just sayin.
"persons who didn't know any better simply went, for an entire year, and never heard so much as "boo".

I have had strangers stop to talk, and many have suggested hunting off limits COE lakes locally, plus was a county sheriff while in uniform. He said he just goes off season, park outside the closed gate and hop the fence. Others tell stories of finding guns and good stuff from the same.

I'm not jumping out and hitting these spots which are apparently being hunted my tectors who likely don't know any rules, or even went to a metal detecting forum like this one, or maybe just didn't care.

End of story is that all interesting places get hit, and even heavily worked, while us veteran rules-followers respect even the hint of question about rules.

I also had a cop who was called due to my hunting an elementary school. They quickly told me it that what out I was legal. Then they suggested hunting a university for better luck. Universities aren't public and a simple, legal place to hunt is it?

People who have never read the MD rules probably detect spots most seasoned hunters generally respect and pass. In a way, "the nice guy" does finish last.
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  #32  
Old 01-03-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Scuba , it is SO easy for most md'rs, to read something dire sounding, and just take it as meaning: "No md'ing". But I'm like you: I study to see if there's a loophole or mis-interpretation.
Once city I hunt in, restricts digging instruments to "not more than 1/4 in width."

They say WIDTH... not "diameter."

As a result, I've successfully argued the metal on my Lesche digger is not more than 1/4" in width (I hold it sideways to prove it). The one person who challenged it just laughed and said, "you're right!" Most everyone else uses probes, but that's their problem for not knowing exactly what the law says.

The same ordinance says I cannot use a knife or a shovel, but it does say I can "cut a flap". I pointed out that obviously I need a turf tool to cut the flap, hence, the Lesche... That didn't hurt, either, because trying to "cut a flap" with a 1/4" probe is ridiculous.

Laws are all about "prohibiting" and they way they're worded DOES count for something. What I find (at least in my cities, here) is MORE important, is to start off with a huge smile and a wave... 99% of the time, the officers just wave back and go back to doing their thing. Having a few officers in the family, when people LOOK guilty, things take a different turn. I'm not guilty of anything, so why should I act that way!

Last, but not least, I always... ALWAYS leave the place looking nice.

It's a hard argument when you can look behind me and not be able to tell I was there... to then say I'm tearing up the turf. LOL

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  #33  
Old 01-03-2018, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippy SH13 View post
MORE important, is to start off with a huge smile and a wave... 99% of the time, the officers just wave back and go back to doing their thing. Having a few officers in the family, when people LOOK guilty, things take a different turn. I'm not guilty of anything, so why should I act that way!
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The aura you give off should say "I not only belong here, I might own it."

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  #34  
Old 01-03-2018, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Irons View post
Boss mode. Stride confidently, wave or at least look at everybody.
The aura you give off should say "I not only belong here, I might own it."
Originally Posted by Skippy SH13 View post
...... What I find (at least in my cities, here) is MORE important, is to start off with a huge smile and a wave... 99% of the time, the officers just wave back and go back to doing their thing. Having a few officers in the family, when people LOOK guilty, things take a different turn. I'm not guilty of anything, so why should I act that way! ...
You guys are right. MD'ing hassles are 95% of how you conductor yourself. And only 5 % "laws".

Reminds me of a fellow I knew when I was in college age. He was still less than 21 yrs. old at the time, hence not old enough to go to bars yet. But he boasted that he could get into ANY bar in town.

Now this fellow did not LOOK over 21 yrs. old, so I told him he was full of bologna. But he insisted he does it all the time. So I told him "you must have a fake ID then, right ?" Nope, didn't have fake ID.

So how did he do it ? Simple: He would walk right up the door bouncer, with an ear to ear grin, shake the bouncers hand and say "How ya doin' tonight ?". And then walk right in. You see: He'd learned that the only persons that bouncers card , are people who act evasively. Or cut wide berth around the bouncer. Or avoid eye-contact, etc... But if you walk right in like you own the place, they never card you.

So too is md'ing a lot like that. It's in how you conduct yourself.
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  #35  
Old 01-03-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
You guys are right. MD'ing hassles are 95% of how you conductor yourself. And only 5 % "laws".

Reminds me of a fellow I knew when I was in college age. He was still less than 21 yrs. old at the time, hence not old enough to go to bars yet. But he boasted that he could get into ANY bar in town.

Now this fellow did not LOOK over 21 yrs. old, so I told him he was full of bologna. But he insisted he does it all the time. So I told him "you must have a fake ID then, right ?" Nope, didn't have fake ID.

So how did he do it ? Simple: He would walk right up the door bouncer, with an ear to ear grin, shake the bouncers hand and say "How ya doin' tonight ?". And then walk right in. You see: He'd learned that the only persons that bouncers card , are people who act evasively. Or cut wide berth around the bouncer. Or avoid eye-contact, etc... But if you walk right in like you own the place, they never card you.

So too is md'ing a lot like that. It's in how you conduct yourself.
I fully agree. never got carded. at 16, I bought the upper classmen their beer. they went to the parties and I stayed at the bar. never got an underage. always shake the hands of the police at the picnics while holding a full piture of beer. no one is that dumb. I must be old enough. brings back great memories. thanks tom.

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  #36  
Old 01-05-2018, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ME&MYACE400 View post
curious minds want to know
Are they more lucky
in Florida you can hunt ALL beaches below the mean high tide line. If private security tries to run you off, and you are below the mean high tide line, call the local cops.

The exception to this rule is the east coast treasure beach, and you cannot hunt in the water within I think 1500 feet of a leased treasure wreck. But for all practical purposes unless you are diving on the wreck with a snorkle or scuba gear, they won't mind you wading in the water hunting.
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  #37  
Old 01-05-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by maxxkatt View post
.... The exception to this rule is the east coast treasure beach, and you cannot hunt in the water within I think 1500 feet of a leased treasure wreck. But for all practical purposes unless you are diving on the wreck with a snorkle or scuba gear, they won't mind you wading in the water hunting.
Thanx for chiming in maxxkatt. I like how you say "... but for all practical purposes". Because you are probably right: Someone who is at the water's edge, .... and an ebbing rolling wave washes in around his feet, could be *technically* said to be "in the water", right ? BUT SERIOUSLY NOW ... is anyone out there splitting hairs on "inter-tidal zone" versus "got his feet wet" versus wading out, etc... OF COURSE NOT. The only times you'd be hassled is if you were out there with snorkel or scuba.

Yet md'rs will fret themselves silly about this for some reason.
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  #38  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
You guys are right. MD'ing hassles are 95% of how you conductor yourself. And only 5 % "laws".
So too is md'ing a lot like that. It's in how you conduct yourself.
I don't buy that. I don't bother people and mind my own business. NOBODY has the right to tell me to get out of any body of water I am in legally. Cop or no cop. I am polite to everyone I talk to. BUT, I am not going to be pushed around and come back another day. IF a cop wants to learn the laws and understand we will get along just fine. IF a cop wants to push his weight around and try to intimidate me, he is in for a HUGE surprise. I have been talked to over 20 times. I have been harassed by officers only 5 of them. One of the 5 apologized. Four of them gave me citations which were dismissed either before court or in court.

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  #39  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ScubaDetector View post
I don't by that. I don't bother people and mind my own business. NOBODY has the right to tell me to get out of any body of water I am in legally. Cop or no cop. I am polite to everyone I talk to. BUT, I am not going to be pushed around and come back another day. IF a cop wants to learn the laws and understand we will get along just fine. IF a cop wants to push his weight around and try to intimidate me, he is in for a HUGE surprise.
Scuba, yes, your famed incident was in that "5%". Sounded like you minded your own business, weren't drawing attention to yourself, weren't acting evasively and suspicious. Were acting like "you own the place", and were doing something quite innocuous.


Hence, yes, your situation was among that very small percent where someone wishes to split hairs over silly minutia. How to respond to such flukes is another debate we won't rehash
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Thanx for chiming in maxxkatt. I like how you say "... but for all practical purposes". Because you are probably right: Someone who is at the water's edge, .... and an ebbing rolling wave washes in around his feet, could be *technically* said to be "in the water", right ? BUT SERIOUSLY NOW ... is anyone out there splitting hairs on "inter-tidal zone" versus "got his feet wet" versus wading out, etc... OF COURSE NOT. The only times you'd be hassled is if you were out there with snorkel or scuba.

Yet md'rs will fret themselves silly about this for some reason.
I do use common sense, but do respect the laws. If a property is posted as no trespassing, then I don't even think about hunting it unless I have permissions. Permissions are not that hard to get if you take the time and be honest with the property owner. But if you are a frequent beach hunter, then you should absolutely know the state laws covering your beaches. Especially when hunting high rise condo's and hotels. Sometimes their security know knowing the laws get kind of protective of their beach fronts.
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