zeemang
Forum Supporter
How about having a huge diver down keep away flag made, like 8 feet long so people could see it at distance?
When you say you were told you can't paintball the boats, who told you that and have you verified it is illegal? What statute in your area makes it illegal, and have you read said statute?
When you say you were told you can't paintball the boats, who told you that and have you verified it is illegal? What statute in your area makes it illegal, and have you read said statute?
I have an issue that has been puzzling me for a while and I was hoping for some input and not ridicule. I know it is ultimately a legal matter and if the scenario played out it would be up to a judge.
HOWEVER, it will NEVER come to THIS CONCLUSION so PLEASE everyone stay civil and if you do give your input realize this is just a hypothetical situation.
In Michigan you are allowed to use deadly force IF you feel your life is in danger. That was emphasized over and over in the CCW class I took. So like a car coming at a police officer the officer feels his life is in danger and he can neutralize the threat.
So I am diving in 4 - 6 foot of water. Boaters have to stay 200' away from a dive flag. I have a huge float with a 2' X 2' flag on it. Boaters have NO clue what that flag is and some have come within 3 foot of me.
I bet most know where this is going. But be patient!
I have come up and touched the prop wash of dinghies who fly right by me because I didn't hear them.
I had an idea that I thought was the answer. Have a paintball gun in my float and shoot the nice white boat with paintballs to get the captains attention.
WRONG. I was told I would be arrested by the state police and the sheriff office.
So, I can legally use deadly force to neutralize the threat because the idiot boaters do not know the laws, and we all know ignorance of the law is no excuse to kill someone. BUT, I cannot use non lethal force to get their attention and give their pretty white boat a few different colors.
Does any of this make sense to anyone? I am sure Tom can help me here!
A boat prop hitting me will kill me. I have already been rolled over by the keel of a snailboat. If it would have hit my neck instead of my tank it would have killed me also.
What has been baffling me is I can legally use deadly force, but I am not allowed to use non lethal force to get their attention.
It is hypothetical because I will NEVER have my gun on me or in my float when I am diving. I just want to make that crystal clear to everyone who might want to attack.
Well , there is a certain amount of risk involved in what you do and you enter the water knowing these potential risks. One of the risks is the disregard others may have for your safety and the law. Much like deer hunting in the woods , its illegal to threaten , endanger , assault , or vandalize another hunter in the woods because he is careless , reckless , dangerous , or somehow puts you in possible harm by what he is doing. If you are driving a car and the car next to you puts you in danger , you cant legally grab a paintball gun and paint his windows with it , and you cant slam into him to voice your disapproval. It seems unfair that you cant legally take certain measures to protect yourself but we do these hobbies or activities knowing and accepting the possible risks involved. The law is basically saying that if we cant accept the risk and cant refrain from potentially escalating a bad situation into a worse one then we need to stay home. Non lethal force can potentially turn lethal , or escalate and involve others not even involved. The law isn't perfect but I think that's what they are trying to avoid.
I don't know if I agree with you on all points. So you think if you are hunting and a drunk hunter starts shooting at you thinking you are a deer, the law doesn't allow you to shoot back and neutralize the threat?
I guess if you have cover and can hide while bullets are flying your way you have a chance. Interesting.
I will say that when they made the laws they probably were not thinking of a person diving in 6 foot of water. They were trying to protect divers going down and coming up from being propeller bait. A diver in 6 foot of water is propeller bait the whole time he dives.
I have taken some suggestions to heart.
1. I am going to get a larger dive flag for my boat that has the silhouette of a diver going down in the middle.
2. I am buying a megaphone to keep on my dive float so I can come up and get the boaters attention without trying to yell.
3. I am going to run a camera by the marine patrol and see what they say. I am expecting them to say that a picture will not prove how close they are. POSSIBLY.
Thank you all for your thoughts. I do not dive on weekends unless I am deeper than 10'. If boaters go over me it doesn't bother me. Just when I am coming up. However I come up slowly and keep turning around to make sure no boats are close.
I have been a safe diver since 1979. I intend on staying that way. As I said, those fast rich drunks on dinghies are the ones that really scare me, along with jet skis.
I am a good shot. I still think a few paint balls on a windshield of a white boat would really get the captains attention. How could I possibly miss a windshield at less than 25' with a paintball rifle? But we all know Jet skis and dinghies do not have windshields.
Sometimes what you might think is the perfect answer has flaws!
I am a good shot. I still think a few paint balls on a windshield of a white boat would really get the captains attention. How could I possibly miss a windshield at less than 25' with a paintball rifle? But we all know Jet skis and dinghies do not have windshields.
Have you used paintball guns before? In my experience no 2 shots hit within 5 feet of each other and that's with dry equipment. Add a little spray off the water from wind and there's no telling whose going to get marked! On a few dewy mornings I was sure I would shoot myself if the wind picked up at all.