Army hat pin. Can we rule out Vietnam era?

ToySoldier · Oct 14, 2019

US Army uniform pin. 99% sure for the dress uniform hat. What I`m trying to determine is whether this specific variety could have been issued during the Vietnam war.

I've looked at a number of hat photos from the Korean war era and Vietnam war era. eBay as well as portrait photographs. What I've noticed are some small variations in the design. The top edge of the eagle wings are straight in some (like the one pictured) and some are more curved. Shield has fewer bars and a squarer shape while others have more vertical bars and a point at the bottom of the shield. On some the eagle legs are very thin and others the eagle has thick thighs. In some the tail feather shape is like a fan and others are more diamond shape.

Ive only looked at a dozen examples from Vietnam but haven't seen anu clear examples of the variation in my photo. That's hardly a thorough search, and these are very small differences I'm describing.

I'm wondering if it was common to see these slight variations during the Vietnam era. Were multiple manufacturers churning out these devices with slight variations? Surplus used in early Vietnam years from Korean war?

Yes I know pieces are missing/broken off. The arrows broke off just handling it and i can tell where there was once there was once a banner and circle/medal over the eagle head.

Ultimately,. If there is clear info that would rule out Vietnam era, then I want to know it. So...

No way it's Vietnam war era
Possible Vietnam war era
Absolutely was used Vietnam war era

Thanks in advance.

dickn52 · Oct 14, 2019

Beats me. I served from 68-74 and never say anything like that. NOT that it wasn't there but I never saw one. Every single hat badge I ever saw for enlisted had the rounded shield above the eagle as well.

mysteriousnesss · Oct 14, 2019

Looks like a WW2 Great Seal enlisted hat badge. You're just missing the top part. You're shield is wider though.

ToySoldier · Oct 14, 2019

dickn52 said:
.....Every single hat badge I ever saw for enlisted had the rounded shield above the eagle as well....

Right. I mentioned that there were pieces missing. I could see where they once were before I cleaned it.

ToySoldier · Oct 14, 2019

mysteriousnesss said:
Looks like a WW2 Great Seal enlisted hat badge. You're just missing the top part. You're shield is wider though.

Not only is the shield wider (and more stripes) but look at the top of the eagle's wings. In mine the wings have a straight line. In the WWII you posted the top of the wings have a curve. Maybe that's just my imagination mixed with the way it's been mutilated.

Either way, the shield is clearly different.

I'm just wondering whether there were different suppliers that might explain why you'd see these slight differences during the same era. Or, if subtle changes were made over time and surplus was still being sold from one era to the next.

ToySoldier · Oct 14, 2019

dickn52 said:
Beats me. I served from 68-74 and never say anything like that. NOT that it wasn't there but I never saw one. Every single hat badge I ever saw for enlisted had the rounded shield above the eagle as well.

Oh, a follow up question. This might be dumb question, but here it goes anyway since you were there: Did enlisted (private first class in particular) Army infantry take their dress uniform with them to Vietnam? Peaked visor hat, jacket and tie, etc....

ToySoldier · Oct 15, 2019

OK, both of the below were on confirmed WWII hats. You can see that the second one matches the one I found with the wider shield, more pointed tail feathers, and (I think) straighter wings.

I know the eagle hat pin was still part of the dress uniform in Vietnam, but I'm trying to figure out if both variations were still being issued during the Vietnam war.

If the second one with the wider shield was NOT still being issued in 1967-1968 then that rules out the possibility it belonged to a specific person that previously lived on the property I detected.

dickn52 · Oct 15, 2019

ToySoldier said:
Oh, a follow up question. This might be dumb question, but here it goes anyway since you were there: Did enlisted (private first class in particular) Army infantry take their dress uniform with them to Vietnam? Peaked visor hat, jacket and tie, etc....

Not sure about everyone else, but I didn't. Flew in Khakis both ways. Froze my ass off in AK when we deplaned for fueling.

ToySoldier · Oct 15, 2019

dickn52 said:
Not sure about everyone else, but I didn't. Flew in Khakis both ways. Froze my ass off in AK when we deplaned for fueling.

Thanks for the info. I'm trying to see if I have to rule out the possibility that this belonged to a specific person who lived at the property with his parents.

waltr · Oct 15, 2019

This looks like it:
I googled "vintage us army hat pins" to find this image.

WWII

You might want to look into the person's father or uncle as the owned of this pin.

ToySoldier · Oct 15, 2019

waltr said:
This looks like it:
I googled "vintage us army hat pins" to find this image.

WWII

You might want to look into the person's father or uncle as the owned of this pin.

Thanks. I do know the dad was in the Navy in WWII. I'm going to keep poking around to see if I can find any examples of that larger shield variation still being issued during Vietnam. I have seen an example as late as the Korean war. If I can find one example of it during the Vietnam era, then that opens the possibility. Unfortunately, most of the dress uniform portrait photos, including the one of this particular guy, aren't high enough quality to see the differences.

ToySoldier · Oct 15, 2019

waltr said:
This looks like it:
I googled "vintage us army hat pins" to find this image.

WWII

You might want to look into the person's father or uncle as the owned of this pin.

One challenge with dating pins and buttons that were issued during more than one era is that many examples online are shown without the hat or uniform or any provenance. Sellers wanting to make it more desirable will say "WWII" without any proof. So, we know the pin was used in WWII because there are examples with good documentation, but the question is whether it was also used later. The best examples are on the hat, such as in a portrait photo that can be dated to a particular war. Or, the hat can be dated by design or a label on the inside. Or, at a minimum, the person at least says how they know the era.

waltr · Oct 15, 2019

ToySoldier said:
One challenge with dating pins and buttons that were issued during more than one era is that many examples online are shown without the hat or uniform or any provenance. Sellers wanting to make it more desirable will say "WWII" without any proof. So, we know the pin was used in WWII because there are examples with good documentation, but the question is whether it was also used later. The best examples are on the hat, such as in a portrait photo that can be dated to a particular war. Or, the hat can be dated by design or a label on the inside. Or, at a minimum, the person at least says how they know the era.

Fully agree on all your points particular about the c**p sellers list on items.

Hoping you can find some better info. Putting someone's name to an item is always great especially if related.

mysteriousnesss · Oct 15, 2019

To follow up I agree with everyone here. This is likely WW2 or earlier. Could even be WW1 based on the spacing of the bars in the shield. I think you definitely have something earlier than the Vietnam War.

Army hat pin. Can we rule out Vietnam era?

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