Lets talk about Delta Pitch!

Mud-puppy

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Theres been some interest lately on this Delta Pitch subject with the FTP/Tek users...so under 'Roberts Rules of Order', lets just open the discussion...Its February after all...

Nearest I can tell, using the Googly search injun, 'Delta Pitch' was a Dave Johnson concept...For those of you that dont know Dave J's pedigree, he is in a small fabric of Detector Circuit designers, like about 3...He started out very old school with Flintstone gear, a Simpson 101 meter, some mica, a sharp piece of Dragon Glass (black obsidian) and a roll of 3M tape, the Philips screwdriver hadnt even been invented yet, there was only one flat blade screwdriver available per County, at the Library, so he used American Chestnut wooden pegs to hold everything together...back in the 80s this is...

Anyway, he built upon knowledge gained and worked on the design of those traffic light coils you drive over every day at stoplights...You can thank him for that, He is responsible for those...

Succinctly put, He is THE 'Professor Albus Dumbledore' of Hogwarts Metal Detecting School, except instead of giving flowery and cryptic dinner party speeches, he actually DESIGNED and built some of these magic wands we use!

So in the manual, Dave J says:..."For optimum performance, Run "Delta Pitch" ...Who am I to question? A Muggle? Ron Weasley? or worse yet, a Minelabber?:laughing:

Now I dont know if I am correct on who thought of and designed Delta Pitch, I may be talking out of my @ss like normal, (98% probability) making assumptions with little to go on, but y'all seem to have a discerning ear, understand the regional dialectic subtleties, and are vibrant and fluent participators in 'out your @ss' Lingo..

I found a post or two from 2007 where Dave J chimed in on the DP mention...I'd like to know though, just for future accuracy and credit given..

Where did Delta Pitch come from? Who was the designer? Nikolai Tesla? Oppenheimer?

Anyway...open debate...do some digging and lets chase down this subject! It should be exciting! Like flying on a broom in a Quidditch match chasing the Golden Snitch! At the very least, we should be able to knock down a damned old Quaffle or two by Lunchtime?...I mean, who cant? A noobie MInelabber or an inexperienced Tesoro Teeboy thinking rebar overload?

Quaffles are as big as a football for Keks sake!! :laughing:
 
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Ok, weird...I always thought delta pitch was referring to William Arthur "Candy" Cummings, in the Baseball Hall of Fame and the inventor of the curveball.

Delta:
Mathematics... A finite increment in a variable.


"Cummings is often credited with being the first pitcher to throw a curveball, reportedly in 1867 at Worcester, Massachusetts while playing for the Brooklyn Excelsiors; some sources say later with the Brooklyn Stars. It was not until the Stars acquired catcher Nat Hicks that Cummings was able to use his curveball. Most catchers of his era stood twenty to twenty-five feet behind the batter, which made it impossible to field a curveball. It was Hicks' catching technique of standing directly behind the batter that allowed Cummings to introduce his curveball.The introduction of the curveball radically changed pitching, and also changed the way catchers fielded their position".
.

On the other hand when it relates to our detectors in the top F Series and T2 it is the fastest of the tones that are processed or at the very least it is supposed to be the only one tied directly to the numbers on the screen...for those that are into using both features.

I do, and although I have tried it, practiced it and am getting used to it 1 tone, monotone, is still my favorite disc tone choice for hunting in heavy trash and iron.
That also seems pretty responsive to me and much less mentally fatiguing listening to just that one tone.
The unmasking abilities of DP has recently been expounded upon and even though I seem to be doing great unmasking with 1 tone there might be some advantage to DP in my future...once I spend more time getting used to it.
It works but also a little bit more fatiguing to me with the million signals I get in my hunting sites and I think a little bit more chatty in higher EMI filled sites.
The lower tone choices might just deal with EMI better in my experience and according to Dave J.
Then again I like to use pretty high gain and thresh so somewhere in there there might be a good balance of stability, ID ability and unmasking ability with the right combination of settings.
I am experimenting now with some really high settings in gain, thresh and disc that seems abnormally quiet but is producing some surprising results.
I switched to DP off of monotone for a bit during my experimentation so I will endeavor to use it more and see what develops.

Also still working on my curveball.
 
Its raining, going to rain for two days.

The F75 and the Etrac is benched. But the AT Pro is up. Oh, after the rain hunting gets really good. Researching places to hunt now.

I did not know DP is tied to the VDI. But will give it a chance next time Im out.

Since the internet went public I dont put much faith in research on here. I only believe half of what I see and nothing I hear. Thats too much I think but its a good habit.

Mr. Johnson is a good read and I have read others in field. Knowing how some of the basic machines was set up would help folks understand how the detector works better. It is still a guess at best letting a machine do the guessing is cheating as far as Im concerned. But if your not cheating your not trying.

DP being linked to the VDI sounds more like a base program for the others to be developed from is more likely. You can only guess as these would be trade secrets. I laugh as its secrets from the same technology that lets you build a detector out of a calculator or use the magtometer in your cell phone as detector.

What I have found is the most popular detectors have been tweaked to make the best guess. That is why all metal mode and the muscle between your ears is the best discriminator. With that said, hunting by sound and VDI is the best to hunt no matter what mode. But single and DP tone tells you something is there.

Processor speed would be a better at id a target. So DE mode is the fastest. BP mode is the deepest discrimination on a coin. All Metal still is the king of all modes.

These preset programs, like DP mode allows you to see coin sized targets as most modes do. So what are you walking over? What are you leaving behind. Im glad the DP mode has been put in the F75. I have used it with success. Not sure I would use it for small gold and silver. But coins it is ok. Even my doctor has asked why my digging arm is bigger than my other arm, the F75 is naturally deep lol.

This is what I believe from years of using my F75. The technology has limits, and the F75 maximizes those limits on a coin sized target. Relics and dimes rock on the F75. I dont think that was by accident.

Does any relic hunters want to chime in about DP mode? Or some of those guys in bad soil. I would like to hear from them also. Most topics have been beat to death. I missed this one lol.
 
Delta pitch is probably the most unused or unspoke of feature on the fishers.Most people get a fisher and never fully open it up to its fullest potential,,They are probably the most tailorable of all when you consider everything the fisher machines offer.
But delta pitch is the most imformative audio in trash I've used...It does take some getting usto,and not months but a few hours and you'll get it.Those tones just stand out on good targets.Like Mudpuppy said,you can tell a quarter from a dime,and a pulltab from a nickel.You just gotta put the time in and learn,but once you do it'll all fall in place.
 
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Theres been some interest lately on this Delta Pitch subject with the FTP/Tek users...so under 'Roberts Rules of Order', lets just open the discussion...Its February after all...

Nearest I can tell, using the Googly search injun, 'Delta Pitch' was a Dave Johnson concept...For those of you that dont know Dave J's pedigree, he is in a small fabric of Detector Circuit designers, like about 3...He started out very old school with Flintstone gear, a Simpson 101 meter, some mica, a sharp piece of Dragon Glass (black obsidian) and a roll of 3M tape, the Philips screwdriver hadnt even been invented yet, there was only one flat blade screwdriver available per County, at the Library, so he used American Chestnut wooden pegs to hold everything together...back in the 80s this is...

Anyway, he built upon knowledge gained and worked on the design of those traffic light coils you drive over every day at stoplights...You can thank him for that, He is responsible for those...

Succinctly put, He is THE 'Professor Albus Dumbledore' of Hogwarts Metal Detecting School, except instead of giving flowery and cryptic dinner party speeches, he actually DESIGNED and built some of these magic wands we use!

So in the manual, Dave J says:..."For optimum performance, Run "Delta Pitch" ...Who am I to question? A Muggle? Ron Weasley? or worse yet, a Minelabber?:laughing:

Now I dont know if I am correct on who thought of and designed Delta Pitch, I may be talking out of my @ss like normal, (98% probability) making assumptions with little to go on, but y'all seem to have a discerning ear, understand the regional dialectic subtleties, and are vibrant and fluent participators in 'out your @ss' Lingo..

I found a post or two from 2007 where Dave J chimed in on the DP mention...I'd like to know though, just for future accuracy and credit given..

Where did Delta Pitch come from? Who was the designer? Nikolai Tesla? Oppenheimer?

Anyway...open debate...do some digging and lets chase down this subject! It should be exciting! Like flying on a broom in a Quidditch match chasing the Golden Snitch! At the very least, we should be able to knock down a damned old Quaffle or two by Lunchtime?...I mean, who cant? A noobie MInelabber or an inexperienced Tesoro Teeboy thinking rebar overload?

Quaffles are as big as a football for Keks sake!! :laughing:
:saywhat:
 
Was camping one time and found out something really interesting about Delta Pitch.

It will drive the coyotes nuts, and they will howl the entire time it is on lol.

Just wanted to throw that out there.
 
:dontgetit:Me either.......

You guy's Delta Pitch (dp), must be different from mine. Tell a dime from a quarter (3 tones does that), tell a zinc from a copper (3 tones does that), tell a nickel from a tab (well that's questionable). I'm just not hearing anything but a bunch of jumbled up squabble. Quick way to hunt ? I tried for 20 minutes today, and once again, gave up ????? This is not getting easier? What the hell are you guys hearing? :(:no::(
 
:dontgetit:Me either.......

You guy's Delta Pitch (dp), must be different from mine. Tell a dime from a quarter (3 tones does that), tell a zinc from a copper (3 tones does that), tell a nickel from a tab (well that's questionable). I'm just not hearing anything but a bunch of jumbled up squabble. Quick way to hunt ? I tried for 20 minutes today, and once again, gave up ????? This is not getting easier? What the hell are you guys hearing? :(:no::(


We are hearing different frequency in the tones over different targets.
Iron is low, foil is higher, nickel even higher and so on, a sliding scale from low to high.
1-99 on the VDI numbers, I guess you can say in DP there are 99 different tones...sort of.
Unlike multi tones, where a dime and a quarter has the same high tone, there is a difference between a dime and a quarter when you get enough practice at listening.
Not jumbled up, specific tones for every target in the conductivity range.

Get several targeted put them on the ground in order of conductivity...Iron, foil and so on all the way up to a dime and a quarter.
Then swing over them.
 
We are hearing different frequency in the tones over different targets.
Iron is low, foil is higher, nickel even higher and so on, a sliding scale from low to high.
1-99 on the VDI numbers, I guess you can say in DP there are 99 different tones...sort of.
Unlike multi tones, where a dime and a quarter has the same high tone, there is a difference between a dime and a quarter when you get enough practice at listening.
Not jumbled up, specific tones for every target in the conductivity range.

Get several targeted put them on the ground in order of conductivity...Iron, foil and so on all the way up to a dime and a quarter.
Then swing over them.

Done exactly that, but how do you take that to the field ?
 
Done exactly that, but how do you take that to the field ?

Hey...take a zinc, a Chucky cheese token, a normal copper P, a dime, a Canadian P, A Q, a dollar coin, and a half dollar....


In DP you should very easily hear all the differences in those high tone targets..well, the copper P and D take a bit of time to get used too since they are so close, but for sure you will hear that Canadian P that is higher than a D but lower than a Q, and right smack in where a silver ring likes to hide...

You will also clearly hear a CC token, higher than a zinc, but lower than a copper P....anyway..thats how it works in the field...you dont have to dig any scrap unless you are curious, ...you can just snipe Q's all day long if you want to...you can pass on the Zincs, unless one sounds a bit different than the norm, but close...all this you know from the DP audio, you dont have to look at the screen or think much about whether to dig or not...
 
Sounds like like a fancy way to say they expanded the number of target ID segments.

They just assigned a different tone to each of the 99 segments is all...

I dont have good enough hearing to distinguish all 99...only @3 apart...the rest you have to 'hear' the shape and composition by working the coil...either raising it or hopping it...you can tell a D from a P based upon this...the P's sound "bigger"...the Ds are crisp and tight...even though their TID is about exactly the same, there is a tone difference...same with an aluminum screw off or bottle cap...tone difference...

What you do want to hear are the 'seldom heard' tones...down in the tab range, or just a bit 'stranger' than a normal zinc, either by tone or size.....just a tad off from a normal..if a guy is hunting gold that is.

Just wanted to share for general Forum knowledge that DP is a feature that has some merit...we all hear and process things differently, so finding tones a person understands and is comfortable with is key ..since this is an 'audio primary' Sport....
 
Done exactly that, but how do you take that to the field ?

It is like 4 tone with a ton of other tones filling in the gaps at all VDI numbers.

Listen, then learn to tell the difference....or don't if you don't like it.
Some use DP all the time, some use it once in awhile and some never use it.
Just another option, use what you prefer.
I have used all the tone options and found great stuff with every one.
 
Done exactly that, but how do you take that to the field ?

Heres a little more...Like my normal kind of hunt that might make Real World sense for using DP......

So there you are, flying along at a Sports park, great big area, banging some nice clad numbers at 3-4" depth, fresh drops even..finding the heavy Drop Zones....theres thousands of targets! gatorade foil, tabs, bobby pins...tarp grommets...pop up tent stakes, you know, the normal active Sportsfield kind of stuff, but amongst it all, there IS a LOT of clad, and its been there for a while...

So you get to thinking..."With all this Poo, theres gotta be a Pony in here someplace!" So you start paying very close attention to the tones of Gold...as well as looking around at the area in general trying to think where it might be hiding...All the signs are telling you theres a high probability....Hunting heads up, by tones alone, not looking at the screen, just flying along and harvesting clad for gas money but thinking about the Gold....

So through it all, you hit a strange signal, not quite a normal tab, but right there in that tab tone zone...Now, if a guy was running anything else other than DP, that tone would have sounded exactly like all the rest...but its just a little bit different, and your ears easily heard it...It might just be a half tab, or a folded over one, or one of those Ace Bandage clippy things, or a solid nickel, or a foil wad...but you heard its subtle difference...especially a solid nickel...you cant stab it fast, a nice disc like that? It could be a gold ring!?

Out of curiosity, you stoop and fast stab...when you cant hit a target fast, you slow down, on account of rings are hollow and harder to stab than a tab or Ace clippy thing....so thats it...in the Real World how DP tones can help a guy...You dont have to dig all that other junk, you already know what it is, since you have learned its tones and signature, ...you just snipe through an area fast, bust out all the coins, leave the trash, thinking gold...

Its just super fast in an area like I described...You dont have to think or evaluate a TID visually...that takes too long...

I know you have seen this shot before, but evaluate the Coins/hr...No Way can a guy pull this amount of coins and very little or no trash without running Delta Pitch in a trashed out Active Sportspark!
 

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You are going to make me try to use this Delta pitch. I am in for try finding gold rings. I have found one 14 K ring this year already but am wanting more.:blink:
 
wow you dirt guys live complicated lives ,out on the beach where i live if i got caught looking at my vdi i would get slapped and escorted off the beach .Gold rings come in all kinds of sizes and structures thus many different conductivities i worry if you guys try to eliminate one type of poptop your going to eliminate some gold
 
wow you dirt guys live complicated lives ,out on the beach where i live if i got caught looking at my vdi i would get slapped and escorted off the beach .Gold rings come in all kinds of sizes and structures thus many different conductivities i worry if you guys try to eliminate one type of poptop your going to eliminate some gold

If a person lives in an area where he gets to hunt both, beach and dirt, you get to take skills learned in one over to the other...then, if you get to wade inland lakes/creeks, whatnot, both of the skills combine seamlessly...Its like a trashy park hunt except in the water...up here in West Michigan, we have it pretty good on all counts...a guy can do all three in one day.
 
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