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  #21  
Old 09-22-2014, 09:50 PM
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Awesome!!

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  #22  
Old 09-23-2014, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bwlarge View post
Don't know what to think of this. Been a member for a yr and a half. I've gained a lot of knowledge and bought several items. I check in several times a day to read about others finds, but dont find a whole lot myself that is worth posting about. I was thinking of selling some things to try and get a new coil for the at pro, but I guess I'll have to sell elsewhere. I don't post very much on any forums. I've been a member on one since 08, and have less than 300 posts. This is a bummer for sure.
I find myself pretty much in the same category as you bwlarge. I don't post replies to every thread that I read and try to only do so when I feel I have something worthwhile to add. But the last time I looked I had 17 positive feedback for sales, purchases, or trades on the classifieds. I agree that something like this needed be done to protect others from scammers, but I think that ones feedback should be taken into account also.

Rules are rules so I guess we'll just have to abide by them and make more posts.

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  #23  
Old 09-23-2014, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rlt9999 View post
I find myself pretty much in the same category as you bwlarge. I don't post replies to every thread that I read and try to only do so when I feel I have something worthwhile to add. But the last time I looked I had 17 positive feedback for sales, purchases, or trades on the classifieds. I agree that something like this needed be done to protect others from scammers, but I think that ones feedback should be taken into account also.

Rules are rules so I guess we'll just have to abide by them and make more posts.
rlt9999,

Sorry you and other good members have gotten caught in the middle. We wrestled with this change for a few weeks.

What we found in a couple of these scammer instances was that the scammer cleverly created multiple accounts, with different email addresses and used some WiFi hot spots and or a proxy server to hide his tracks. For all apparent purposes, the accounts appeared to be from different persons. Then the scammer proceeded to create several for sale threads under one of the account and buy them from the other account. Of course, the sale was bogus. The "buyer" then proceeded to leave positive feedback for the "seller". Do this a couple of times and BINGO, they now have credible looking positive feedback from prior sales and now they can start looking for someone to scam.

It took us days doing forensics, sleuthing and other techniques to finally put it together and get rid of them. We simply can not afford that level of investigative effort on a routine basis. That is why we prefer the approach of time as a member and significant post count. A scammer doesn't want to spend that kind of effort in preparation to run his scam and instead will go some other place where it will be easier for him to do it.

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  #24  
Old 09-23-2014, 01:34 PM
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[QUOTE=grinsebring;2167516][QUOTE=BeepZilla;2167470]Just curios as to what constitutes a significant post.

I agree, / ,/ nice ring,


These kinds of posts have no substance, and are used solely to increase post count.

Dont agree with Grinsebring. Should be able to post whatever, within the rules.

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  #25  
Old 09-23-2014, 04:07 PM
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I have no problem with the rules...I don't post often as I don't get to hunt as often as I would like , I think it is important to build a level of trust between the users & I will surely abide by the rules. I enjoy reading about others finds & have learned a lot from members here.
I have bought a few items here & will continue to do so as often as the lines cross ....what one is willing to sell for & the other is willing to pay.
Many have kindly shared there skills & observations & I will do the same when I acquire some skills...LOL.

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  #26  
Old 09-23-2014, 06:27 PM
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How about also requiring a picture of the person's username written on an index card to prevent people from stealing pictures of the detector off the internet?

Yes I know that can be faked also....but still a good security feature...

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  #27  
Old 10-04-2014, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudy View post
rlt9999,

Sorry you and other good members have gotten caught in the middle. We wrestled with this change for a few weeks.

What we found in a couple of these scammer instances was that the scammer cleverly created multiple accounts, with different email addresses and used some WiFi hot spots and or a proxy server to hide his tracks. For all apparent purposes, the accounts appeared to be from different persons. Then the scammer proceeded to create several for sale threads under one of the account and buy them from the other account. Of course, the sale was bogus. The "buyer" then proceeded to leave positive feedback for the "seller". Do this a couple of times and BINGO, they now have credible looking positive feedback from prior sales and now they can start looking for someone to scam.

It took us days doing forensics, sleuthing and other techniques to finally put it together and get rid of them. We simply can not afford that level of investigative effort on a routine basis. That is why we prefer the approach of time as a member and significant post count. A scammer doesn't want to spend that kind of effort in preparation to run his scam and instead will go some other place where it will be easier for him to do it.
It's amazing to me someone would take the time to do this. However, 6 months + 200 posts would not stop this. It would just slow it down. I see a guy that takes the time to set up multiple accounts for feedback purposes would probably be the guy that waits 6 months before scamming again... Of course the rules can eliminate some scamming, but I think it traps more legit members than bad apples. There is no substitute for due diligence.
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  #28  
Old 10-04-2014, 12:55 PM
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[QUOTE=Silverfishin;2169108][QUOTE=grinsebring;2167516]
Originally Posted by BeepZilla View post
Just curios as to what constitutes a significant post.

I agree, / ,/ nice ring,


These kinds of posts have no substance, and are used solely to increase post count.

Dont agree with Grinsebring. Should be able to post whatever, within the rules.
You can post whatever you want within the rules, but please try and make it
at least 5 words long. Not trying to be a wiseburger here, but I can show you a dozen consecutive posts like the one's I mentioned someone did in 15 minutes to fall in the 200 count.

You have posted some interesting threads, how would you feel if someone responded in his post to you this: "K" Just saying, a single emoticon has passed for a post a thousand times here. Nobody would think twice about calling that anything but a legit post when you have a couple hundred or a couple thousand under your belt.

If you have 9 total posts that you acquired just by classifieds alone and you start with that sort of behavior just to meet the criteria so you can use the forums (Yours and mine) classified just to sell stuff and contribute nothing else to hobby, well that's why that "significant" post number is there. I shouldn't think you would agree to someone taking advantage of a situation
in that manner. If you do, we then agree to disagree..Gil

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  #29  
Old 10-04-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudy View post
rlt9999,

Sorry you and other good members have gotten caught in the middle. We wrestled with this change for a few weeks.

What we found in a couple of these scammer instances was that the scammer cleverly created multiple accounts, with different email addresses and used some WiFi hot spots and or a proxy server to hide his tracks. For all apparent purposes, the accounts appeared to be from different persons. Then the scammer proceeded to create several for sale threads under one of the account and buy them from the other account. Of course, the sale was bogus. The "buyer" then proceeded to leave positive feedback for the "seller". Do this a couple of times and BINGO, they now have credible looking positive feedback from prior sales and now they can start looking for someone to scam.

It took us days doing forensics, sleuthing and other techniques to finally put it together and get rid of them. We simply can not afford that level of investigative effort on a routine basis. That is why we prefer the approach of time as a member and significant post count. A scammer doesn't want to spend that kind of effort in preparation to run his scam and instead will go some other place where it will be easier for him to do it.
I just tested a proxy server on this account - too easy to get and too easy to change your IP with. A good recipe for scammers. Changes your IP with a click of a button, and covers dirty tracks.

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  #30  
Old 10-04-2014, 08:02 PM
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Rudy, There are two sides to every coin as they say..Innocent until proven guilty is the standard of justice here in America..but so is freedom..we are free to join this forum and obey the rules and we have the free choice not to join..6 months and 200 posts may give some folks a feeling of trust but the reality is that it has no bearing on the honesty of the member..there is no way to guarantee the reputation and credibility of anyone based on time and posts..Perhaps there could be a more strict qualification to sell any merchandise..like submit to a criminal background check..all those who submit and pass are free to sell as they please..all others may purchase but not sell.. but even that idea has faults..just because someone passes a criminal background check does not mean they are not a thief..it just means they have never been caught or convicted..take for example the infamous known gangster of the prohibition era Meyer Lansky..crooked as a hook but never convicted of a crime and never spent a day in jail..One of the reasons I joined was for the generous classified section..I can pass a criminal background check..I am bondable and have done work inside a federal reserve bank vault..yet I have to wait 6 months to sell anything here..just my two cents.
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  #31  
Old 10-04-2014, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by joe dert View post
Rudy, There are two sides to every coin as they say..Innocent until proven guilty is the standard of justice here in America..but so is freedom..we are free to join this forum and obey the rules and we have the free choice not to join..6 months and 200 posts may give some folks a feeling of trust but the reality is that it has no bearing on the honesty of the member..there is no way to guarantee the reputation and credibility of anyone based on time and posts..Perhaps there could be a more strict qualification to sell any merchandise..like submit to a criminal background check..all those who submit and pass are free to sell as they please..all others may purchase but not sell.. but even that idea has faults..just because someone passes a criminal background check does not mean they are not a thief..it just means they have never been caught or convicted..take for example the infamous known gangster of the prohibition era Meyer Lansky..crooked as a hook but never convicted of a crime and never spent a day in jail..One of the reasons I joined was for the generous classified section..I can pass a criminal background check..I am bondable and have done work inside a federal reserve bank vault..yet I have to wait 6 months to sell anything here..just my two cents.

No one on this side of the table would even suggest 6 months and 200 posts would make the system foolproof. I for one would expect there to be a snag
somewhere along the line. Somebody will find a way to slip through a crack.
Multiple IPs and screen names could very well find a way in. The only thing is,
everyone of them would need 200 posts and a wait of 6 months. Why would anyone (he says with tongue in cheek) want to commit to all that work when he or she could slide right into another forum with less stringent
requirements.....If they could find one. Oh there is one, but I don't think management would even respond to a complaint from a victim.

We have 4 administrators and 3 mods with permissions to intercept bad or suspect players. It was getting to the point where we had a report of a misdealing almost daily. Some were shown on open forum, but what you didn't see were the ones that were not open to everyone's view.

None of us likes turning away established members with a 100% + performance in iTrader because of post counts and time served. Time and post counts heal all wounds.

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  #32  
Old 10-04-2014, 09:51 PM
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OR.. I'm thinking someone who's been here long enough and/or has a certain amount of positive feedbacks can be "forum verified" per se.. As in have a special title or logo showing they are trusted.

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  #33  
Old 10-04-2014, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ParkHunter View post
OR.. I'm thinking someone who's been here long enough and/or has a certain amount of positive feedbacks can be "forum verified" per se.. As in have a special title or logo showing they are trusted.
+1

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  #34  
Old 10-04-2014, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ParkHunter View post
OR.. I'm thinking someone who's been here long enough and/or has a certain amount of positive feedbacks can be "forum verified" per se.. As in have a special title or logo showing they are trusted.
Who wants to volunteer to draw the line?

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  #35  
Old 10-04-2014, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by grinsebring View post
Who wants to volunteer to draw the line?
As in? If about my suggestion, I'm 110% in for it.

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  #36  
Old 10-04-2014, 11:28 PM
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I think the forum rules as of now are good. What a person needs to concentrate on is how they pay for an item and how it is shipped. That is where you should be able to protect yourself. Insurance,paypal,delivery confirmation etc.
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  #37  
Old 10-05-2014, 01:50 PM
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[QUOTE=grinsebring;2177687]No one on this side of the table would even suggest 6 months and 200 posts would make the system foolproof. I for one would expect there to be a snag
somewhere along the line. Somebody will find a way to slip through a crack.
Multiple IPs and screen names could very well find a way in. The only thing is,
everyone of them would need 200 posts and a wait of 6 months. Why would anyone (he says with tongue in cheek) want to commit to all that work when he or she could slide right into another forum with less stringent
requirements.....If they could find one. Oh there is one, but I don't think management would even respond to a complaint from a victim.

We have 4 administrators and 3 mods with permissions to intercept bad or suspect players. It was getting to the point where we had a report of a misdealing almost daily. Some were shown on open forum, but what you didn't see were the ones that were not open to everyone's view.

None of us likes turning away established members with a 100% + performance in iTrader because of post counts and time served. Time and post counts heal all wounds.[/QUOTEI am not angry..there has to be some kind of rules..and no system is perfect..something strict like a background check might weed out many of the scammers though..
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  #38  
Old 10-05-2014, 02:07 PM
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If you don't like the rules then there is always ebay. Nobody ever gets scammed there
The rules have been changed and it now seems like the moderators are being attacked for the aftermath of scamming scumbags. Don't let the scammers win. It's bad enough that they have ripped off members here but I am afraid that too much complaining could lead to dealer-only classifieds. You might say ; " no problem, I will just go to another MD site".
Well guess what? Those same scammers will be there if they haven't been already and this problem will continue. I am not a moderator, nor have I ever been one and seeing the selfish complaining that has been posted as a result of the moderators only trying to help on here reminds me as to why I wouldn't want to be one. Put yourself in their shoes for a minute. Better yet, put yourself in the shoes of the members that have been scammed. It's only 200 posts folks.There is no perfect solution to this situation. If you think that this is so unfair then go start your own forum and make your own rules. It's a free country

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  #39  
Old 10-05-2014, 02:14 PM
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I've seen classified sections closed for sillier reasons than buyers not using due diligence and protecting themselves. While I believe the new hurdles won't stop unscrupulous sellers, it's better than not having a classified section at all.
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  #40  
Old 10-09-2014, 08:45 AM
joe dert joe dert is offline
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I think my post was misunderstood..I agree with rules..I just think they should be more strict..like a criminal background check for selling anything..that might be the best way to weed out the dirtbags..no system is perfect but that combined with a waiting/posting rule may help..
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