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  #81  
Old 02-05-2018, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Safedweller View post
shipped to 4 years ago and do not do business with individuals. If you do not have a tax ID #, we do not want your material. Go sell it to a pay shop for 30% less than we pay.
I sure hope these hangry individuals destroyed our paperwork with our drivers license and SS# on them. This is also why nobody who lives in Texas likes Dallas. You want kind people go to Ft. Worth.

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  #82  
Old 02-05-2018, 06:47 AM
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If this stays on the internet then ARA isnt what should be discussed...... American Recycling Associates is....... we'd like people to be able to properly look them up when doing a search. I for one am disappointed the owner didnt take the high road on this one.....i liked dealing with the family business, nice people. At least if that was the owner he confirmed a few things.

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  #83  
Old 02-05-2018, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dewcon View post
If this stays on the internet then ARA isnt what should be discussed...... American Recycling Associates is....... we'd like people to be able to properly look them up when doing a search. I for one am disappointed the owner didnt take the high road on this one.....i liked dealing with the family business, nice people. At least if that was the owner he confirmed a few things.
Good point. Best to use ARAGOLD.com. Oddly they left all the warm and fuzzy stuff on their website about the previous owners. Even though those people are gone

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  #84  
Old 02-05-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Safedweller View post
We are not the same business that you
shipped to 4 years ago and do not do business with individuals. If you do not have a tax ID #, we do not want your material. Go sell it to a pay shop for 30% less than we pay.
LOL. Because no-one on this forum have EINs and none of us frequent other sites and forums that their soon to be ex-customers frequent, right? Takes a real genius to start an account on a huge forum, make an ass of themselves and lose money in the process. You know they patted themselves on the back for that post too. "Told them what for..." "Companies" with attitudes like this, rather in public or private dealings, rarely last.

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  #85  
Old 02-05-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Oldsjunkie View post
LOL. Because no-one on this forum have EINs and none of us frequent other sites and forums that their soon to be ex-customers frequent, right? Takes a real genius to start an account on a huge forum, make an ass of themselves and lose money in the process. You know they patted themselves on the back for that post too. "Told them what for..." "Companies" with attitudes like this, rather in public or private dealings, rarely last.
Agreed...short sightedness and a deep seated self imposed pissant hatred attitude?...on Gold? Money generally follows the path of least resistance....Grandpa said, "You mind the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves"...Business 101..the guy had the chance to carve out a nice little niche, but no...He must think his Pawn shop and Cash for Gold dealers will remain loyal to him...?

No...we woulda been though, through thick and thin...with a little free respect given a Brother? a bit of 'hey hows it hanging?' Brand building? Strange...Oh well, the World needs ditch diggers too... We got gold waiting here for somebody...

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  #86  
Old 02-05-2018, 12:05 PM
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My problem with the new owners isn't with who or how they choose to do business. It is America after all and a person can conduct their business however they choose to do so.
Its the abusive emails and outright contempt for potential customers that has me shaking my head. If I had a business that needed their services, I would look elsewhere (even at a loss) to avoid doing business with people of this character.

If someone will abuse you in one way, it isn't a stretch to imagine them doing you dirty in other ways too. Character Matters.


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  #87  
Old 02-05-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by KinTN View post
Character Matters.


.

While I definitely share your view and I'm sure a large amount of our forum brethren feel the same, that seems to be less and less the view of our modern society overall...

I'm hopeful that those of us with a little character, compassion and principle can overturn this trend. HH!

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  #88  
Old 02-05-2018, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Slimpickuns View post
Looks like Midwest Refineries will be picking up a lot of business...
So how is Midwest? I have been patiently following this thread and have had my eye on Midwest for a while.

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  #89  
Old 02-05-2018, 10:55 PM
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I have not personally used Midwest, though my gold refining mentor uses them almost exclusively for powders as he feels they do him the best service. Their rates are on par with most medium size buyers.

You can make good money with a 98% spot buy. You have to have cash flow, and good analytical capacity to know what you are buying. One, there is silver in karat gold....two, you will likely get silver and low grade gold from the same sellers. Silver payout is usually only 90% of spot, and low grade gold (gold filled) is even lower. You don't make that money by buying 1 oz of karat at a time, but you also don't turn it away or treat it like !!!!. Not a lot of people know PM buying/selling, and your best advertising is word of mouth. Plus, you never know when a guy selling you an ounce of gold is going to come back with ten pounds of sterling...so from a business standpoint, it's best not to insult the customer.

In the end, you only get paid on what's in the final ingot, but there are a lot more diplomatic ways of communicating that. As it was said, it is a hard business...because you often end up disappointing people.

So I hope this isn't considered advertising...because frankly, it's still a hobby for me. My gold refining mentor is a buyer in SE MI. If anyone local needs a place to sell PM's, I can introduce you. He regularly pays 98% on karat gold with no melt or assay fees. Melted in front of you, assayed in front of you. If you don't like the offer he gives, you leave with your ingot. It's another family owned business that very purposely has no web presence. If you've got a little bit but not a lot, I'm a buyer as well, but at a little lower rate (but still better than the coin shop)

With that said, there are mom and pop melt shops like this all over the place, but they are hard to find. They serve as an intermediary between the pawn shops, karat buyers, jewelry shops, etc...and places like metalor or midwest. You have to look pretty hard to find them. When you sell to the big guys, you really are sort of a pain...they still want to provide a good service to you, but it is harder to get a good melt on 30 grams than it is 300 grams.

With small amounts, you'll almost always get spot or above on Ebay, but then have to deduct the final value fees.

Now, for any metal sale, you should be getting three numbers. You should be told your total before melt weight, your after melt weight and your purity. I personally ask for a copy of the XRF as well, since I find it interesting. You are only paid on your after melt weight obviously, but you shouldn't lose much weight, even with most stones. My guess is that it was a cold melt, and there was a bead in the slag...it very well could have been an honest mistake, with a really crappy delivery.

To better explain that, when you melt the gold, you will add borax and a little bit of lime. These will dissolve any impurities, and they will float on top of the gold. When you go to pour your melt, if the slag is not liquid enough, or if you aren't fast enough, sometimes you can get a majority of the melt in one pool, and another small pool (or multiple) hung up in the slag. You won't see it as the slag is often dark colored.

So, there's my introductory post. I'll make an introductory post elsewhere tomorrow.
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  #90  
Old 02-06-2018, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Michigan_PM View post
I have not personally used Midwest, though my gold refining mentor uses them almost exclusively for powders as he feels they do him the best service. Their rates are on par with most medium size buyers.

You can make good money with a 98% spot buy. You have to have cash flow, and good analytical capacity to know what you are buying. One, there is silver in karat gold....two, you will likely get silver and low grade gold from the same sellers. Silver payout is usually only 90% of spot, and low grade gold (gold filled) is even lower. You don't make that money by buying 1 oz of karat at a time, but you also don't turn it away or treat it like !!!!. Not a lot of people know PM buying/selling, and your best advertising is word of mouth. Plus, you never know when a guy selling you an ounce of gold is going to come back with ten pounds of sterling...so from a business standpoint, it's best not to insult the customer.

In the end, you only get paid on what's in the final ingot, but there are a lot more diplomatic ways of communicating that. As it was said, it is a hard business...because you often end up disappointing people.

So I hope this isn't considered advertising...because frankly, it's still a hobby for me. My gold refining mentor is a buyer in SE MI. If anyone local needs a place to sell PM's, I can introduce you. He regularly pays 98% on karat gold with no melt or assay fees. Melted in front of you, assayed in front of you. If you don't like the offer he gives, you leave with your ingot. It's another family owned business that very purposely has no web presence. If you've got a little bit but not a lot, I'm a buyer as well, but at a little lower rate (but still better than the coin shop)

With that said, there are mom and pop melt shops like this all over the place, but they are hard to find. They serve as an intermediary between the pawn shops, karat buyers, jewelry shops, etc...and places like metalor or midwest. You have to look pretty hard to find them. When you sell to the big guys, you really are sort of a pain...they still want to provide a good service to you, but it is harder to get a good melt on 30 grams than it is 300 grams.

With small amounts, you'll almost always get spot or above on Ebay, but then have to deduct the final value fees.

Now, for any metal sale, you should be getting three numbers. You should be told your total before melt weight, your after melt weight and your purity. I personally ask for a copy of the XRF as well, since I find it interesting. You are only paid on your after melt weight obviously, but you shouldn't lose much weight, even with most stones. My guess is that it was a cold melt, and there was a bead in the slag...it very well could have been an honest mistake, with a really crappy delivery.

To better explain that, when you melt the gold, you will add borax and a little bit of lime. These will dissolve any impurities, and they will float on top of the gold. When you go to pour your melt, if the slag is not liquid enough, or if you aren't fast enough, sometimes you can get a majority of the melt in one pool, and another small pool (or multiple) hung up in the slag. You won't see it as the slag is often dark colored.

So, there's my introductory post. I'll make an introductory post elsewhere tomorrow.
I'd say that's more than good enough for a "welcome to the forum!" Nice post!

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  #91  
Old 02-06-2018, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Michigan_PM View post
when you melt the gold, you will add borax and a little bit of lime. These will dissolve any impurities, and they will float on top of the gold. When you go to pour your melt, if the slag is not liquid enough, or if you aren't fast enough, sometimes you can get a majority of the melt in one pool, and another small pool (or multiple) hung up in the slag. You won't see it as the slag is often dark colored.
.
Heres a guy who knows what he is talking about. I had 99.8% gold before trying to push the little crumb out with a torch to where I could get at it. Ended up losing a buck a gram because of it.
Great post and informative.
What is your opinion on silver bar/coin and s999 jewellery?

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  #92  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve View post
Heres a guy who knows what he is talking about. I had 99.8% gold before trying to push the little crumb out with a torch to where I could get at it. Ended up losing a buck a gram because of it.
Great post and informative.
What is your opinion on silver bar/coin and s999 jewellery?

You should better describe your gold & melting process, unless you have elsewhere. People are usually interested. The "crumb" culprit could have been silver chloride or some platinum group metals.

As for silver bar/coin and s999 jewellry...I can't say that I see a lot of 999 jewelry. For the other, if it's an easily identified source such as US coin or major mint, I just buy it outright. These carry a premium over spot. With an exception.

When silver was really high a few years back, counterfeit rounds did enter the system. Rounds should be dropped on to a hard surface to compare the audible "ring" to a known genuine round.
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  #93  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Michigan_PM View post
You should better describe your gold & melting process, unless you have elsewhere. People are usually interested. The "crumb" culprit could have been silver chloride or some platinum group metals.

As for silver bar/coin and s999 jewellry...I can't say that I see a lot of 999 jewelry. For the other, if it's an easily identified source such as US coin or major mint, I just buy it outright. These carry a premium over spot. With an exception.

When silver was really high a few years back, counterfeit rounds did enter the system. Rounds should be dropped on to a hard surface to compare the audible "ring" to a known genuine round.
Welcome! Glad you are Here! Watching the markets today...I'll be offloading several oz of 24k and a heap of 18,14,10 soon...jewelry...

Maybe its time to start a new thread concerning the PM market and jump off this ARA trainwreck? You should do an opening post for your welcome regarding your thoughts! UP at the top under General Hobby Discussion?...

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  #94  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:36 AM
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Now thats a LOT of good information....... i think ill send my gold to him. got to ask how you aquired all this knowledge.... you didnt goodle it? I may have to contact Itsarings guy over there.

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  #95  
Old 02-06-2018, 12:05 PM
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Welcome to the Forum Michigan PM!
That's gotta be one of the best 1st posts anywhere. Very informative and helpful. Looking forward to reading more of your posts.
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  #96  
Old 02-06-2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dewcon View post
Now thats a LOT of good information....... i think ill send my gold to him. got to ask how you aquired all this knowledge.... you didnt goodle it? I may have to contact Itsarings guy over there.
Is this directed at me? If so, I'm sorry, but I'm not really interested in anyone that isn't local. It's nothing personal, it's just that the returns on karat scrap really limit who you want to do business with. Every transaction has your reputation on the line, and if there are disagreements or there is disappointment, it's a lot easier to have the seller in front of you. Plus, I honestly don't have the liquid assets to be able to buy much karat, I try to direct my capabilities elsewhere, where my returns can be a little higher.

The numbers surrounding karat scrap still sobering for me. Lets just say you have to be smart and frugal to make it work. You have to have plenty of liquid assets to buy with, and with today's gold market, you aren't going to get rich, let alone get rich quick...but you can do well for yourself.

To answer how I acquired the information...I've spent the last year studying precious metals recovery and refining. I refine gold and silver, and I work with the gentleman I mentioned above. I do make money, but not enough to consider it a job, career, or anything other than a hobby. Some day.
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