Productive hunt and puzzled

ecmo

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After mowing a section of my yard hopefully for the last time this year I grabbed my mx5 and headed for a small farming community about 12 miles from my house.

There's a grassy area of about two acres bordered by a paved running track. A baseball backstop just inside a curve on one end of the track that looks like a game has not been played there in a long time. That end of the track is adjacent to a school and playground which has been closed a number of years due to consolidation. These two properties are owned by seperate people. I was told by the city clerk that way back in the day that much of this area had been the old stockyard. Anyway last week got permission to hunt it, I hunted the school grounds abound 3 years ago.

Last week I hunted primarily the far end finding some cheats and clad, but had zigzaged hit and missed the area where I hunted today. Last week I used both my racer 2 with stock coil (the only one I have for it), and my mx 5 with 9" concentric. Didn't find a lot on the acre around the ball field other than a scant few modern coins a couple wheats, a childs flatened aluminum drinking cup, and a Canadian dime. The few wheaties were around 5 1/2", everything else shallower.

That brings me to today, put my large 12" spider coil on the mx5 because most of this area is not very trashy. Parked on the side of the gravel road that serves as a street in this poor rundown town, crossed the ditch and the paved walking trail, turned on my detector and set the threshold, swung for about twenty feet and got a good solid hit for a quarter at 8 1/2" down. It was a 1939 Washington.

So to try to wind this story down, I picked a "destination" about fifty yards away from the track where the grass appeared thiner and made only two trips there and two back. Beside the quarter I found two mercs, a'27 and '41 and my shallowest coin was a 1902 Barber at 4 1/2 in. down and an inch below a purple plastic comb piece.[emoji1] Also got four cheats and four nickels. Other than the Barber everything was in the 5 1/2--8 1/2 " range.

Now for the puzzler; I seldom use that 12 inch coil and had always read that a large coil would not hit well on a small objects. Well folks I found this tiny stainless disc about the size of the rivet for jeans pockets at 8 plus inches, running on two ton I was getting a higher tone and vdi's bouncing around in the 40's, sometimes tone and numbers would both cut out. Dug it because not that many targets and this was showing real deep on pinpoint, wasn't quite that deep though. The other item was what looks like the outer rim for a locket. That was giving a scratchy, intermittent tone but fairly consistent 14 to 16 or 18 VDI at 8 1/2 " but was only at 6 1/2 " according to the gauge on the TRX pinpointed.

I was very impressed with the large coil on small deep objects. As for particulars: we had over 5 inches rain a few days back, last week my racer 2 would show no mineralization bars and SAT of 60 upon gb at this location. Thanks for staying awake and for looking.

Don
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Lol in case you're wondering the cheats mentioned above are supposed to be wheats.[emoji4]

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Great hunt and some awesome silver.

No real puzzler to me, I've never heard that the larger coils were less sensitive to smaller items. I truly believe that would be influenced by frequency settings and the processor of the machine, and have absolutely nothing to do with coil size. I've actually found bird shot with with Ultimate 13's on both v and Etrac, fairly certain my 17" has nails some tiny pieces as well.
 
.... and had always read that a large coil would not hit well on a small objects. ....

This was more pronounced in the old days (1980s and earlier ?). Where .... yes .... if you got to very large coils , you supposedly lost sensitivity to smaller items (zipper sized, small charms, or whatever). But as technology and precision computerized windings increased, this became less pronounced in recent decades.

Heck, consider the WOT coil (15"). I know guys that can find dainty small jewelry with those on the beach. Granted, they have to tune-their-ears a little better :cool:
 
This was more pronounced in the old days (1980s and earlier ?). Where .... yes .... if you got to very large coils , you supposedly lost sensitivity to smaller items (zipper sized, small charms, or whatever). But as technology and precision computerized windings increased, this became less pronounced in recent decades.

Heck, consider the WOT coil (15"). I know guys that can find dainty small jewelry with those on the beach. Granted, they have to tune-their-ears a little better :cool:

So do you believe this had anything to do with the machine being analog? Or a is the concentric coil windings totally different?

Never heard of this, but you have way more knowledge of the machines of yesteryear than I due to your experience.
 
The other thing to consider is that almost ALL detectors have a fixed transmit power,the power gets somewhat “diluted” the larger the coil gets. I don’t have a graph or equipment to back up what I’ve understood to be the case from several sources but I’ll take it on good faith that it’s true. It only makes sense that if you’re driving a large magnetic field with “X” power that when you drive a small field with the same “X” power that it’ll be more condensed,and therefore more accurate. This also appears to be the reason that very small coils seem to break the mold of “a coils width is generally its depth” quite handily.
The question I have is....how small does an object have to be(all compared objects being of the same composition and shape) for a large coil to miss it ENTIRELY based solely on the size of the object? A highly Conductive silver coin lying flat would be more apt to be detected than that rivet. Yet,I too have detected jean rivets(as almost ALL of us have) at the depths you mention. Given the math and size of a rivet at 8” compared to a silver dime,the dime should be able to be detected at what?....5 feet? Yet,it obviously can’t be. I’m thinking that the ground matrix and conditions are more responsible for detection than anything. Many people use the WOT on beaches,and though I’m no beach hunter,it seems coins in particular can be found WAY deeper there, as long as the sand isn’t black sand.
A targets composition,orientation and size are only one facet of whether or not you’ll find it,by accident or otherwise. But it still doesn’t answer the question...how small can it get and still be detected well enough to investigate(ALL ground conditions,sweep speeds,angles of attack,etc. being the EXACT SAME.)
This same plethora of variables is why we miss targets,then return to find them another day. This is also why gridding,cross-gridding,overlapping,etc. eventually finds more targets. Why YOU found THAT rivet? I dont know.
 
This was more pronounced in the old days (1980s and earlier ?). Where .... yes .... if you got to very large coils , you supposedly lost sensitivity to smaller items (zipper sized, small charms, or whatever). But as technology and precision computerized windings increased, this became less pronounced in recent decades.

Heck, consider the WOT coil (15"). I know guys that can find dainty small jewelry with those on the beach. Granted, they have to tune-their-ears a little better :cool:
Huh, know I've read it a few times in the last four years since graduating into modern times with smartphones and tablets and joining this and another forum and doing some Google searching on different machines that took me to another forums discussions (that I don't belong to).
Know that after yesterday I'm going to use that coil more in light trashy areas. I had roughly gone over some of the area I hunted in last night, last week when I was there and found no silver and nothing deeper than 5 1/2" than. Also the tones just seemed more loud and pronounced. Heck one target actually made me inwardly flinch when my coil passed over it, lol.

Thanks Tom for making me aware that that's an older school of thought.

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The other thing to consider is that almost ALL detectors have a fixed transmit power,the power gets somewhat “diluted” the larger the coil gets. I don’t have a graph or equipment to back up what I’ve understood to be the case from several sources but I’ll take it on good faith that it’s true. It only makes sense that if you’re driving a large magnetic field with “X” power that when you drive a small field with the same “X” power that it’ll be more condensed,and therefore more accurate. This also appears to be the reason that very small coils seem to break the mold of “a coils width is generally its depth” quite handily.
The question I have is....how small does an object have to be(all compared objects being of the same composition and shape) for a large coil to miss it ENTIRELY based solely on the size of the object? A highly Conductive silver coin lying flat would be more apt to be detected than that rivet. Yet,I too have detected jean rivets(as almost ALL of us have) at the depths you mention. Given the math and size of a rivet at 8” compared to a silver dime,the dime should be able to be detected at what?....5 feet? Yet,it obviously can’t be. I’m thinking that the ground matrix and conditions are more responsible for detection than anything. Many people use the WOT on beaches,and though I’m no beach hunter,it seems coins in particular can be found WAY deeper there, as long as the sand isn’t black sand.
A targets composition,orientation and size are only one facet of whether or not you’ll find it,by accident or otherwise. But it still doesn’t answer the question...how small can it get and still be detected well enough to investigate(ALL ground conditions,sweep speeds,angles of attack,etc. being the EXACT SAME.)
This same plethora of variables is why we miss targets,then return to find them another day. This is also why gridding,cross-gridding,overlapping,etc. eventually finds more targets. Why YOU found THAT rivet? I dont know.
Thanks IDX for the response. I have found copper Jean rivets a couple times before at depth with standard coils. I generally carry an old face towel with me to place the extra dirt on after removing the plug, makes it easier to funnel the dirt back into the hole later and also less likely to lose a target in the grass. Anyway I have on a couple occasions in the past at 5 or more inches that read in the 60s VDI and sounded good to my shot hearing. Hand held pinpointed would keep going off as I chased dirt around trying to locate the target only to finally nail down a small spot but seeing nothing I would pinch dirt in my fingers till finally I fount a shotgun pellet about the size of #5 or 6 shot.

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Thanks Captain Silver and Jack &Jill

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