STUMPED For Once

ScubaDetective · Apr 18, 2018

I found this tag and it might just be a name tag for all I know. Can't get any solid information on the company and the symbols I thought were strange is actually a way they identified blood type, who knows how long ago. About the size of a quarter and blank on the back except for FCC Sterling. Any ideas?

The P. is actually an R

Ice Scratcher · Apr 18, 2018

Early/civil war dog tag...

<°)))>{

ScubaDetective · Apr 19, 2018

Ice Scratcher said:
Early/civil war dog tag...

<°)))>{

I am hoping Ice. That would be the ultimate.

SoOregonMd · Apr 19, 2018

This could be your guy

volunteer Militia

https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search...nitname=&lastname=&startrow=241#q=peter+beale

ScubaDetective · Apr 19, 2018

Very interesting. But how would I possibly know?

I can't find much information on the company FCC. Was it around during the Civil War?

I sure wasn't expecting this to possibly be a CW dog tag.

SoOregonMd · Apr 19, 2018

ScubaDetector said:
Very interesting. But how would I possibly know?

I can't find much information on the company FCC. Was it around during the Civil War?

I sure wasn't expecting this to possibly be a CW dog tag.

ya that's where it gets weird.. there is a FORSTNER CHAIN CORP that was out of New Jersey but that was 1920's (that would blow the Theory of the Civil war out of the water (no pun intended))

here is their makers mark but I saw it somewhere also that it had F.C.C. (notice the periods)

ScubaDetective · Apr 19, 2018

I tried to get a good picture of the back but failed. The FCC looks exactly like typed FCC with no periods

FCC
STERLING

The rest of the back is plain.

SoOregonMd · Apr 19, 2018

ScubaDetector said:
I tried to get a good picture of the back but failed. The FCC looks exactly like typed FCC with no periods

FCC
STERLING

The rest of the back is plain.

I still think Ice is correct I believe it is a civil war dog tag too
looks like the ones I saw online shape wise etc.. not exact wording but here is a little history on the CW tags

The First Dog Tags for Soldiers

During the American Civil War (1861-65), only 58% of soldiers killed in action were positively identified. Soldiers worried that if they were killed their families would never know what happened to them, other than that they were missing in action. They wrote their names on a piece of paper or a handkerchief and pinned it to their clothing before going into battle. Some soldiers went to the trouble of carving small wooden discs with their names on them. They drilled a hole in the disc and hung the disc from their neck with a piece of string.

Eventually merchants began producing and selling metal disks to soldiers. Harper’s Weekly Magazine advertised "soldier’s pins" made of silver or gold and etched with the soldier’s name and unit. Some soldiers made their own ID tags by grinding off one side of a coin and then etching their names on it. Dogs wore similar identification tags, so it wasn’t long before soldiers began referring their ID tags as dog tags.

Mud-puppy · Apr 19, 2018

SoOregonMd said:
I still think Ice is correct I believe it is a civil war dog tag too
looks like the ones I saw online shape wise etc.. not exact wording but here is a little history on the CW tags

The First Dog Tags for Soldiers

During the American Civil War (1861-65), only 58% of soldiers killed in action were positively identified. Soldiers worried that if they were killed their families would never know what happened to them, other than that they were missing in action. They wrote their names on a piece of paper or a handkerchief and pinned it to their clothing before going into battle. Some soldiers went to the trouble of carving small wooden discs with their names on them. They drilled a hole in the disc and hung the disc from their neck with a piece of string.

Eventually merchants began producing and selling metal disks to soldiers. Harper’s Weekly Magazine advertised "soldier’s pins" made of silver or gold and etched with the soldier’s name and unit. Some soldiers made their own ID tags by grinding off one side of a coin and then etching their names on it. Dogs wore similar identification tags, so it wasn’t long before soldiers began referring their ID tags as dog tags.

That stands to reason regarding the "Dog Tag" moniker...Everybody knows how valuable, loyal and important a good Dog is to have around...Dogs exhibit more bravery and judgement and wisdom than most Humans...for sure, a dead battlefield Human would be handled with more respect and thought of more highly if he was wearing a Dog Tag...Dogs are something remarkable! Humans should take note and try to aspire to be more like a Dog!

Or else, maybe they would be called 'Cat Tags?'..Y'all know what a good cat will do for you? About nothing!...they cant even swim out in heavy surf and save a kid let alone fight off an intruder or a bear!! So yeah, Cats and Humans are about worthless...

Its a wonder dogs put up with us...I think it has to be for the entertainment value, feeling sorry for us, and the drive through window treats? Dogs even put up with wearing a dmaned bandana and a Halloween outfit if thats what a guy wants... :laughing:

If I was my dog, I'd smother me in my sleep, like a cat would do to a baby...just on the embarassment principal of the whole dmaned thing..

zeemang · Apr 19, 2018

Very unique find!

Diggum · Apr 19, 2018

Awesome find, Scuba! Amazing what you find, down with the fishes!

Wloch248 · Apr 19, 2018

ScubaDetector said:
and the symbols I thought were strange is actually a way they identified blood type, who knows how long ago.

What symbols and how do they relate to blood type?

If true it would nix the Civil War theory because blood types were not discovered until 1900 or 1901 and not widely used enough for someone to put them on a “dog tag” until later when testing was routine and could be done before giving transfusions.

ScubaDetective · Apr 19, 2018

Wloch248 said:
What symbols and how do they relate to blood type?

If true it would nix the Civil War theory because blood types were not discovered until 1900 or 1901 and not widely used enough for someone to put them on a “dog tag” until later when testing was routine and could be done before giving transfusions.

I was told the A RH(D-C- was for a blood type. Not sure actually.

Scooterjim · Apr 19, 2018

I don't think a soldier or the army would care about blood types during the Civil War.

Ice Scratcher · Apr 19, 2018

Or WW1 possibly, same look to those too...

Blood typing started around 1901..

<°)))>{

Wloch248 · Apr 19, 2018

ScubaDetector said:
I was told the A RH(D-C- was for a blood type. Not sure actually.

Actually makes a lot of sense. A blood type, Rh either positive or negative. In this case specifically D and C negative. That would more accurately date it post late 1930’s maybe early 1940’s

GLASSHOPPER1955 · Apr 19, 2018

Have the Martians finally landed?? :wow:

ScubaDetective · Apr 20, 2018

Well I asked Mark Parker of WE Treasures. He gave me a reply:

This is a keychain tag or medallion, and the "F. C. C." mark is that of the Forstner Chain Corp., a firm founded in 1920 by brothers William (Wilhelm) and Walter Forstner, and located at 646 Nye Avenue in Irvington, New Jersey. The Forstners came to America from Germany and first worked in the jewelry industry in Providence, Rhode Island, at least as early as 1915. They specialized in sterling silver, gold-filled and karat gold jewelry chains and accessories such as watch fobs and key chains.

So After the Civil War and WW1. They changed their name in 1955 so before then.

Thanks all for your input. Wish it was older but it is what it is. Now to find more treasures this year.

dickn52 · Apr 21, 2018

"History Karl Landsteiner
Two blood group systems were discovered by Karl Landsteiner during early experiments with blood transfusion: the ABO group in 1901[35][full citation needed] and in co-operation with Alexander S. Wiener the Rhesus group in 1937.[36][37] Development of the Coombs test in 1945,[38] the advent of transfusion medicine, and the understanding of ABO hemolytic disease of the newborn led to discovery of more blood groups, and now 33 human blood group systems are recognized by the International Society of Blood Transfusion (ISBT),[3] and in the 33 blood groups, over 600 blood group antigens have been found;[4] many of these are rare or are mainly found in certain ethnic groups.
*************
Not sure what system they may have used in the Civil war.

SoOregonMd · Apr 21, 2018

ScubaDetector said:
Well I asked Mark Parker of WE Treasures. He gave me a reply:

This is a keychain tag or medallion, and the "F. C. C." mark is that of the Forstner Chain Corp., a firm founded in 1920 by brothers William (Wilhelm) and Walter Forstner, and located at 646 Nye Avenue in Irvington, New Jersey. The Forstners came to America from Germany and first worked in the jewelry industry in Providence, Rhode Island, at least as early as 1915. They specialized in sterling silver, gold-filled and karat gold jewelry chains and accessories such as watch fobs and key chains.

So After the Civil War and WW1. They changed their name in 1955 so before then.

Thanks all for your input. Wish it was older but it is what it is. Now to find more treasures this year.

Well too bad it wasn't older.. but look at the bright side.. at least it wasn't a TOE Tag

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