A little overwhelmed

Think of detectors divided by their purpose.

Coin and Relic
Gold
Waterproof
Super Deep

Some detectors bridge these categories, for instance the White's MXT is a good coin and relic machine that can also be adapted to gold hunting. This is purely my opinion, but I don't think the detectors that bridge categories do any one thing very well. If you're especially interested in any one detecting activity then buy a machine geared toward that specific activity. If you want a do it all machine, then accept the you'll get a bit less performance in specific categories as a trade off.

Many detectors have a waterproof coil setup which will allow you to immerse the front of the machine in water, but it will be ruined if the control box gets wet. If you need a machine that will work fully immersed, then you want a waterproof machine. I don't know a lot about fully waterproof machines.

The links you posted with the 2 large coils are super deep detectors (called 2 box). These aren't really used by newcomers, this is specialized gear for people wishing to find very deep items. We all like deep capabilities but most people wouldn't really want to dig a 4 foot deep hole for a pull tab.

So as a new user, consider what you wish to hunt for. People love to offer their opinions about which detector is their favorite, but most people are very careful to not say "this detector is best" because they know that it all depends on the specific soil and usage. When you spend more money on a detector, you really want to understand that you're getting benefits like better target discrimination or greater depth. These things can't be quantified by numbers and the evidence that any one person gives can only be accepted as anecdotal.

I know this isn't a specific direction or recommendation, and you'd probably like concrete info to move forward. So, give us a better idea of what you want to use the detector for and what enviroment you'll be using it in and we can talk about specific models.

Steve

Thanks for the reply.

I am actually doing research for a friend who lives both here and in Mexico. Where he lives, the possibility exists for use of that 'deep' detector as well as other models. He's indicated that he bought one similar to the Garret a year ago, he's never used it and his Uncle has it in Mexico and he's never used it either. I think it is because they don't actually know how to use it.

Your information was enlightening with respect to the fact the it appears that detectors are highly specialized. Is it the coil or the circuitry or a combination of both that changes the characteristics of the detector.

Is it safe to say that one might need 4 or 5 detectors to do coins, jewerly, relics etc?

thanks,
wiz

Hello Wiz and welcome.I dont think at your stage you need to be worrying about what one machine can do that the other cant.What i will say is that if your serious about the hobby and want your first detector then you should go for a machine that can give you a reasonable all round performance but isnt going to break your bank.Like in any other hobby or sport,expensive doesnt always mean better but you need to stay with the known brands (its safer and you are garenteed of after sales service).Now my recomandation to you would be the Garret Ace 250 as a good starter.a lot of people buy 250 as a starter and find its such a good machine they dont want another one.The choice is yours of course but this machine has a proven record and doesnt cost the earth.I hope i have been of some help.Dont get yourself confused by what one machine can do that the other cant,what you need is a good ,user friendly machine and the Ace 250 is just that.

The control box provides all of the logic for discriminating the signal and providing power to the coil. Along with this you get signal gain, ground balancing, filters to keep electrical interference at bay...

The coil provides the physics needed to locate metal underground. By physics, I mean a particular shape coil projects an EM field with a particular shape. The larger the coil, the larger the shape of the EM field. This can be a bad thing at times, a huge coil produces a larger field and if 2 items occupy the field then the resulting signal may be confusing. This is why people often use smaller coils in trashy or heavily metalized areas, they get smaller zones of detection and can locate items easier. People usually use larger coils when they're willing to turn of the discrimination features of their machine and want to hear all of the signal.

Then there's the frequency to consider. The frequency of a machine or coil also affects the depth and ability to perceive metal. High frequency is good for small or shallow targets. Low frequency is good for deep or larger targets. Some machines use multiple frequencies. Some machines can change frequency by purchasing a different coil.

So this all ties into the intended purpose of a machine. Yes you can purchase extra coils for a machine to make the machine behave in the way you want it to. I think the reason that a true do-it-all machine hasn't become a reality is the complexity involved. At a point, the software interface becomes too confusing. So the compromise is to specialize the machine.

I guess the way I feel about different hardware is driven first by the desire to go detect. If I spent so much time researching the tools that I never used them I think that would be a huge loss. So while I'm interested in why a particular machine performs differently or better I still want to play in the dirt and sand. If you invest in a machine with a good reputation and build for the purpose you wish to use it, then you'll have a good time. With a bit of time spent in the field you can become more of a techy, or not if you'd rather just keep swinging away blissfully.

Personally, I've been detecting for about 2 years. I'm not an old hand, but I'm not afraid of new technology. Don't laugh, a lot of MD'ers are technophobes and stay brand loyal without considering other brands.

Steve

Thanks for the response.

For the record money is not a real issue, although, I don't think I want to spend $15,000 on something that will give me 3D pictures and make exotic coffee.

wizbang7777 said:

Is it safe to say that one might need 4 or 5 detectors to do coins, jewerly, relics etc?

Click to expand...

Actually, if coins, jewelry, and relics are what you'd like to hunt you have a very mainstream interest and can use a single detector to find everything within range. Most detectors sold today are tailored to this interest. Usually people need to begin trading off features when they want a waterproof or a gold hunter.

Something you'll be interested in researching will be discrimination features and of course the holy grail of depth. I think most people feel (incorrectly) that depth is paramount. Personally I like accurate discrimination, as I hunt in ground that is everything from trashy to highly mineralized. When there's a lot of stuff in the ground that you don't care about, discrimination is what is required to only get notifications when something you do care about it underfoot. The best detectors today offer great depth without missing little items and great discrimination.

I'll quiet down now, I feel like I'm talking too much.

Thanks and you are not talking to much.

I've learned a lot in the last few hours.

wiz

Just to help you select the categories for an all around machine:

Top of the line : Whites DFX & Minelab Explorer II or the new Explorer SE

Almost top of the line: Whites XLT, Garrett 2500 GTI, Minelab Quattro

Upper middle: Whites MXT, Garrett 1500 and 1300, Minelab Xterra 70

Going on down WITHOUT PREDJIDUCE, Xterra 50 & 30, various Whites, Tesoro, Garrett

Garrett Ace 250, Whites Prism

Garrett Ace 150

This list is NOT comprehensive, only the key models that come to mind at this time that have given many detectorists reliable and good performance based on expenditure.

The Ace 250 is a killer machine for its price of a little over $200. Don't expect the performance of a top of the line machine, or the versatility that a programmable machine allows. Download the manuals of the ones that stir your interest and you will get a better idea of complexity and basic operations. Once you have narrowed it down, find out the performance qualities such as operation in wet saltwater sand, etc that would be important to your type of hunting.

Hope this has helped, and I am NOT trying to offend ANYONE!

Wow, thanks for all of that. I don't know why I never got involved with this hobby prior to this. I am a Software/Systems Engineer and I live and breath high tech gadgets. The more complex the more I like them.

When you say

Don't expect the performance of a top of the line machine

Click to expand...

how much of a performance hit is there? Is it in discrimination? Depth?

Or are fewer configurable controls that help in the discrimination process..

Thanks,

wiz

Actually, you can test drive! Many dealers will let you get a hands on demonstration, a multi line dealer can let you try out many different machines. A good dealer can help you figure out what machine is best for you. A top of the line detector may not be the one for you, many offer the performance without the bells and whistles at a much lower price.

A less complex detector will not have the discrimination features of a top of the line machine. A reasonable analogy would be to imagine that the less complex detector is able to detect 8 different levels of disturbance in the EM field. If a 10k gold ring has a reading similar to a pull tab, then that particular less complex detector "sees" these two items as the same thing. If you discriminate the pull tab, then you'll also miss the gold ring. A more complex detector may detect 64 different levels of disturbance to the EM field, and therefore now the pull tab and gold ring are "seen" as different items. Then you can filter the pull tabs and still "see" the rings. The more complex machines have modes to automatically attempt to know a gold ring from a pull tab but they can also be taught what a pull tab "looks" like and then be instructed to ignore them. You're still going to dig up pull tabs though, I don't care how carefully you discriminate them.

Many less complex detectors are just as "deep" as more complex detectors (not always, but depth is simple to obtain compared to filtering and discrimination). The depth of the detector is largely based on the power, size, shape, and frequency of the coil. I don't like using the term "all other things equal" because they rarely are, but for our purposes lets assume both the less and more complex detectors have functionally equivalent coil packages. In this case both will go just as deep. But... do you really want to hear every little signal in the ground? Is it helpful to hear a silver dime at 18" if you also hear every other metal item in the ground at the same time? You're not getting much benefit since you'll be digging everything up. Often the less complex detector won't have the same depth capabilities included so that costs can be kept lower.

Other factors affect the detector, such as ground composition and electrical interference. These problems are other considerations that more complex detectors help mitigate.

It tough to bring all of this together for new users. This is the prime reason for dealers pushing lower end detector to new users. The less complex detectors give less information and don't freak out the newer operator. It's ironic that all of the features built into a complex detector which are designed to prevent false targets often work against a new operator and create many more false signals because the machine isn't being tuned correctly. It's worth considering this when buying a detector, even if you have $1200 for the top of line models. A simpler machine will be fun. If you're looking for better machines be aware that many of the features aren't automatic and require some time learning.

I like the Garrett Ace 250, I started with that machine. It's not very complex and it has good defaults. It's fairly cheap but not a toy. I have dug up a silver dime at 12" with that machine and found a gold earring (small target) at 4". I know there are other good machines out there for ~$200. I recently bought an Explorer SE and I've spent all of my time learning it lately and not digging too much. Most new detector owners want to go dig and not spend weeks and months learning a machine.

I'm a network engineer so I too like the complex machines. I think that all technical skills aside you still need to play in the dirt and sand to really understand the various factors. Since you don't have that experience you're going to end up taking some concepts on faith until you can build your own views. Do some research, ask some questions, then pick a machine and go detect.

You guys are really good at explaining this stuff. I have been reading all day about detecting. I still had no idea what to get until I read this thread. I'm going with the garrett ace 250. Summers almost over so I dont have a bunch of time to learn something complicated, I'll start with the easier machine and dig up some extra junk. Falls within my budget too

Yep, you've got the bug! Welcome to the obsession. Don't worry, after you do all this research to get your first machine, you'll do it all over again when it comes time to buy your second machine. But your asking all the right questions. Like the others said, go to a multi line dealer, tell him what you want to do and let him match a machine to you.

A couple of things to stress.
Many (mostly single frequency) machines struggle with wet salt beaches. Twin or multi frequency don't.

W.T.'s list I wouldn't really disagree with except that a multi adjustment detector like a DFX or XLT can have far less performance than a switch on and go cheaper model if incorrectly set up. They have pre set programmes to getyou going but if you stick with them you are wasting a deal of performance.

Ground minerals. You could drive two hundred miles to a dealer and try out a range of machines and pick the deepest/best performing then get home and find its not half as good as you thought. If your local detecting club is not using a particular model it may well be that it can't cope with the conditions in your area.

Plus try before you buy. Some machines are still heavy and or out of balance and you could aggrevate an old injury or trigger tennis elbow which will really take the shine off a new hobby.

Brian

get a minelab sovereign.you can pick one up for around $325 used and you can hunt anything.get the sov gt and you can even hunt nuggets.

Just my two cents. Get the White's MXT it is simple but powerful and easy to use. Add the Sunray probe it is a must. Lastly get the White's Eclipse 6x10 DD coil (this will be your main hunting coil). This combination is killer. Need more depth get the big 18" Ecelerator coil. To much junk get the killer 4x6 DD From Whites (it has almost the depth of the stock coil.) This combination will last you many years and you can take it anywhere. Check the MXT forums and see the gold they get at Ganes creek in Alaska. If I could have only one detector that would be it. As it is I like to make my self CRAZY so within 40 feet of where I sit are the White's MXT (setup as above), M6, DFX, TM 800, GoldMaster 4/B. From Minelab the Quattro, Explorer II and SE (sunray probe.) But as I said if it came down to one it would be the MXT setup as above. It is 5:30 in the AM and I am waiting for some light to appear so I can do some detecting. Coffee tastes great.