Myers Depot Metal Detectors

A Metal Detectorists Dream !

ToddB64

ToddB64

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
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Location
Georgetown, Ohio, USA
A Metal Detectorist's Dream :iwish:

With all the ingenuity and science knowledge at the disposal of metal detector companies, they should be concentrating on developing a circuit that will discriminate all types of aluminum (pull tabs, pop cans, can slaw, foil, freshness seals, foil-lined gum and candy wrappers, etc. etc.) without excluding precious metal targets in the same conductivity range! Once that had been accomplished, then using the knowledge learned to rid us of other trash targets like bottle caps, wire, etc. would be the next step of future metal detector development.

However, we are constrained by the laws of Physics and the challenge that a zillion different types, grades and conductivities of metals present, not forgetting that the "bottom line" comes down to manufacturing cost and the sales price that a large enough consumer base would pay for the company to recover their costs plus profit for the future. Thinking about these things tends to put that dream on the back burner. But you never know, it could happen !

ToddB64
 
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ToddB64 said:
A Metal Detectorist's Dream :iwish:

With all the ingenuity and science knowledge at the disposal of metal detector companies, they should be concentrating on developing a circuit that will discriminate all types of aluminum (pull tabs, pop cans, can slaw, foil, freshness seals, foil-lined gum and candy wrappers, etc. etc.) without excluding precious metal targets in the same conductivity range! Once that had been accomplished, then using the knowledge learned to rid us of trash targets like bottle caps, wire, etc. would be the next step of future metal detector development.

However, we are constrained by the laws of Physics and the challenge that a zillion different types, grades and conductivities of metals present, not forgetting that the "bottom line" comes down to manufacturing cost and the sales price that a large enough consumer base would pay for the company to recover their costs plus profit for the future. Thinking about these things tends to put that dream on the back burner. But you never know, it could happen !

ToddB64
Click to expand...

Yeah, you would think the manufacturers would do that. But lets just move ahead and pretend that such a detector existed. Soon all the good targets would recovered and then who would the manufacturers sell their detectors to? "All that would be left is junk and I don't think that would be much of a hobby digging junk. At least now we can dig 98% junk and 2% good stuff and at this rate many manufacturers will be selling their detectors well into the future. It is like the old theory that companies can produce a life time light bulb but don't.
 
Now that would be some welcome technology. To be able to tell the difference between aluminum and gold with a good probability could revolutionize the hobby. :)
 
maxxkatt…..It was late when I did that post; it was just a wild idea and I didn't think of the consequences down the road, but you are right. Thanks !

longbow62....Any new technology that allows us to more positively determine good targets from trash leads to the same problem explained in maxxkatt's post. I believe Garrett developed something close to your idea of shape and size in high resolution with their GTI 2500 detector years ago...not an exact comparison, but they do claim "precise identification of the size and depth" (also has probable target I.D., as explained on page #3 of the manual under Sub-title: Control Information Graphic Display:).

ToddB64
 
With reference to maxxkatt's first post in this thread, I do agree, however, I just remembered the following article by Bill Revis that should give us all a big sigh of relief as far as future high-tech metal detectors totally cleaning out all the good targets. According to his logic, this will never happen !

The excerpt below will give you the gist of Bill's article, but if you want to read all of it click the Link below and the additional click-ons indicated...Jot them down or memorize. :hmmm:

Excerpt from http://www.thetreasuredepot.com > under Departments at the right click "Online Magazine" > Issue #5 > and "Coin Shooting", by B.G. Revis.

"The average coin or ring will fit into a one inch by one inch space. If you are hunting a patch of only 20’X 20’ this equates to 57,600 square inches or that many potential targets.

Let’s say your machine is equipped with an eight-inch coil and you make a four foot pass with each scan. Even if you overlap each pass you will more than likely miss a minimum one-inch strip each scan (48 square inches or targets.) Say it takes fifty passes to cover the twenty feet, then you make four more passes up and down to cover the 20’x 20’ area, for a total of five passes.

Each pass you sacrifice 48 square inches, times 50 passes = 2400 square inches. Five trips up and down the site times 2400 = 12,000 square inches or 12,000 possible targets you missed scanning this site.

If only one percent of those 12,000 square inches actually contained a target, you left 120 targets behind. Multiply that by every 20’x 20’ patch contained within the area you are hunting (such as a park) and you begin to get the picture. Scary ain’t it? And you thought you were doing so good.

It gets even scarier when you consider how much you are missing at peak of depth for your particular detector."

ToddB64
 
ToddB64 said:
With reference to maxxkatt's first post in this thread, I do agree, however, I just remembered the following article by Bill Revis that should give us all a big sigh of relief as far as future high-tech metal detectors totally cleaning out all the good targets. According to his logic, this will never happen !

The excerpt below will give you the gist of Bill's article, but if you want to read all of it click the Link below and the additional click-ons indicated...Jot them down or memorize. :hmmm:

Excerpt from http://www.thetreasuredepot.com > under Departments at the right click "Online Magazine" > Issue #5 > and "Coin Shooting", by B.G. Revis.

"The average coin or ring will fit into a one inch by one inch space. If you are hunting a patch of only 20’X 20’ this equates to 57,600 square inches or that many potential targets.

Let’s say your machine is equipped with an eight-inch coil and you make a four foot pass with each scan. Even if you overlap each pass you will more than likely miss a minimum one-inch strip each scan (48 square inches or targets.) Say it takes fifty passes to cover the twenty feet, then you make four more passes up and down to cover the 20’x 20’ area, for a total of five passes.

Each pass you sacrifice 48 square inches, times 50 passes = 2400 square inches. Five trips up and down the site times 2400 = 12,000 square inches or 12,000 possible targets you missed scanning this site.

If only one percent of those 12,000 square inches actually contained a target, you left 120 targets behind. Multiply that by every 20’x 20’ patch contained within the area you are hunting (such as a park) and you begin to get the picture. Scary ain’t it? And you thought you were doing so good.

It gets even scarier when you consider how much you are missing at peak of depth for your particular detector."

ToddB64
Click to expand...

Still comes down to the first and foremost part of metal detecting regardless of the type of detector, degree of skill or amount of mineralization in the ground......The coil has to pass over a target before anything else comes into play!!! As far as a perfect "dream" detector goes, it should also be delivered by a perfect woman:lol:riding a pink elephant. Doesn't hurt to dream though.
 
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Rudy said:
Radio wave transmission through mostly air, does not necessarily extrapolate to
transmission through mineralized ground.
Click to expand...

I really don't think Radio waves would have much trouble getting through a couple of inches of mineralized ground.. feet yes inches no.. Think Going through a tunnel but this is meters not inches.

It is also my understanding that Radio waves will find the path of least resistance and go around an object this would lead to getting a basic shape of an object. I am also not saying that we are anywhere near achieving this yet.. I am merely pointing out that this is a possibility for the future as technology progresses.
 
SoOregonMd said:
I really don't think Radio waves would have much trouble getting through a couple of inches of mineralized ground.. feet yes inches no.. Think Going through a tunnel but this is meters not inches.

It is also my understanding that Radio waves will find the path of least resistance and go around an object this would lead to getting a basic shape of an object. I am also not saying that we are anywhere near achieving this yet.. I am merely pointing out that this is a possibility for the future as technology progresses.
Click to expand...

There is a strong relationship between the wavelength of an electromagnetic wave and its ability to be used to provide shape or size information about a target. For our purposes (finding coin sized objects) this requires that the frequency of the wave be way higher than what is used for AM/FM radio. For detection purposes, the wavelength should be on the order of 1/2 of the minimum size target where detection is desired. These very high frequencies will not penetrate very deeply into soil.
 
This Tool already exists! Its the sensitivity of the Human hand!

With nothing but a simple screwdriver and some in field practice, the Human Hand can easily tell with 100% certainty the composition identity of signals simply by quick stabbing them....A guy can tell a screwoff from a Q, a guy can tell the feeling of a ball of foil or can shards or pulltabs...a guy can tell a chain, fence wires, glass bottle necks with the aluminum retainer ring, tarp grommets, everything!....

So in a way, a guy already has this advanced technology available...Its a simple screwdriver paired with the Human Hands sensitivity!...He dont have to dig the junk target, just stab it and touch it...You would be surprised as how sensitive the Human hand is, a person really has to commit to this method and practice in field...You become a Dirt Brain Surgeon!..especially with a multitone rig and proportional audio..You know what it is and how deep it is..then you stab it just to make sure....takes 5 seconds to stoop N stab...

An Old guy told me: "If you wanna get really good really fast, go pull 1000 pennies and 1000 pulltabs as fast as possible with nothing but a screwdriver!"

So I did...And he was right! Its worked for me, I dont ever hardly dig any kind of scrap, I give it a stab and then decide to either extract or leave it underground...10yrs stooping and stabbing, I can tell you the date off a penny before digging it up...Or, I could pull that inoperable tumor off your amygdala for $50..
 
Mud-puppy said:
This Tool already exists! Its the sensitivity of the Human hand!

With nothing but a simple screwdriver and some in field practice, the Human Hand can easily tell with 100% certainty the composition identity of signals simply by quick stabbing them....A guy can tell a screwoff from a Q, a guy can tell the feeling of a ball of foil or can shards or pulltabs...a guy can tell a chain, fence wires, glass bottle necks with the aluminum retainer ring, tarp grommets, everything!....

So in a way, a guy already has this advanced technology available...Its a simple screwdriver paired with the Human Hands sensitivity!...He dont have to dig the junk target, just stab it and touch it...You would be surprised as how sensitive the Human hand is, a person really has to commit to this method and practice in field...You become a Dirt Brain Surgeon!..especially with a multitone rig and proportional audio..You know what it is and how deep it is..then you stab it just to make sure....takes 5 seconds to stoop N stab...

An Old guy told me: "If you wanna get really good really fast, go pull 1000 pennies and 1000 pulltabs as fast as possible with nothing but a screwdriver!"

So I did...And he was right! Its worked for me, I dont ever hardly dig any kind of scrap, I give it a stab and then decide to either extract or leave it underground...10yrs stooping and stabbing, I can tell you the date off a penny before digging it up...Or, I could pull that inoperable tumor off your amygdala for $50..
Click to expand...

Mud-puppy you crack me up.

1000 pennies and 1000 pull-tabs -- I'll be good, but it'll take 10 years!
I'll bet you and your probe can even tell how many fingers I'm holding up right now...lol

But you make a good point. Maybe I'd dig up fewer caps and more quarters if I learned to channel the force through the dirt with a simple metal probe.
 
Re Mud's post #12, I'm not saying that what he proposes isn't possible, but just remember that the majority of people are either too lazy to achieve that level of hand-to-brain touch recognition or just don't have the innate ability, so couple that with the new-age attitude of "I want it now! Let the high-tech electronics do the work for me." and you have the perfect scenario for success in the metal detector industry if they ever develop a "Metal Detectorists Dream !".

ToddB64
 
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