Another Police Thread.

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Armistead

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I went hunting this morning at an old school, burned down, now private property and had permission. The school is next to a small park, in fact the park was once part of the school.I noticed two young girls playing in the park, maybe 8 yrs old. I saw no adults around. They both finally came to see what I was doing. Being a grown male, having young children near me with no adults in sight makes men nervous, so I nicely told them to go back and play, but they followed being nosy. I asked where their parents were, told mommy went to Burger King.... about this time mommy pulled up in a car.

Anyway, she yelled for them to come over, could tell she was talking. She got the girls eating on the picnic table and came towards me with a scowl and said I needed to leave. I told her I had permission and she then said "park hunting" was illegal and she is right about this park. I told her I wasn't on the park and on private property. She left, cell phone came out.....oh boy.

Not long police show up, talk to her, then here they come. The ladies complaint was a strange man talking to her young children and she was concerned. I explained to the cop I wasn't strange to the property owner.
The cop asked for my ID, in which I said no. I told the cop they should be more concerned with the lady leaving young kids alone in a park not in the greatest part of town. One officer kept asking why I wouldn't show ID, told him unless I was being charged or arrested I wouldn't. I also told him this property was posted and the lady and her children were trespassing. They left, took my car tag. I did see one officer seemingly arguing with the lady.

She gathered her kids and left.
 
It's true. Unless your state has a stop and identify law. You never have to show your ID to the police or answer any of their questions unless they tell you 'you are being detained' which you can ask if you are. Or being charged with a crime, or suspected of about to commit a crime.

At least this time the detectorist stood his ground and one. Too many of these stories end with the detectorist bending to the will of a mal adjusted individual which will leave that person with the screwed logic of they were in the right because the detectorist left.

I will always be polite, but I will encourage the person to call the police so we can sort this matter out quickly, because I'm tired of talking to you about it.

Glad you stood your ground.
 
if a police officer asks to see your id & you refuse, he/she should be allowed to nightstick/pepper spray/tazer you

when an officer of the law asks you to do something you do it...period
 
Are you a sheep? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. We aren't required to lick the boots of law enforcement officers just because they say. Unless you are being detained you don't have to show police jack shite. Wow, go back to 1930's Stalin Russia with that logic.
 
if a police officer asks to see your id & you refuse, he/she should be allowed to nightstick/pepper spray/tazer you

when an officer of the law asks you to do something you do it...period

Wow! So your saying an officer should be able to beat you if you refuse to identify yourself, even if the law states you don't have to. Amazing!:notme:
 
I just realized the irony in this whole post. Ahaha.

Definition of maverick:

One that refuses to abide by the dictates of or resists adherence to a group; a dissenter.
 
Not that I'm saying you did anything wrong, but why the refusal to show ID? I mean is it really a bad thing if your doing nothing wrong. I mean it just makes you appear as if u are doing something wrong. Just trying to understand the logic here. I do think on the officers side it was a little much to ask for your ID in this case.
 
Interesting incident.

If you are right it's good to standp for it. If you are wrong, not so much. If an officer asks for your ID, he's giving you an option to say yes or no.

Being pepper sprayed or beaten for saying no, well, that's out there in outer space.
 
if a police officer asks to see your id & you refuse, he/she should be allowed to nightstick/pepper spray/tazer you

I can only hope that happens to me someday. I sure could use the $500,000 :D

Police in my state need an RAS (reasonable act of suspicion) to detain you or ask for your ID. If you are not breaking the law, or in suspicion of a crime, they have no right to see your ID.

I openly carry a handgun everywhere in my state (where its legal, no schools and such), and when stopped I simple ask what their RAS is, if I am commiting a crime, and why I am being detained. If they have nothing to hold me on (RAS), I ask if I am free to go, and I walk away doing my own thing. Of course I am polite, thank them for checking up on a MWAG call and show them respect.
 
Good job standing up to the lady who can't watch her kids. I would also have made sure to tell the officer that you specifically told the little girls to leave you alone, but they did not do so until their mother came back.

Anyone else noticing a trend of mothers making parental mistakes, and then trying to cover their behinds by lying to authorities? At least the officer seemed to talk to her about her stupidity.
 
if a police officer asks to see your id & you refuse, he/she should be allowed to nightstick/pepper spray/tazer you

when an officer of the law asks you to do something you do it...period


The police have the legal right to Terry stop a person in our state, but they must have reasonable suspicion. A person stopped does not have to answer any questions or give ID. If they suspect the person may be armed, they can do an outer pat, but not allowed to search inner clothers, pockets, etc., unless they feel something that concerns them.

I often open carry a firearm when I detect as well and if stopped by a officer, often refuse ID, depends on how polite the officer is. I expect police to know the law, not be tyrants, moreso when I'm not breaking the law. Had I not been on private land with permission, I probably would've showed him my ID, even though I still could've refused.

Obviously the cop asking me ID was longer than I explained in the OP. He refused to explain his suspicion, so I refused ID. When he kept asking why I wouldn't show it, I would ask what his grounds of suspicion were, no answer.
The cop knew the law, why he left me alone.

It's bad enough they won't let us detect public parks, so I'm not gonna be bullied when I'm hunting posted private property with permission by anyone.
 
Bravo on knowing your rights.
The cop needs "reasonable articulable suspicion" of a specific crime.
Not "suspicious" in the vague sense.
Make him say which crime so he has to commit and can't just jerk you around.
 
Not that I'm saying you did anything wrong, but why the refusal to show ID? I mean is it really a bad thing if your doing nothing wrong. I mean it just makes you appear as if u are doing something wrong. Just trying to understand the logic here. I do think on the officers side it was a little much to ask for your ID in this case.

They are YOUR rights! If YOU don't stand up for them no one will. The cops are not there to make sure your rights are not violated. Give an inch and they will take a mile. They rely on ignorance and brow beating to get their way and to circumvent 'the law' to make their jobs easier. Not all cops are bad, but a lot of them are lazy about procedure. They don't have free reign to hassle the public because they have a badge. They serve YOU, remember that.
 
Wow, there are some cop haters in this forum.
I think you are correct to refuse UNLESS they say they are investigating a crime or even a complaint. In that case, at least in my state, they have the right to id you. The woman made a complaint so it was in a grey area. You were on private property so you had a legal standing. However, YOU are correct about her leaving those children. That was a definite poor judgement and could even be pushed to a DCYS complaint.

I agree about the most important question tho....Find anything? :)
 
if a police officer asks to see your id & you refuse, he/she should be allowed to nightstick/pepper spray/tazer you

when an officer of the law asks you to do something you do it...period

Sounds like you voted for our old Sheriff whose son beat a confession out of an innocent kid.He got paid desk leave.Us taxpayers paid the mom for the kids arse whooping! Imagine if the kid had did something!
 
Wow, there are some cop haters in this forum.
I think you are correct to refuse UNLESS they say they are investigating a crime or even a complaint. In that case, at least in my state, they have the right to id you. The woman made a complaint so it was in a grey area. You were on private property so you had a legal standing. However, YOU are correct about her leaving those children. That was a definite poor judgement and could even be pushed to a DCYS complaint.

I agree about the most important question tho....Find anything? :)

I don't think cop haters at all, just 'rights' lovers.
 
Nobody is asking the important question.... Find anything good ? :grin:

The area is a honey hole....really it's across the street I've done well, in the 1800's the entire area was a boating lake/park. The school was added later. The larger area across the street is a cow pasture now.
 
:laughing: Gotta love internet forum lawyers...

OP you're lucky you weren't locked up for obstruction. They did have a reason to ID you. As crazy as that lady was/is she told the cops you were suspicious and talking to young children. That is there reason right there. They need to make sure you aren't a sex offender or wanted individual. Being on private property makes no difference especially since it wasn't your private property. You are required by law to provide identification if you are asked by a police officer in the lawful course of his/her duties, which it clearly was. (meaning they can't just randomly walk up to you and ask for ID, which this wasn't the case)

If you had nothing to hide and did nothing wrong, why not make the cops life easier and just hand over your ID. You make the situation worse and make yourself look more suspicious by doing what you did. And in the end they still got your info from your tag so you accomplished nothing but make yourself look more suspicious.
 
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