White's V3 or Mine Lab E-Trac

Bz95

New Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
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16
Location
Savannah, Georgia
I've been doing some research and it looks like the V3 and the E-Trac are the current top VLF contenders. I'm new and I'm buying my first detector. At first I was looking at getting a PI because I was interested in depth for prospecting, but the local White's dealer said most gold will be within range of a VLF, so now I think a good VLF could be a good bet. I'm trying to find a MD that is going to be good at not only coins, relics and jewlery, but also prospecting.

The White's dealer also said the coils can be switched out on the V3 to better suit it for gold prospecting. I'm wondering which one would be better at all these tasks or is there a better choice out there than the V3 or E-Trac?

Thanks for any advise.
 
Since you want a decent prospecting machine then the Whites would be better. But otherwise I am an Etrac user and since prospecting is part of the formula for your detecting needs I would look into the Xterra 705 too. Also the VLF is very sensitive to very very small gold and the Minelab GPX 4500 is the PI machine for the serious prospector. I hope this will be helpful and good hunting.

John Tomlinson,CET
John's Detectors
 
Thanks for the info.

I just got off the phone with the KellyCo rep and he also mentioned the X-Terra 705. The 705 has 3 frequencies as does the V3, but the E-Trac has 28 frequencies! I've read elsewhere that the V3 may be better suited for gold, but it also seems that having 28 frequencies on the E-Trac would outperform the V3. I wish someone would write a short book on how all these MD's work. It would make it easier than fishing through forums to see which one is better. :yes:
 
Hi Bz, well the FBS technology is just not geared toward detecting small gold. Now if there was a large nugget I'm sure it would detect it. But there is a very good book about the Minelab Explorer and Etrac by Andy Sabich. They are 19.95 + 4.00 media shipping. I have them if you want one. Because the Minelab has 28 freq. does not lend itself very well to nugget hunting. In fact I would rather have the 705 or the GMT or GoldbugII. Ok if I can help you just email or call. Be safe.

John Tomlinson,CET
John's Detectors
 
Thanks for the info.

I just got off the phone with the KellyCo rep and he also mentioned the X-Terra 705. The 705 has 3 frequencies as does the V3, but the E-Trac has 28 frequencies! I've read elsewhere that the V3 may be better suited for gold, but it also seems that having 28 frequencies on the E-Trac would outperform the V3. I wish someone would write a short book on how all these MD's work. It would make it easier than fishing through forums to see which one is better. :yes:

Definitely the V3 is better on low conductors (like gold) than the E. The 28 frequencies is purely marketing hype. It doesn't matter how many frequencies it transmits, what matters is how many frequencies it listens to. The answer is 3. The other 25 frequencies it radiates is just wasted battery power.
 
The 3 frequencies of the V3 and the 28 of the E-Trac are completely different technologies, each with their own strong points. Even the single frequency detectors produce 8-16 frequencies(harmonics) but they only process 1, or in the case of the FBS, 1 at a time.

The Spectra V3 can process up to 3 frequencies SIMULTANEOUSLY. Again, each technology has its strong point. For the E-Trac(and other FBS detectors) they are the king of deep silver. For the V3 its sensitivity to gold. From what reports say, which often needs to be taken with a grain of salt, the V3 pretty much can match the E-Trac on deep silver. If this is true, then the V3 would be the better choice. If you plan to hunt gold then the V3 would be the better choice.
 
Even the single frequency detectors produce 8-16 frequencies(harmonics) but they only process 1, or in the case of the FBS, 1 at a time.

Yes, any time you have a waveform that is not a pure sine wave you will have harmonics being generated. To say that the FBS processes 1 frequency at a time, while true, is a little misleading.

On the FBS technology, each receiver frequency channel is gated such that it "listens" only when its particular frequency is being generated by the transmitter. So, 1 at a time is true. However the transmit waveform cycles through the three waveforms of interest in just a few milliseconds (thousands of a second), so the coil hasn't moved appreciably from the target. So for all intents and purposes you can think of it as happening instantaneously, especially when you consider that all FBS detectors need to be swept slower than most other detectors.

It is worth noting that like the DFX (2 frequencies), or the V3 (3 frequencies), the FBS transmitter purposely generates the 3 frequencies, the other 25 frequencies are harmonics coincidentally generated.

If you counted these coincidentally generated harmonics (that the receiver doesn't use) in the DFX and V3, or heck on just about any detector, then all of them are multi-frequency. :shock: That is why Minelabs claim about 28 frequencies is just bunk.
 
Very true Rudy.

If I remember right, each single frequency will produce 8 resonating frequencies, and many harmonics in multiples of 8 each being less prominent. So the single frequency detector could claim 8 frequencies or even as far as 16. So the 2 frequency DFX could claim 16 or 24 frequencies and the V3 24 or even 48 frequencies. In fact I think for a short period White's did mention the DFX producing 16 frequencies, but it was in reference to non used frequencies.

Both the FBS and White's multi-frequency systems have advantages. The one thing that has always confused me with the FBS is that it is killer on deep silver, but lacks in the gold area. One would think using up to 100khz would kill on gold, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Oh well, the right detector for the right job.

In the end even a thousand frequencies does no good if it can only process 1.
 
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Very true Rudy.

If I remember right, each single frequency will produce 8 resonating frequencies, and many harmonics in multiples of 8 each being less prominent. So the single frequency detector could claim 8 frequencies or even as far as 16. So the 2 frequency DFX could claim 16 or 24 frequencies and the V3 24 or even 48 frequencies. In fact I think for a short period White's did mention the DFX producing 16 frequencies, but it was in reference to non used frequencies.

Both the FBS and White's multi-frequency systems have advantages. The one thing that has always confused me with the FBS is that it is killer on deep silver, but lacks in the gold area. One would think using up to 100khz would kill on gold, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Oh well, the right detector for the right job.

In the end even a thousand frequencies does no good if it can only process 1.

Mathematically, it could have an infinite number of harmonics though the amplitude of each harmonic eventually becomes infinitesimally small. The whole thing was explained by a French mathematician by the name of Joseph Fourier, who found that any periodic waveform can be decomposed into a sum of sine (or cosine) waves. You can read about Fourier series here.

You can also "play" with a little java applet that lets you visualize the waveforms here.
 
You might want to also look at the Minelab Eureka Gold. It is a very good detector for gold prospecting, plus it can also be used easily for coin and relic hunting too. It has three frequencies, but only uses one at a time. It is user selectable.

Dave
 
Now Read This!

You can read a good white paper on Metal Detector technologies at Minelab's website http://www.minelab.com/consumer/page.php?section=349

My research shows that if you want to look for raw gold, then you probably should buy a specialized gold detector. I don't own one so I can't make a recommendation. Gold detectors don't do well with coins or jewelry, so you will want another detector for that. I faced the same dilema when I was deciding what to buy. I decided to first go with a good quality detector that will find coins, jewelry and relics. I will buy a gold detector someday when I get "the bug". I bought a Minelab Safari and got the Bounty Hunter 505 pro for $75 on the Kellyco BOGO sale, which is ending very soon. Don't listen to people who say the minelab FBS technology is bunk. Try one out or talk to some people who use it. After reading the whitepaper, which gets pretty technical, you will see that the folks at Minelab know what they are talking about.
Cheers!
 
Wow-the Minelab papers are comprehensive. It's good to understand this technology and know exactly what's going on instead of just mindlessly waiving around a MD.
 
Yep

I agree! My plan is to eventually buy a used high-quality gold detector, probably on eBay. There are gold mines all around our town, so I know the prospecting bug will eventually get me. Meanwhile, we are planning out our summer weekends with a list of good coin, jewelry and relic sites. We'll see how well I do at this hobby. I think you should decide which kind of detecting you want to do first and buy that detector first. Another thought is, if you buy a highly desireable detector, then if you end up selling it after a year you will get most of your money back.
Cheers!
 
Small gold with a Minelab Explorer SE

SNIPP

Both the FBS and White's multi-frequency systems have advantages. The one thing that has always confused me with the FBS is that it is killer on deep silver, but lacks in the gold area. One would think using up to 100khz would kill on gold, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Oh well, the right detector for the right job.

SNIPP

I have gold samples in the sizes of 1 grain, 2 grain and 3 grain.

I always figured that my Minelab Explorer SE wasn't using the 100KHz frequency all the time; this depending on wich channel it was when we noise cancel automatically or manually.

I have therefore made some tests playing with the channels and looking at the most sensitive one.
I also established that Ferrous rejection could only be set at 31 at most to obtain a reading of my small samples, Conductivity readings were in the 00 to 05 range.

It was mandatory that I set the DEEP option to ON for any detection sensitivity and consistency

1- I started with my 3 grain sample and sensitivity at default of 22 and channel default #5.
--> Result: the sample was not detected

2- I then changed channel to #1 and kept same sentivity of 22
-->Result: 3 grain gold sample was Detected with some intermittence

3- I set sensitivity to 23, nothing else changed.
--> Result: The sample was detected with consistency

4- I tried now with channel #2, 3 grain sample, sensitivity 23.
-->Result: the sample was detected with some loss of consistency

5- I tried now with channel #3, 3 grain sample, sensitivity 23.
-->Result: the sample was detected with intermittence.

6- I tried now with channel #4, 3 grain sample, sensitivity 23.
-->Result: the sample was not detected

7- I reverted to channel #1, used the 2 grain sample, sensitivity 23.
--> Result: the 2 grain sample was not detected

8- Still on channel #1, 2 grain sample, sensitivity now at 25.
--> Result: the 2 grain sample was detected

Conclusions:

-Any channel above #3(three) wasn't sensitive to small gold.
-Sensitivity needs to be at minimum set at 23 on most sensitive channel.
-You need to be in "All Metal" with "Iron Mask" set at 32. At 31 it will detect also but less consistently.
-Deep option(in Recovery sub-menu) needs to be set to ON
-Detection of the sample is most sensitive within 2 inches of ends of the DD coils' center blade.
-these findings are also verifiable with the Sunray inline probe fitted on my Explorer SE

I have started a thread to post these findings so as not to occupy anymore space in this one
 
The 3 frequencies of the V3 and the 28 of the E-Trac are completely different technologies, each with their own strong points. Even the single frequency detectors produce 8-16 frequencies(harmonics) but they only process 1, or in the case of the FBS, 1 at a time.

The Spectra V3 can process up to 3 frequencies SIMULTANEOUSLY. Again, each technology has its strong point. For the E-Trac(and other FBS detectors) they are the king of deep silver. For the V3 its sensitivity to gold. From what reports say, which often needs to be taken with a grain of salt, the V3 pretty much can match the E-Trac on deep silver. If this is true, then the V3 would be the better choice. If you plan to hunt gold then the V3 would be the better choice.

How many Frequencies does the E-Trac process at once?
 
How many Frequencies does the E-Trac process at once?

One. Think of it like a police scanner. It scans through the frequencies looking for a response, and processes each individually. That is why the FBS's needs a slow swing. The process does happen very fast but not all at the same time. It is also this process that makes the FBS's very good for deep silver.

This is my understanding anyway.

I'm not clear on the number of frequencies the E-Trac transmits, but it would seem to me that if more than one frequency was involved, simultaneously, you would be able to use any one of those frequencies as an option. Like the DFX or V3. Also, it would be common knowledge what frequencies the FBS used.
 
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I have gold samples in the sizes of 1 grain, 2 grain and 3 grain.

I always figured that my Minelab Explorer SE wasn't using the 100KHz frequency all the time; this depending on wich channel it was when we noise cancel automatically or manually.

I have therefore made some tests playing with the channels and looking at the most sensitive one.
I also established that Ferrous rejection could only be set at 31 at most to obtain a reading of my small samples, Conductivity readings were in the 00 to 05 range.

It was mandatory that I set the DEEP option to ON for any detection sensitivity and consistency

1- I started with my 3 grain sample and sensitivity at default of 22 and channel default #5.
--> Result: the sample was not detected

2- I then changed channel to #1 and kept same sentivity of 22
-->Result: 3 grain gold sample was Detected with some intermittence

3- I set sensitivity to 23, nothing else changed.
--> Result: The sample was detected with consistency

4- I tried now with channel #2, 3 grain sample, sensitivity 23.
-->Result: the sample was detected with some loss of consistency

5- I tried now with channel #3, 3 grain sample, sensitivity 23.
-->Result: the sample was detected with intermittence.

6- I tried now with channel #4, 3 grain sample, sensitivity 23.
-->Result: the sample was not detected

7- I reverted to channel #1, used the 2 grain sample, sensitivity 23.
--> Result: the 2 grain sample was not detected

8- Still on channel #1, 2 grain sample, sensitivity now at 25.
--> Result: the 2 grain sample was detected

Conclusions:

-Any channel above #3(three) wasn't sensitive to small gold.
-Sensitivity needs to be at minimum set at 23 on most sensitive channel.
-You need to be in "All Metal" with "Iron Mask" set at 32. At 31 it will detect also but less consistently.
-Deep option(in Recovery sub-menu) needs to be set to ON
-Detection of the sample is most sensitive within 2 inches of ends of the DD coils' center blade.
-these findings are also verifiable with the Sunray inline probe fitted on my Explorer SE

I have started a thread to post these findings so as not to occupy anymore space in this one

That is a very interesting test.

Anyone with a V3i have the means to do this test?

And as far as grains of gold go, how many grains is the average wedding ring?
 
And as far as grains of gold go, how many grains is the average wedding ring?

My wedding band is 5 grams, or about 77 grains. (note the wedding band is 14K, while I'm assuming the grains are pure, so you will need to multiply 77 by 14/24 to get grains pure).
 
The only help can give on the e-trac's ability to pick up gold is in the jewelry realm. It picks up jewelry at more than triple the depths (and at times up to 5 times the depth...small chains) than any other detector I have used at the standard 7.5 k or therabouts freq. It even betters my xterra 305 with hf coil on jewelry. But remember guys, jewelry and natural gold nuggets are two very different things altogether.
 
I can't tell you about the V3 but I know since I've got my E-Trac, it's opened a whole new world of detecting for me. It's fantastic.
 
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