Using a Ferrite to Ground Balance.

A ferrite is useful to tweak the ground balance on a detector that has a fixed ground balance. If you use a machine with ground balance tracking, it is better to just pick a "clean" spot of ground and balance to it.

ToddB64 said:

Hi All !

Looking for opinions and also any general information you can offer on using a ferrite (a small ceramic shape with high-iron content) to Ground Balance a metal detector.
I saw this demonstrated recently on the Internet via a Minelab youtube for their GPZ 7000.

Then I did some investigation and discovered that there are many manufacturers of small-size ceramic ferrites of various shapes with different percentages of metals in the composition, but ferrite (iron dust) usually has the highest percent in a ceramic alloy, and possibly the largest volume of these ferrites is produced for the electronics and electrical products industries.

In addition to opinions and/or general information you might be able to offer, I would appreciate answers to the following questions if possible, but I guess these are for our science experts.

#1..Do the ingredients in the ferrite alloy, in terms of metals used and their percentages, need to be matched to the particular metal detector's frequency and/or circuit design for optimum Ground Balancing?

#2..Or is the choice of a ferrite and it's composition not that important as long as the ferrite content reigns King?

Thanks for your replies gals and guys !

ToddB64

Click to expand...

I heard a podcast that touched on ferrite ground balancing. But all they did was touch on it and did not explain much of it. This got me thinking and curious so I came across a couple cylinders a ferrite and tested them on my nox. It ranged from zero to 3 on the ground balance. Default on the nox is 0. Once in awhile I feel froggy and I use those as my settings for my ground balance. Because I do not understand it I'm not sure if it makes much of a difference. It seems to run stable though.

The signum 7272 I had was finicky to gb, I used a piece of ferrite and never had performance issues..

Rudy said:

A ferrite is useful to tweak the ground balance on a detector that has a fixed ground balance. If you use a machine with ground balance tracking, it is better to just pick a "clean" spot of ground and balance to it.

Click to expand...

Rudy,

The metal detector I will be using from my arsenal this year to hunt primarily for gold or silver jewelry at parks will be my Tesoro Bandido II µMax which, as you might know, doesn't have ground balance "tracking" per se, but does have manual ground balancing.

I do appreciate the general information you provided; it's very useful to know, but it really doesn't answer my questions specifically.

Dan B. added his reply after yours and said the results he got with his Nox using some ferrites he came across, and of course he didn't know the alloy composition of the ferrites, but did report that he got a variation from 0 to 3 with his ferrites, versus the default on the Nox being 0 (zero).

Dan also provided a picture and it looks like he might have been using ceramic ferrites encased in plastic housings. However, there are many, many ferrite alloy mixes for different applications, as you can see by (a) clicking on the following Link and then (b) scroll down the Links page and click TYPES OF FERRITE MATERIALS, by cwsbytemark.com.

http://https://www.cwsbytemark.com/CatalogSheets/Ferrite_datasheet_oct06/FR_MATL.pdf

Based on the conclusion I draw from the above Link, it appears that it is important to match the right ferrite alloy to each application for optimum results.

So extending the above thought pattern, I would like to know which ceramic ferrite composition would be the best purchase to match my B2µMax for optimum Ground balancing results. What criterion about the B2µMax electronics is/are significant when making the best choice of ferrite alloy in this case? Surely, the Minelab technical staff did some study to decide on the best composition of the ferrite ring used in their following YouTube Video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdq5hrjSiY8

Toodles Mate !

ToddB64

Rudy said:

A ferrite is useful to tweak the ground balance on a detector that has a fixed ground balance. If you use a machine with ground balance tracking, it is better to just pick a "clean" spot of ground and balance to it.

Click to expand...

ToddB64 said:

Rudy,

The metal detector I will be using from my arsenal this year to hunt primarily for gold or silver jewelry at parks will be my Tesoro Bandido II µMax which, as you might know, doesn't have ground balance "tracking" per se, but does have manual ground balancing.

I do appreciate the general information you provided; it's very useful to know, but it really doesn't answer my questions specifically.

Dan B. added his reply after yours and said the results he got with his Nox using some ferrites he came across, and of course he didn't know the alloy composition of the ferrites, but did report that he got a variation from 0 to 3 with his ferrites, versus the default on the Nox being 0 (zero).

Dan also provided a picture and it looks like he might have been using ceramic ferrites encased in plastic housings. However, there are many, many ferrite alloy mixes for different applications, as you can see by clicking on the following random Link I found on the Internet.

https://www.cwsbytemark.com/CatalogSheets/Ferrite_datasheet_oct06/FR_MATL.pdf <--NOTE ! This address does not work and will be corrected shortly. I'm in contact with CWS now to get the correct address.

Based on the conclusion I draw from the above Link, it appears that it is important to match the right ferrite alloy to each application for optimum results.

So extending the above thought pattern, I would like to know which ceramic ferrite composition would be the best purchase to match my B2µMax for optimum Ground balancing results. What criterion about the B2µMax electronics is/are significant when making the best choice of ferrite alloy in this case? Surely, the Minelab technical staff did some study to decide on the best composition of the ferrite ring used in their following YouTube Video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdq5hrjSiY8

Toodles Mate !

ToddB64

Click to expand...

The way I was told to ground balance with ferrite was to do an air test. Holding detector up in the air pressing the ground balancing button and moving the ferrite up and down in front of the coil.

woodbutcher said:

The signum 7272 I had was finicky to gb, I used a piece of ferrite and never had performance issues..

Click to expand...

Thanks woodbutcher ; that's encouraging !

ToddB64

Dan B. said:

The way I was told to ground balance with ferrite was to do an air test. Holding detector up in the air pressing the ground balancing button and moving the ferrite up and down in front of the coil.

Click to expand...

Dan B.,

Good information and thanks for passing that along !

ToddB64

I know you are asking which of the many types of ferrite compositions would be best.

I built a TGSL (Tersoro Golden Sabre Light) and need to adjust the internal GB pot.

Being that I do electronic I have a verity of ferrites.
First was some large pieces (~6 x 2.5 cm) for EMI suppression. No luck adjusting GB pot as these always come up as iron.
Next tried some small (~5mm) cores from old radio coils. These worked perfectly. Problem is I have no idea what type of ferrite these old cores are made from.

In the older Tersoro manuals (for detectors with external GB adjust) there is the procedure you are referring to. These older Tersoro's came with a piece of ferrite but again unclear as to what type but they were not big.

waltr said:

I know you are asking which of the many types of ferrite compositions would be best.

I built a TGSL (Tersoro Golden Sabre Light) and need to adjust the internal GB pot.

Being that I do electronic I have a verity of ferrites.
First was some large pieces (~6 x 2.5 cm) for EMI suppression. No luck adjusting GB pot as these always come up as iron.
Next tried some small (~5mm) cores from old radio coils. These worked perfectly. Problem is I have no idea what type of ferrite these old cores are made from.

In the older Tersoro manuals (for detectors with external GB adjust) there is the procedure you are referring to. These older Tersoro's came with a piece of ferrite but again unclear as to what type but they were not big.

Click to expand...

Do you think that there is any benefit ground balancing to ferrite on the nox or any other popular machine? I metal detect primarily old home sites and fields were there is lots of nails. thanks!

waltr said:

I know you are asking which of the many types of ferrite compositions would be best.
I built a TGSL (Tersoro Golden Sabre Light) and need to adjust the internal GB pot. Being that I do electronic I have a verity of ferrites.

First was some large pieces (~6 x 2.5 cm) for EMI suppression. No luck adjusting GB pot as these always come up as iron.

Next tried some small (~5mm) cores from old radio coils. These worked perfectly. Problem is I have no idea what type of ferrite these old cores are made from.

In the older Tersoro manuals (for detectors with external GB adjust) there is the procedure you are referring to. These older Tersoro's came with a piece of ferrite but again unclear as to what type but they were not big.

Click to expand...

_____________________________________________________________

Hi waltr

Thanks for your reply and the information regarding your experiences with ferrites. That was interesting !

The following Minelab You tube video is what first made me aware of using a custom-matched ferrite for a more complete and accurate method of Ground Balancing a metal detector.

GPZ 7000 Ferrite Aid GB Method - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0yp5Iygi7M

With reference to your comment above that I colored blue for easy reference, I love to solve technical electronics problems, doing the research and working out math formulas to resolve the issue involved. In our case the issue and goal is to discover what metallic elements and percentage of each element were used in a ferrite alloy, for the purpose of knowing which ferrite alloy recipe gives the best metal detector Ground Balance results.

After a lot of time I spent on the Internet trying to discover a safe and economical method of testing "bare" ferrites, i.e. with no wire windings, to discover the metallic elements and percentages in a ferrite alloy, I couldn't find a method to do that. However, during Internet research I found a company at 353 West Grove Ave. Orange, California at the following Home page address: https://www.cwsbytemark.com and they have a Chart that shows different ferrites, their materials, uses and specifications that might be of help to you, that you can see by (a) clicking on the following Link and then (b) scroll down the Links page and click TYPES OF FERRITE MATERIALS, by cwsbytemark.com.

https://www.cwsbytemark.com/CatalogSheets/Ferrite_datasheet_oct06/FR_MATL.pdf

Their company address, sales dept. e-mail address and phone numbers are shown at the bottom of the Home page. So, it might be easier in the long run to just call them and ask one of their technicians to recommend a small sample selection of appropriate Ferrites with alloys that match your metal detector specifications, for your testing purposes.

As you probably know, Toroid ferrites are donut shaped and Ring ferrites are cross-sectionally square, or maybe cross-sectionally rectangular with lightly chamfered edges. I would think the cross-sectional shape is just a matter of personal preference and secondary to the Ground Balance results from testing.

I plan to contact CWS, and Minelab in Australia if they have a Sales office in the U.S.A., for assistance. However, Minelab will no-doubt decline giving me technical information of this nature and will say “that’s proprietary company information” and I wouldn't blame them. But as the saying goes "nothing ventured, nothing gained", so I'll try.

Good luck to you Walt !

ToddB64