• Forum server maintanace Friday night.(around 7PM Centeral time)
    Website will be off line for a short while.

    You may need to log out, log back in after we're back online.

Do you follow up when you get no response to a request?

pryan67

Forum Supporter
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
2,576
Location
Northern Illinois
Do you follow up with an organization (church, scout camps, etc) if you don't get a response to your original request for permission to hunt their property?
 
When you say "get no response", then this tells me you probably cold called them and left a voice-mail on their recorder. Right ? Or found an email address and emailed them. Or snail-mailed them a letter. Or FB'd them, etc... Right ?

If so, then that was your first mistake. Because, think of it: What do YOU do when you get a solicitation (or what appears to be anyhow), from a total stranger ? You hit the delete button, right ? Or what do you do when you answer the phone, and it's a sales call ? You hang up, right ?

And not door knocking . Because, after all, what do YOU do with door-to-door solicitors ? You pretend your not home, or you say "no thank you" as you're closing the door on them. Hence cold calls and cold emails and cold letters are not the way to do it. You're much better off in person.

Catch them "out and about". Like "on their front porch" so-to-speak. Big smile.
 
Do you follow up with an organization (church, scout camps, etc) if you don't get a response to your original request for permission to hunt their property?

I'd take that as a solid YES! I mean, nobody officially said you couldnt right? Generally in Life and Love and Trespassing, No response to a 'permission request' is a green light...at my age, I dont even ask anymore....For what I want to do and its overall effect, Its not worth bothering somebody over...I consider myself a good Guy in this regard..
 
When you say "get no response", then this tells me you probably cold called them and left a voice-mail on their recorder. Right ? Or found an email address and emailed them. Or snail-mailed them a letter. Or FB'd them, etc... Right ?

If so, then that was your first mistake. Because, think of it: What do YOU do when you get a solicitation (or what appears to be anyhow), from a total stranger ? You hit the delete button, right ? Or what do you do when you answer the phone, and it's a sales call ? You hang up, right ?

And not door knocking . Because, after all, what do YOU do with door-to-door solicitors ? You pretend your not home, or you say "no thank you" as you're closing the door on them. Hence cold calls and cold emails and cold letters are not the way to do it. You're much better off in person.

Catch them "out and about". Like "on their front porch" so-to-speak. Big smile.


I've asked for three permissions via email that I didn't get a response to (web contact form actually)...of these only one (a church) could actually be walked up to and talk to someone which I will likely eventually do when I have time to get to that town (the church owns an old school property that's next door to them)
. The other two are organizations that don't have "offices" so to speak, so I'd have to track down board members, find their home addresses, figure out when they'd be home, and head over there and interrupt their personal lives. I figured that contacting them via their preferred method would be best.

Now, for the fairgrounds out here (privately owned property) I may be able to track someone down in person during the fair itself in August, but that will likely be a flunky and won't have the authority to grant permission. For the scout camp, it's closed and gated, and without specific permission I'd be trespassing.
 
Regarding gaining a solid 'yes' Permission.... We fall under the "If a tree falls in the Forest" well known and oft debated paradigm....as is applies to us......If nobody sees or hears you, were you even there to begin with? :laughing: NO!

Dont overthink this! Dont go looking for 'No's or you will certainly find them! Its a big Planet, coils are small, Time is short, its all about Timing!...Luckily, 'No's' have a short shelf life..meaning "Not right now"..."Yes's" are permanent until otherwise stipulated, so they are good to get and go after within reason...

So yeah, its good to get a Yes if you can, but mostly if a guy asks for anything its gonna be a No...No responses are "Yes's"...Nobody answers your door knock or email inquiry? Hunt away! Thats a solid Yes! :laughing:
 
Regarding gaining a solid 'yes' Permission.... We fall under the "If a tree falls in the Forest" well known and oft debated paradigm....as is applies to us......If nobody sees or hears you, were you even there to begin with? :laughing: NO!

Dont overthink this! Dont go looking for 'No's or you will certainly find them! Its a big Planet, coils are small, Time is short, its all about Timing!...Luckily, 'No's' have a short shelf life..meaning "Not right now"..."Yes's" are permanent until otherwise stipulated, so they are good to get and go after within reason...

So yeah, its good to get a Yes if you can, but mostly if a guy asks for anything its gonna be a No...No responses are "Yes's"...Nobody answers your door knock or email inquiry? Hunt away! Thats a solid Yes! :laughing:

Well, although I'm a Ninja (really, I've trained in what's commonly referred to as "ninjutsu", but is really the Bujinkan) I haven't mastered invisibility yet...and these places are out in the open (except the boy scout camp) so it would be hard not to be seen, except for by my blind friend I detect with...it's easy for me to not be seen by him.
 
... during the fair itself in August, .....

You gotta love Mud-puppies creative writing skills, eh ? :laughing:

Ok for fairgrounds: So you, or anyone, can simply be (gasp) standing/walking there during the fair. So you were not "trespassing", if it's open to the public then.

Ok, so what's to stop you from simply going during the post-cleanup days ? I own a street sweeper company. And as such: Have often been on the cleanup team with our equipment. And there's all the various concession people folding up and packing, the cleanup, etc... And as such: The gates are open.

In other words: Fairgrounds are not *only* open during the hustle/bustle fair. So go there and look for that ring you lost.

As for scout camps, I have hit many of them. When it's not the scout camp weekends, they are a ghost-town. I've just gone right in w/o issue. But if you really really need express "yes's", then as I say: ditch the cold-call method. Find someone "out on their front porch".
 
You gotta love Mud-puppies creative writing skills, eh ? :laughing:

Ok for fairgrounds: So you, or anyone, can simply be (gasp) standing/walking there during the fair. So you were not "trespassing", if it's open to the public then.

Ok, so what's to stop you from simply going during the post-cleanup days ? I own a street sweeper company. And as such: Have often been on the cleanup team with our equipment. And there's all the various concession people folding up and packing, the cleanup, etc... And as such: The gates are open.

In other words: Fairgrounds are not *only* open during the hustle/bustle fair. So go there and look for that ring you lost.

As for scout camps, I have hit many of them. When it's not the scout camp weekends, they are a ghost-town. I've just gone right in w/o issue. But if you really really need express "yes's", then as I say: ditch the cold-call method. Find someone "out on their front porch".



Well, for the fairgrounds, since it's owned by a private entity, and is gated and locked when not in use for events, I'd think that they'd have a pretty solid case of trespassing if I didn't have permission to be there from the owners.

I now have a direct contact for the scout camp (again, this one is gated, not open to the general public) so I think it will be simple to get the permission, especially since my son is a scout and I'd be bringing other scouts with me as well to teach them about the hobby.
 
Last fall I was driving through a small, old town and noticed a standing home on a corner lot that looked fantastic for detecting. The house was built in the mid to late 1800s and clearly not lived in anymore, but the lot was being cared for. I quickly tracked down the address for the property owner and drove out to visit them. As I approached their address, I noticed a utility bed truck pulling out of their driveway, but thought nothing of it and pulled in. “Perfect”, I thought, as I pulled into the driveway - a lady was already out front with a dog and young boy, so I knew I was less of an intrusion than a normal door knock. I introduced myself, and told the lady I was seeking permission to metal detect their interesting old home site in town. We had a great talk, I even had some sample finds with me from a previous hunt - some old coins and a token. She was fascinated, but wanted to make sure her husband was ok with it, too - unfortunately, he was the one who had just left in the utility bed truck! She said she would talk to him about it when he got home - she even asked me for my contact info before I offered it. I figured this was as close to a slam dunk as I could get without actually getting a “yes” on the spot! Well, needless to say, I never heard from them again :no:

So to the OPs original query - my decision on whether to follow up is highly dependent on the situation. One of the benefits of meeting someone face-to-face is you can more easily gage whether someone is truly interested or not, and if they are worth pestering again. In most cases, if someone says “I don’t know, let me ask so-in-so first and we’ll call you”, I’ll let it drop if I don’t hear from them. Too many other places to detect with less effort :grin: In the case I described above, though, I might go back to follow up when the weather warms up - the site looked too good, and the lady was just too genuinely interested not to try one more time. Maybe they truly forgot, or lost my contact info by the time they thought about it again.

One of the many problems with using email, contact forms, written letters, or other indirect communication like the OP describes is that you can’t be sure that your request was even received, let alone read. And you certainly don’t know what the reaction was, even if it was read. It’s hard to treat a situation like that as a “follow up” if you decide to ask again, and the awkward factor increases greatly. If they never received or read the previous request, you aren’t following up - it’s a cold call at that point and needs to be approached differently. If they did read it and chose to ignore the previous request, you’ve really opened yourself up to a potentially uncomfortable encounter.

The OPs situation is a little different on the surface because an organization is involved rather than an individual, but it’s still fundamentally the same - it’s always best to approach someone relevant within the organization face to face for the same reasons outlined above.
 
... since it's owned by a private entity,....

So too are shopping centers owned by "private entities". But I'll bet you stepped foot on a shopping center recently. So too are fairgrounds (as in the case of your present post) owned by "private entities". Yet .... gates are opened and people mill about at various times.

Why is md'ing so evil that it needs some sort of special sanction ? In the same way that if the topic of discussion was: "Can I whistle dixie at the fair or shopping center" something that spelled imminent doom ?
 
So too are shopping centers owned by "private entities". But I'll bet you stepped foot on a shopping center recently. So too are fairgrounds (as in the case of your present post) owned by "private entities". Yet .... gates are opened and people mill about at various times.

Why is md'ing so evil that it needs some sort of special sanction ? In the same way that if the topic of discussion was: "Can I whistle dixie at the fair or shopping center" something that spelled imminent doom ?



I couldn't go to a shopping center, break in (remember, this particular fair grounds is gated and locked when not in use), and start milling around looking for dropped change.

If it were like some other fairgrounds, a big, open field, no gates or locks, and publicly owned, then I wouldn't trouble myself to get permission, just like at public parks I don't ask for permission. I'd rather not be the one to get detecting banned in my area because I decided to climb a fence and trespass on private property.
 
Why is md'ing so evil that it needs some sort of special sanction ? In the same way that if the topic of discussion was: "Can I whistle dixie at the fair or shopping center" something that spelled imminent doom ?

I have been to fairs and shopping centers that whistling Dixie would spell imminent doom.
 
.... this particular fair grounds is gated and locked when not in use....

Then go there when the gate is open . I bet that the gates are wide open on the first day or two following a fair, so that the tear-down and cleanup crews are at work. Go there and look for the ring your wife lost .
 
I am genuinely shocked when people suggest someone go gallivanting on other people's property without permission.

If you are even concerned for .000001 seconds that you might need permission because you aren't sure, GET PERMISSION or find one of the other 40 million places there are to hunt. Email is great, its 2018...many people prefer this method and following up pays dividends just be polite.

honestly advice like Tom in CA's to just go into some strange place with a made up story about "looking for a lost ring" is shameful. Be respectful and give the hobby a good name.

Get permission, or find somewhere else to detect.
 
...other people's property without permission......

I think we have an "image" problem here. When you say "other people's property", it conjurs up images of fence hopping , and helping ones-self to someone's front yard.

I am in no way talking about those images. I'm talking the quasi-public feel places like fairgrounds. Other examples would be places that, like fairgrounds, no one thinks twice at (gasp) the notion of someone walking there. Eg.: along RR tracks, shopping centers, etc.....
 
I think we have an "image" problem here. When you say "other people's property", it conjurs up images of fence hopping , and helping ones-self to someone's front yard.

I am in no way talking about those images. I'm talking the quasi-public feel places like fairgrounds. Other examples would be places that, like fairgrounds, no one thinks twice at (gasp) the notion of someone walking there. Eg.: along RR tracks, shopping centers, etc.....

No matter how you spin it, it is someone else's property where it would be respectful to ask permission if one is unsure. And in the OP's case if really itching to detect it, follow up with the owner and ask again. just be polite.

Do good for the hobby, not for oneself and the "i know all the rules" ego.
 
... if one is unsure. ...

Well then I guess I'm not "unsure". I grew up 2 blocks away from the 4th largest Rodeo in the world. And , the grandstands, when not in use for rodeos, concerts, truck-pull rallies, etc... was often open (maintenance ? Equestrians going to ride their horses? I dunno) . And it wasn't unusual to see folks who'd walk their dog, or whatever on the grounds. It was some sort of quasi public place (An association that leases for $1 per year from the city, or whatever) .

And having a company (a street sweeper company) that does the post cleanup at various fairs, carnivals, shows, etc..., I have often detected during those post cleanup times. No one's paid me a 2nd glance. Although, I suppose, if they had, I'd have just said "I'm with the cleanup crew" and flashed my business card.
 
Well then I guess I'm not "unsure". I grew up 2 blocks away from the 4th largest Rodeo in the world. And , the grandstands, when not in use for rodeos, concerts, truck-pull rallies, etc... was often open (maintenance ? Equestrians going to ride their horses? I dunno) . And it wasn't unusual to see folks who'd walk their dog, or whatever on the grounds. It was some sort of quasi public place (An association that leases for $1 per year from the city, or whatever) .

And having a company (a street sweeper company) that does the post cleanup at various fairs, carnivals, shows, etc..., I have often detected during those post cleanup times. No one's paid me a 2nd glance. Although, I suppose, if they had, I'd have just said "I'm with the cleanup crew" and flashed my business card.

Remember Tom in CA, try to think outside of the box and put yourself in someone else's shoes. Not everyone is a garbage man who can claim they are part of the cleanup crew and get away with bending or breaking the rules without a second glance. Maybe the owner of the property in the OP post isn't as cool as the guy who owned your rodeo and doesn't want it to be a quasi public space when it's closed? just because you see other people using the space doesn't mean they are in the right. Would you jump off a bridge just because you saw other people doing it?? well maybe you would...poor question.

Again no matter how you spin it, it's better advice for the good of the hobby to be respectful and ask permission. Maybe you're ok with detecting wherever you want without permission but that is poor advice to give to someone else.
 
Again no matter how you spin it, it's better advice to be respectful and ask permission. Maybe you're ok with detecting wherever you want without permission but that is poor advice to give to someone else.

Valid point...A person has to recognize and understand their own limitations/skills...Its reckless to advise Master behaviors to the uneducated and unskilled...It can be honed at an early age by stealing vegetables out of gardens or vendors carts, picking pockets, smoking on school grounds, sneaking into venues without paying the gate...speeding, avoiding the Law, etc...These skills are translatable into other activities and important! Just like any tool/skill, They are not intrinsically 'bad' however...

Its about bravado, invisibleness, situational Awareness, risk measurement, and Timing...some people never get this no matter how hard they practice! :laughing: Ya just never know when you need them, used prudently, they do come in handy, germaine to this conversation, and applicable to this Sport and Life in general...

Case in point: I walk my little dog down at the local park daily...'leash laws' in effect, and also 'no smoking' signs posted...He jumps out of the car and runs around like he owns the place! I smoke heartily...Its a minor victory I know, but still, its a win, makes us both feel good.......:laughing: I do not recommend this scofflaw behavior to all dog owners, some people got no sense!...:laughing:
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom