Just placed on order for a NEL Thunder coil for my AT MAX

Well..I dont have all the answers you seek, but I do have a THUNDER on my AtPro...Since 'Time and Gold wait for Nobody'... I got the THUNDER with the strategy of "Covering more area faster"...

I use my Pro for Water Gold and beach hunting only........Never once flew it over the dirt in a park...I will say, you pop this thing on and do a few tests..the thing will hit your targets from bow to stern, and by employing certain coil manipulation techniques, you can pinpoint, hop coil, isolate targets effectively...So yeah, completely pleased with its performance!...

After that, as with all coils, multiple signals, isolating targets boils down to certain manipulation techniques....I believe Skippy has a Thunder on his rig? He hunts parks and knocks the stink outta them...

I will say, it is a bit of a B on the arm though, probably due to the stupid Pro stock S shaft more than anything...a guy has to settle down and not try to overpower it...not ergonomic...too much weight ahead of your hand what with the 4 AA batts and all...

If NEL were smart, they'd make that coil cable length about 2' longer, so a guy could mount the Pro brains on their hip!...Now THAT would be something! Or somebody come up with an extension cable?..I'd be a buyer of something like that!.

Stiffwrists said:

I'm looking forward to covering a larger area a little quicker and maybe hit a few deeper silver coins in the old ballparks. For anyone who has the Thunder:

Have you noticed any change in the VDI numbers?
Do you get a more accurate VDI number on deeper targets?
Did it affect how you pinpoint targets?
Did you lose any ability to separate multiple targets?
Did you notice greater depth?


Thanks

Click to expand...

Hey Stiffwrists. I'm running the NEL Thunder on my AT Max. I was running it on my AT Pro previously.

I don't know if it's the AT Max, or the coil (because I never connected and used the stock coil), but I've definitely seen a shift in the VDI numbers.

VDI
Pennies used to be 75/76 and now they're more around 72, and as low as 68.

Quarters used to be 85, and now they're consistently 82/83.

Pinpointing

No difference here, it's a DD coil. Just wiggle backwards, and it's right at the tip. Very easy to do.

Target separation:
It's a bigger coil, but still a DD. Target separation with the Hunter is on par with the Target separation of the Stock coil. The only difference is that you "can" catch additional targets in the extra length of the coil (for example, I had two quarters lined up yesterday... It seemed I had to wiggle backwards a LONNNGGG way before I hit the end of it. But then the next swing revealed the second quarter... so again, not a big deal. In fact, I personally think the NEL coils do a BETTER job of pulling targets off iron. I've found gold right on top of iron with the NEL coils, that I KNEW I didn't hear with the stock AT PRo (the advantage of having hunted a park several dozen times before hitting it with the NEL).

Greater Depth?

OH YEAH. LOTS. I have to reduce the sensitivity by two bars to have roughly the same depth as what I was running on stock. Bigger coil = more depth.


One of the biggest problems you'll have is the Thunder coil is HEAVIER. I strongly recommend you start swinging without the coil cover on, to begin with, until you can hunt 2 hours without problems. Otherwise, you'll be tempted to never use it. The extra weight is a beast...

The first time I took it out, I couldn't go more than 45 minutes before my arm started aching. I eventually got back up to about 4 hours, but it was a few months. I discovered, that when I took the coil cover off, at the beach, I instantly picked up another couple of hours of swing time.

At the one year mark, I'm back to 6 hours... but it was definitely a switch! And I was coming from the NEL Hunter, too... you're in for a "treat" the first time you take that big coil out.

On the flip-side, you'll cover ~50% more each swing, so you'll have ample opportunity to stop and dig to recover.

I LOVE my NEL Thunder. It's the best of everything I could hope for.

Cheers,

Skippy

Mud-puppy said:

Well..I dont have all the answers you seek, but I do have a THUNDER on my AtPro...Since 'Time and Gold wait for Nobody'... I got the THUNDER with the strategy of "Covering more area faster"...

I use my Pro for Water Gold and beach hunting only........Never once flew it over the dirt in a park...I will say, you pop this thing on and do a few tests..the thing will hit your targets from bow to stern, and by employing certain coil manipulation techniques, you can pinpoint, hop coil, isolate targets effectively...So yeah, completely pleased with its performance!...

After that, as with all coils, multiple signals, isolating targets boils down to certain manipulation techniques....I believe Skippy has a Thunder on his rig? He hunts parks and knocks the stink outta them...

I will say, it is a bit of a B on the arm though, probably due to the stupid Pro stock S shaft more than anything...a guy has to settle down and not try to overpower it...not ergonomic...too much weight ahead of your hand what with the 4 AA batts and all...

If NEL were smart, they'd make that coil cable length about 2' longer, so a guy could mount the Pro brains on their hip!...Now THAT would be something! Or somebody come up with an extension cable?..I'd be a buyer of something like that!.

Click to expand...

Skippy SH13 said:

Hey Stiffwrists. I'm running the NEL Thunder on my AT Max. I was running it on my AT Pro previously.

I don't know if it's the AT Max, or the coil (because I never connected and used the stock coil), but I've definitely seen a shift in the VDI numbers.

VDI
Pennies used to be 75/76 and now they're more around 72, and as low as 68.

Quarters used to be 85, and now they're consistently 82/83.

Pinpointing

No difference here, it's a DD coil. Just wiggle backwards, and it's right at the tip. Very easy to do.

Target separation:
It's a bigger coil, but still a DD. Target separation with the Hunter is on par with the Target separation of the Stock coil. The only difference is that you "can" catch additional targets in the extra length of the coil (for example, I had two quarters lined up yesterday... It seemed I had to wiggle backwards a LONNNGGG way before I hit the end of it. But then the next swing revealed the second quarter... so again, not a big deal. In fact, I personally think the NEL coils do a BETTER job of pulling targets off iron. I've found gold right on top of iron with the NEL coils, that I KNEW I didn't hear with the stock AT PRo (the advantage of having hunted a park several dozen times before hitting it with the NEL).

Greater Depth?

OH YEAH. LOTS. I have to reduce the sensitivity by two bars to have roughly the same depth as what I was running on stock. Bigger coil = more depth.


One of the biggest problems you'll have is the Thunder coil is HEAVIER. I strongly recommend you start swinging without the coil cover on, to begin with, until you can hunt 2 hours without problems. Otherwise, you'll be tempted to never use it. The extra weight is a beast...

The first time I took it out, I couldn't go more than 45 minutes before my arm started aching. I eventually got back up to about 4 hours, but it was a few months. I discovered, that when I took the coil cover off, at the beach, I instantly picked up another couple of hours of swing time.

At the one year mark, I'm back to 6 hours... but it was definitely a switch! And I was coming from the NEL Hunter, too... you're in for a "treat" the first time you take that big coil out.

On the flip-side, you'll cover ~50% more each swing, so you'll have ample opportunity to stop and dig to recover.

I LOVE my NEL Thunder. It's the best of everything I could hope for.

Cheers,

Skippy

Click to expand...

Thank you both SO much for taking the time to respond. Skippy, I'll let you know how the VDI numbers hit for me. Maybe the difference comes from using the same Thunder Coil on your PRO and MAX. Supposedly there is a different coil for each. It really doesn't matter though as long as it works and YOU know what the sounds and numbers most likely mean.

I'm interested in seeing how my arm holds up. I'll take your advice and not start with an 8 hour hunt. Thanks again!

Good luck and happy days.

Stiffwrists said:

Thank you both SO much for taking the time to respond. Skippy, I'll let you know how the VDI numbers hit for me. Maybe the difference comes from using the same Thunder Coil on your PRO and MAX. Supposedly there is a different coil for each. It really doesn't matter though as long as it works and YOU know what the sounds and numbers most likely mean.

I'm interested in seeing how my arm holds up. I'll take your advice and not start with an 8 hour hunt. Thanks again!

Click to expand...

yeah, I was a little nervous about the coil readings... as I'd read the coil wasn't built quite the same... But I, frankly, haven't had issues! Mostly, because in the end, it's not about the specific number, it's about the consistency of the number. Even between AT Pro systems, I'd often see 1 VDI difference on the same coil, same object, and same ground balance. Slight differences in manufacturing and firmware will do that. It's a complete non-issue for me, other than the fact that pennies aren't "quite" as easy to rule out as pennies as before.

But here's the good thing about the coil and the AT Max... I've found that I've been able to weed about 3x more TRASH out of the signal set. The amount of additional information in the ears is staggering. I can readily identify aluminum can shrapnel now, in a way that I couldn't before. I dig much less trash, and it only takes a swing or 3 to immediately ignore stuff. Sounds on the AT Max are extra clear on real signals. I'm growing to love it. Hated it, at first, but my son noted I felt the same way about the AT Pro when I got it. I felt horribly slow at detecting, as I had to dig everything once again... I'm catching up fast, and with more than a half-dozen rings in the bag now, since last Tuesday (when I got the AT Max!) I'm getting more confident on what those sound like, too.

I figure 100 hours to become as good with the AT Max as I was with the AT Pro, and then 500 to really master that sucker.

Cheers

Skippy

Skippy SH13 said:

yeah, I was a little nervous about the coil readings... as I'd read the coil wasn't built quite the same... But I, frankly, haven't had issues! Mostly, because in the end, it's not about the specific number, it's about the consistency of the number. Even between AT Pro systems, I'd often see 1 VDI difference on the same coil, same object, and same ground balance. Slight differences in manufacturing and firmware will do that. It's a complete non-issue for me, other than the fact that pennies aren't "quite" as easy to rule out as pennies as before.

But here's the good thing about the coil and the AT Max... I've found that I've been able to weed about 3x more TRASH out of the signal set. The amount of additional information in the ears is staggering. I can readily identify aluminum can shrapnel now, in a way that I couldn't before. I dig much less trash, and it only takes a swing or 3 to immediately ignore stuff. Sounds on the AT Max are extra clear on real signals. I'm growing to love it. Hated it, at first, but my son noted I felt the same way about the AT Pro when I got it. I felt horribly slow at detecting, as I had to dig everything once again... I'm catching up fast, and with more than a half-dozen rings in the bag now, since last Tuesday (when I got the AT Max!) I'm getting more confident on what those sound like, too.

I figure 100 hours to become as good with the AT Max as I was with the AT Pro, and then 500 to really master that sucker.

Cheers

Skippy

Click to expand...

Thanks Skippy. I WAS wondering how well you transitioned from the Pro to the Max. I've read a lot of reviews about how PRO users struggled with liking the Max. I went from the Ace series to the AT Max, so I really was expecting quite the learning curve. At first, the Max seemed somewhat unstable and ultra sensitive to everything. Its amazing what happens when you put the time in to learn any machine's language. I'm now to the point that I typically run the Max full sensitivity and discrimination pretty wide open. I actually enjoy manually knocking the ground balance down a few points to have it run a little hotter. Really looking forward to running the Thunder! Might have to dig more junk initially to confirm the VDI numbers and get a feel for the weight increase, but it will be exciting.

Stiffwrists said:

Thanks Skippy. I WAS wondering how well you transitioned from the Pro to the Max. I've read a lot of reviews about how PRO users struggled with liking the Max. I went from the Ace series to the AT Max, so I really was expecting quite the learning curve. At first, the Max seemed somewhat unstable and ultra sensitive to everything. Its amazing what happens when you put the time in to learn any machine's language. I'm now to the point that I typically run the Max full sensitivity and discrimination pretty wide open. I actually enjoy manually knocking the ground balance down a few points to have it run a little hotter. Really looking forward to running the Thunder! Might have to dig more junk initially to confirm the VDI numbers and get a feel for the weight increase, but it will be exciting.

Click to expand...

That's quite the switch going from ACE to AT Max. Going to the AT Pro from the ACE series was tough enough. The amount of chatter in your ears probably was incredibly confusing at first.

That chatter is music to my ears, now. The ability to weed out foil, and trash targets is insane on the AT Max. I have found I cannot swing "quite" as fast as I could with the AT Pro, but I make up for it in fewer trash targets dug.

One of the things I could recommend do you, going from the ACE series to the AT Max, is the same thing that I'd recommend for anyone getting a new rig: Just dig it all up to confirm or deny your predictions. And MAKE predictions. out loud if you have to. That's how you'll learn faster. If you only dig things up to see what they are, instead of trying to guess, you'll put your brain in a pattern of not looking for patterns. By trying to guess what's coming out, you'll find your brain locks in certain things.

Yesterday, as I was digging in a school yard, I consistently said things to myself, like, "this one will be a corroded zinc penny" and "this one is a copper penny." Or sometimes "This one is either a copper penny or a dime." and eventually, I was able to get to "this is definitely a dime."

I can pick out ferrules (the ends of the pencil tops) with a nice degree of regularity, and bottle caps are a no-brainer now. I do still get surprised with weird signals, though...

For example, Yesterday, I dug a 75 signal that sounded too sweet to be a penny, and on top of that, it had a weird low signal bounce. I actually couldn't even GUESS what that was... Turns out it was a quarter and a nickle together. Later that day, I ran across the same signal sequence, but the number was a bit higher. I just called out "Coin spill" A quarter and two pennies, stacked. Being able to pick that out of the dirt is lovely.

The best signals of the day, were all 4 rings, a half-dozen pendants, and a few soccer pin-type thigns. They rang up so solid and clear, that I'm really beefing up my confidence on this rigs ability to pull jewelry. They hit HARD... even when it's a tiny little 1/2 gram silver butterfly (as I discovered last Saturday with a 70 signal).

With the AT Pro, signals weren't that "in your face" as they are with the AT Max, when you can get the coil over it. I'd catch better edges with the AT Pro (it's slightly more obvious when a target is beneath the coil). For you though, the difference will be STARK... coming from bell-tone.

Just watch for how the signal is repeatable..> And even dig up the ones you're SURE are trash for the first two dozen digs in a park. I always do that, just to be sure I have a good read on the park's nuances (some parks' dirt can alter the VDI and sounds of targets). It keeps your brain sharp, too, as you predict each of the first two dozen diggable signals. If you get them all correct, it's MUCH easier to dismiss trash the rest of the day.

Cheers,

I know this thread is a couple of years old, but is the consensus still that this is the best large size coil for the ATMax? I've got a couple of larger areas that I want to search this spring and a larger coil is on the shopping list.

Any response on experiences would be helpful!

Couple years old, for sure! I almost re-answered everything LOL.

Skippy