Alabama detecting - mineralization?

Renee

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Even though I mentioned this in another post of mine, I thought I would start a new thread about it to generate more discussion about such. I just want to make sure I do as much research and asking question before I "take the plunge and buy".
I live in Northern Alabama. The ground here is pretty hard. It also has a lot of mineralization, or so I think. Are there any other Alabama folks out there that can shed some light on that? I want to make sure I get the right detector for the kind of area I am in. Some of the detectors I am considering are the Garrett Ace 250, Ace 350, Fisher F5, and Teknetics EuroTek Pro. Which of these would do best in such situation? Or maybe a suggestion of some other model that would do well? I am looking at a budget of around $350.
 
Even though I mentioned this in another post of mine, I thought I would start a new thread about it to generate more discussion about such. I just want to make sure I do as much research and asking question before I "take the plunge and buy".
I live in Northern Alabama. The ground here is pretty hard. It also has a lot of mineralization, or so I think. Are there any other Alabama folks out there that can shed some light on that? I want to make sure I get the right detector for the kind of area I am in. Some of the detectors I am considering are the Garrett Ace 250, Ace 350, Fisher F5, and Teknetics EuroTek Pro. Which of these would do best in such situation? Or maybe a suggestion of some other model that would do well? I am looking at a budget of around $350.

The bad...Alabama has some of the worst soil in the country for doing this hobby.

The good...some areas are worse than others, where I lived in the Birmingham area we had that severe mineralization plus the added bonus of naturally occurring veins of iron ore and particles of iron infused into most of the soil that limited our depth even more, the northern part of the state didn't have so much of a problem with that extra iron as we did and seemed to average a couple more inches in depth than the 3-5" we could get in Birmingham.
At most of my sites even getting to that 5" depth level was a struggle most of the time, but there were some areas in the valleys and other areas that did have better soil that we came across from time to time.

Also good...none of that really mattered, no matter where hunters lived we all still managed to find great targets, jewelry, coins, even silver coins, but you have to understand the environment, how it affects our detectors and be smart about sites you pick to hunt.

As far as digging in that clay filled devil dirt during the hot summer months with very little rain and in that soil that basically turns hard as cement during drought times...get a good and strong digger like a Lesche.
Not much else works very well or for very long in the dry times, or for me no other types ever did or lasted more than a few hunts.

There is a social group here about hunting in mineralized soil that Ryan Chappell started because he lives in B'Ham and still hunts there.
Here is a link to some great info about hunting in that very challenging soil, if you can't read it you just have to join the group and then you can.
http://metaldetectingforum.com/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=775

Basically depth will be limited in most areas compared to normal soil states, and even if you do use a machine that can get deeper than the average 5" even non ferrous objects might show up as ferrous so you need to learn this and dig a lot.
Some use PI machines to combat these problems and get deeper, but they present their own set of problems, sometimes, and usually aren't cheap.
I found a few very old sites that had so much history you would drool at even the thought of hunting them, but the totally frustrating experience of not being able to reach the depth needed with any VLF unit to find those targets had me thinking hard about getting into a PI unit and if I still lived there that is what I probably would have done, eventually.
Even if I used that type at only a few of these loaded but extremely problem plagued sites.

Ryan Chappell has both an Xterra 305 and then upgraded to an E-Trac because he is nuts about finding silver coins, he is pretty successful but even with this high end machine the reason he finds more than I ever did is because he thinks outside the box when he looks for special out of the way sites...washout areas, old apartments and homes that have never been hunted, and others.

I decided that was a little too much work so long ago I turned into a jewelry hunter because that can be anywhere including in public parks I usually hunted, and usually isn't very deep or at least there was a lot of it within range of my detectors that I could find pretty easily.
Still found some older coins like a few Indian heads and even silver coins from time to time but that was just luck and I rarely looked for them.

Hunters like Bamadigtab also live there and are very successful at finding lots of great old targets and coins, including lots of silver, but he does it by knocking on doors and hunting private home sites that might have a little more depth than public areas because of slightly better soil with less of those iron particles and also more targets to roll your coil over.
He has lots of vids, here is one of them, and like I said he is very successful so if you contact him or Ryan Chappell I am sure they can give you some more info on hunting in that state.
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=154692

Using detectors with manual ground balance is usually recommended in heavy mineralization to get you the best chance at depth, a DD coil vs. a concentric type might add a bit more because they handle mineralization a little better, but to get a machine with both of these features at that $350 range will be tough new...even used.

It was so bad where I lived that my Vaquero with manual GB AND a large DD coil, my F2 with neither of those things, a Compadre , Ryan Chappell's 305 and his E Trac and all the Whites units the club guys use in that area all got about the same pitiful depth in the worst of that stuff so it was an even playing field for all of us.
Like I said, if you are in the north you will probably have a little more depth possibilities than we did.

Even with all the problems we all still had a great time, found some amazing things and were all happy we entered into this hobby even if we had to hunt in that more difficult and challenging environment.

I eventually moved to Kansas with much better soil, almost perfect as a matter of fact, and can now easily reach depths of 7-8-9-10, even 12" and more depending on the detector I use so as you can imagine I am in heaven.
After hunting in some of the worst soil in the country and then changing to areas with some of the best you can say I am one member here that has some experience with different soil types that others rarely do and I am thrilled and very grateful for the unusual experience of hunting in both.

I used not only a Vaquero but eventually over time used a Compadre and more often than not an F2 with no manual GB or DD coil in that bad dirt and still did extremely well so you just have to pick one and get out there and hunt and you will find great things and get even better as you learn.


The F5 is a great machine, I am a big fan of Fisher units, but way over your price point and even higher if you want a DD coil for it as an option.
That unit also could have a bit of a learning curve that can be conquered, but even some veterans with experience using other detectors took some time doing that.
The Aces are pretty popular and you can get that 350 with a DD coil, but personally I would always pick a unit that had not only icons but much more important and useful to me some VDI numbers on the screen when comparing different brands in similar price ranges.
You would not believe how helpful those numbers can be and especially to a newbie but also a veteran hunter.
If I was just starting over again and lived in that area with your price range I would look at an F2 with the DD coil, or actually I would look even harder at the Euro Tek Pro with the regular coil and maybe even the E T Pro with a DD coil as one of your best shots at the most efficient hunting tool that will come somewhere near your stated price point requirement.
This was a choice that was unavailable to me when I bought the F2 back in 2010, and as an entry unit the Pro has set a new bar in the area of features and benefits of those features at this price range.
The DD coil will help, no manual GB but it seems to still work very well and efficiently in mineralized bad soil without it according to reports.
Hopefully, it would work well in even the super mineralization you might be dealing with but maybe someone in your area that uses one will chime in about this.
The Pro with a DD coil comes in at about the $300 range which leaves you enough left over to get a quality digger.
Check with our sponsors here and see what kind of a deal you can get in a package deal with both tools.
A high end handheld pinpointer like a Propointer is not cheap and can be really helpful but the Harbor Freight cheap one worked well for me too as a great tool when I started out and if you want to get to that high end you will eventually find enough clad to do that when you get out there and start digging.
 
Even though I mentioned this in another post of mine, I thought I would start a new thread about it to generate more discussion about such. I just want to make sure I do as much research and asking question before I "take the plunge and buy".
I live in Northern Alabama. The ground here is pretty hard. It also has a lot of mineralization, or so I think. Are there any other Alabama folks out there that can shed some light on that? I want to make sure I get the right detector for the kind of area I am in. Some of the detectors I am considering are the Garrett Ace 250, Ace 350, Fisher F5, and Teknetics EuroTek Pro. Which of these would do best in such situation? Or maybe a suggestion of some other model that would do well? I am looking at a budget of around $350.

Anytime you have a machine with an adjustable ground balance you will get better target ID, depth, machine stability and over all better performance. Out of the ones you listed the Fisher F5 is the only one with that. Rest are a fixed ground balance.


Holler at us if you have more questions! Be glad to help!
 
Ill say x2 for calling Big Boys. I've placed 5 orders with them since first of the year! Every transaction was effortless and pleasant!
 
re:

Thanks all for the info, and especially to DIGGER27 for the very in depth reply. I am now wondering if I should save up a few more pennies and go for the F5 or something else with manual ground balance. In the meantime I can do more research, reading, and learn more about hunting in such conditions.
When I was into the hobby eons ago I lived up in IL. The dirt there was really nice to dig in with no problems with mineralization of the ground. So learning how to hunt in the dirt here in AL is going to be a challenge! :-)
 
Thanks all for the info, and especially to DIGGER27 for the very in depth reply. I am now wondering if I should save up a few more pennies and go for the F5 or something else with manual ground balance. In the meantime I can do more research, reading, and learn more about hunting in such conditions.
When I was into the hobby eons ago I lived up in IL. The dirt there was really nice to dig in with no problems with mineralization of the ground. So learning how to hunt in the dirt here in AL is going to be a challenge! :-)

In my area the problems were so bad that maybe manual GB might have helped quiet down my Vaq a bit, but to this day I am not really sure and I got no better depth with that than I did with my other detectors with pre-set GB.
All were not all that noisy either, except for a BH unit that just couldn't seem to handle that soil in the least and I had falsing all of the time.
North ALA. soil is a bit better regarding mineralization, but not IL. better.



If you want a good idea about the F5 and how it works, go here and download the F5 tips and tricks bible at the bottom.
Must reading for every F5 owner.

Lots of advice gathered by Sven from posts from Mike Hillis, a guru with this thing.

http://www.treasurelinx.com/fisher.html
 
Renee,
I often find myself advising people to skip from a F2 to a AT Pro, and not to get a $300 detector. The best used detector in your price range for our situation is probably an XLT, but you may not be able to find one, and it may be less user friendly than an ATPro. Maybe there are some used AT Pros out there?

I do not believe GB is what helps the higher end machines in our soil, but there is definitely an advantage to getting a better machine, especially if you are looking for silver. What helps is the better discrimination, and coin identification circuitry. The $350 machines are not that much improved in this circuitry than the $200 machines. Now once you start getting into the $600+ detectors like the AT Pro, DFX, MXT, this starts helping you...

Their are iron ore deposits running from Birmingham to Chattanooga in a couple of mountain ridges that run. North Alabama, especially to the west is a little bit better than Birmingham, but the silver coins are probably an inch or two deeper. Here I am averaging finding silver coins at 2.5" up there it was routinely 5". This could be because the soil is better or because it looser.

At $200 you have the F2 (Nice 99 slot numeric VDI for low end, but you will be limited close to the surface) Ace 250 (might have better depth, but less ID slots and not numeric), and Eurotek Pro (Numeric I have heard that it compares well to the other two)

$300-400 Minelab 305 (good GB machine, I didn't find silver with mine in 5 months got an etrac and found many) F5 comparable? didn't I hear the F5 was similar to the F2? the ACE 350 is an Ace 250 with a large DD coil. I do not think coils larger than 9" are an advantage in my soil, it may be better up where you are.

Relic hunters are using gold nugget hunting PI machines with a lot of success, but those cost $1000-$6000. PIs do not have the discrimination that VFI (common hobbiest) machines do, but these civil war relic hunters are out in fields and looking for iron, lead, and brass, and digging a wide range of targets anyway. Even if you are relic hunting this is probably a very difficult way to get back into the hobby, but I mention it because this is the only way to find a target deeper than 6" consistently around here.
 
re: Ryan

Ryan, how does one know if a detector has better discrimination? Is there something to look for in the specs? As for ground balance, do you think the manual and auto ground balance machines do better then those with fixed ground balance? And what about manual vs auto ground balance? It sounds like I would be better off waiting a while more and saving up more pennies to get something like an AT Pro or maybe F5 then. What about older detectors? In your opinion do you think some of the old ones work as well, or maybe better, in highly mineralized ground than newer ones? If I look at some older detectors which would be the ones to check out for the AL ground situation? Although, I think I really want to do new, because of the warranty coverage etc.
 
One more question

Ryan, one more question...some of the detectors you mentioned in your post have fixed ground balance. Are you saying that this doesn't matter much if the detector has good discrimination and target ID? Just wanting to clarify....
 
Old or new?

I forgot to mention that I still have my old detectors too. One is a Whites's Coinmaster 2900 and the other is a White's Coinmaster 6000/Di Pro. They both need some work on them such as cleaning, maybe tuning, etc. They just don't seem to be working correctly. Maybe all the mineralization is throwing them off? Would it be worth it to fix them and save up for something better later on maybe? Or forgo fixing, them as that money can go towards something new and better. How do the old detectors compare to the new ones? I an guessing that the new technology beats the old hands down.
 
Ryan, one more question...some of the detectors you mentioned in your post have fixed ground balance. Are you saying that this doesn't matter much if the detector has good discrimination and target ID? Just wanting to clarify....

Fixed ground balance means you cant adjust the machine to compensate for different ground mineralization.

Discrimination is what the machine can identify or not identify correctly as junk targets and ignore.

Feel free to call me with questions, love to help you! Bart
 
Born and raised in the saw grass area of the great state of Bama. Our area is pretty sandy and easy digging.
 
Btw. An excellent way to think of highly mineralized soil is to half the effective depth. Detecting a coin in 4 inches of my soil is roughly like finding a coin in 8" of midwest easy soil. People in Ohio, Oklahoma, Nebraska think we are crazy or doing something wrong, because they cannot begin to imagine how bad it can be around here. The closest thing I have ever seen to their soil are the gulf coast beaches, which are among the best in the world as far as cleanness and sand purity. Think sugar.

Ryan, how does one know if a detector has better discrimination? Is there something to look for in the specs?

By opinion and reviews on forums.

Spec-wise you could see that the F2 has numeric VDI and has 99 slots, but with depth all VLF machines become less accurate on the VDI indication (and sound) and near their detection limit coins register as a low VDI like brass, bottlecaps, pull tabs, and nails. So if you have have discrimination on a 6 inch deep dime might not be detectable in a particular soil by an F2, but an ATPro or an etrac might still be registering it as a dime, deeper. These machines also have a better ability to see a dime next to a nail. An F2 might only see the nail, but the better machines might register an iffy dime signal. A lot of those iffy signals turn out to be just nails as well...

Don't get me wrong the 305 is a lot more fun to use than the Tracker, but so is the F2. The 305 does have some advantages, and was deeper than the F2, but not a whole lot.

My statement was "What helps is the better discrimination, and coin identification circuitry" and I meant it as apposed to ground balance, and in the context of Alabama Mineralized soil. I also meant this generally, that the better machines that are better at these two things find more silver coins in our soil, because they lock in on the coins better.

My sentiment is that you have to be a more patient and persistant person to detect in Alabama, and a lot of the metal detecting capability of the equipment used here is wasted, by the harsh soil, but higher end equipment still finds more silver.


[/QUOTE]
As for ground balance, do you think the manual and auto ground balance machines do better then those with fixed ground balance? And what about manual vs auto ground balance?

I really saw no improvement in my soil because of ground balance. Just the better detector in general. Ground balance probably helps a lot in moderate to lightly mineralized soil.


Honestly the BH Tracker IV had very similar detection ability to the $400 Minelab 305. The 305 is just a lot prettier, has more indicators, 11 slots?, vs 3? depth indication, 12 tones? vs 3... Do not confuse the Tracker IV with the Quicksilver. The quicksilver is terrible. (You can get both for $130 at Academy sports, but Hobby Lobby has the Tracker IV for $65 if you use their 40% coupon...)

It sounds like I would be better off waiting a while more and saving up more pennies to get something like an AT Pro or maybe F5 then. What about older detectors? In your opinion do you think some of the old ones work as well, or maybe better, in highly mineralized ground than newer ones? If I look at some older detectors which would be the ones to check out for the AL ground situation? Although, I think I really want to do new, because of the warranty coverage etc.

I think you are better off with one of the $200 detectors than your old whites, which look very antiquated. The detectors improved a lot in the 1990s. I am not sure when the XLT came out, but I have heard rumors that Minelab acquired some of the technology that whites didn't want to pursue, and produced detectors based on that. The Explorer's which are basically the predecessor to the etrac have been around 10 years, Those are still very viable detectors, just to give you some idea. There is a whites expert on findmall and other forums that was a whites dealer, and has been detecting ~40 years, Monte. He said the XLT was one of his favorite detectors ever, and he had to sell it when the V3i came out so he wouldn't look hypocritical selling the V3i, but wishes he never sold it. The XLT has some advantage in our soil, maybe its single frequency is better than multiple...

Cowboy26a had some old whites detectors like yours, and an eagle a little newer. He said they dated to the early 1990s, when he quit the hobby. He started back a couple of years ago and did not use them again getting an etrac. I wish he has some comparison to a lower end machine. I have heard him say that the machines in the 1980s never found coins deeper than an inch or two deep in our soil...
 
Thanks once more!

Thanks everyone for the answers. It gives me a lot to think about. But right off the bat I think I will sell the old detectors maybe and put that money towards something newer. Even if it takes me a little while more to get a new detector, at least I will be getting something really good that will work in the soil here.
 
Another thing is that you already know that you like the hobby enough from detecting hundreds of hours decades ago, to spend a little bit more. If you know any one in the us armed forces there are some sub $500 deal through afrees.com. Check and be sure an f5 I'd better than the first in the ways I mentioned above.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 
Tesoro's

Just curious what everyone's thoughts are about using Tesoro's in heavily mineralized soil? Not really considering one at this point as I think I would like something with some sort of meter or target ID on it. Just curious as to what thoughts are about this brand.
 
Just curious what everyone's thoughts are about using Tesoro's in heavily mineralized soil? Not really considering one at this point as I think I would like something with some sort of meter or target ID on it. Just curious as to what thoughts are about this brand.

I used a Vaquero with both the standard 9" concentric and the 10X12" DD coil, and an F2 and a Compadre at many of the same sites around Birmingham.
I believe the manual GB on the Vaq did help as far as noise and chatter, there were some areas, in one particular park, anyway, where I actually had to GB every 10 feet because the ground changed so much so quickly at that site.

As far as depth, still not so sure that the Vaq really got all that much deeper with either coil than my other two.
That Vaq will go deep, it does here in my much better soil and crazy deep even with a sniper coil, and back in Bama in a tot lot with chips and no mineralization I once had a clear, solid signal on a tiny pocket rivet off of a small child's pair of jeans that was somewhere in the area of about 12" in depth.
There were a couple of areas with good soil where even the F2 found me clear signals on dimes at the 7" or so depth level, maybe a little closer to 8"...but that was rare.

Be that as it may, just about every target I ever dug in the time I hunted all over that area was usually no more than 3- 4" deep, maybe 5" on a good day in moist soil but there were not a lot of those even when I used the Vaq.

Still found a ton of great targets, not everything is super deep out there, but the easy silver in our area was scooped up long ago in most public areas by hunters hitting these sites for over 40 years.
Even the old machines that couldn't get so deep could find a lot of that stuff when it was still there, but now it is a bit more challenging to find silver coins in those public areas no matter what tools you use.

Again, that is why I switched over to being a jewelry hunter.
Didn't have much problem finding that and in the 18 months I hunted there I still found a few silver coins, a relic or two, a couple of Indian, about $200 in clad and enough jewelry and other great targets like some old tokens and other things that kept me happy and satisfied.

I am sure there are still many places where the good stuff like silver is still hiding, knocking on doors and hunting private property would be one such type of site, probably some out of the way areas in public sites too, like in the woods.
You just have to find them and get your coil over them.
 
Just curious what everyone's thoughts are about using Tesoro's in heavily mineralized soil? Not really considering one at this point as I think I would like something with some sort of meter or target ID on it. Just curious as to what thoughts are about this brand.

Bonesquat would use his compadre to go back over the sites he hunted with his etrac and find a surprising amount of stuff. Each would find stuff the other missed. Coil size is huge. I like using a 6x8" DD coil. I think a midsize coil does better in the bad soil a lot of times, balancing separation of items with some depth.

A small coil is better at separating items that are close together, like seeing a coin next to a nail, but doesn't go as deep. Rule of thumb is width is approximately = to depth, but you can cut that in half in my soil. A large coil goes deeper, and covers more space quicker, but makes it harder to find a coin next to junk. Higher end detectors can separate these items electronically, even with a large coil, but a smaller coil on these machines makes them even more effective at than, but at the cost of depth.

Separation is huge and a big reason that higher end machines find a lot more silver.
 
Renee, here is what my experience was. As mentioned before, all my experience until this week was using my ACE250 in Dallas/Ft. Worth area which has pretty neutral soil. The past 5 days, I have been hunting my families 1895 homestead in NE Alabama near Lickskillet.

I must say I was very pleased!! I thought I was going to have a lot of problems due to others statements regarding mineralization in the soil. I was able to run my sensitivity at one bar below max and even max most of the time with the detector running rather quietly. That being said, I did feel that I wasn't getting the same depth in that area as I do in Ft. Worth with the same set up. This could very well be attributed to mineralization. I did also notice that rusty iron falsed more often than it does in Ft. Worth. In fact, I almost never dig iron due to falsing in Ft. Worth but dug quit a bit in Ft. Payne. I did run my 5x8 DD and my 6x9 concentric coil while there and they both performed similarly. In all, I would consider the hunt a success. I found coins and some other cool stuff, but I don't want to give away much more until I post the results in a separate post. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks Firebird

Thanks Firebird! Yes, it does help me a lot! It tells me that I really don't have to get an overly expensive detector to do some casual detecting. Will look for your post in the finds area. Can't wait to see what you came up with!
 
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