Etrac Quick Mask and/or TTF???

I only have 100 hours on mine but...

Quick Mask allows you (in my case) to switch from a screen with discrimination - I run TTF and UK Roman pattern in trashy areas - to a wide open all metal screen with NO discrimination. That way you see and hear ALL the targets in the ground.

Get Andy Sabisch's book on the E-Trac, it'll help you a ton.

When you say "all" the targets...meaning >1, I'm not seeing or grasping that. It seems like there is only one target with both, high Fe and Co values. I'm not sensing multiple targets with different sets of values???

What pattern are you using? Any target that is in the disc'ed out area of the pattern is what causes the "nulling out" of the threshold. You don't get an accurate ID this way, but if you switch to quick mask and have the screen wide open, then you'll get the correct Fe/Co numbers AND tone when you swing over that target that a moment ago caused the null.

If you look at the picture below, on the left is a nail scanned in the stock coin mode, no Fe/Co and no crosshair, threshold tone is nulled out, now on the right is Quick Mask with no discrimination. You hear the tone produced by this item AND get a correct Fe/Co.....


I hope this helps, and doesn't confuse things more...

Robby - thanks for the demo...but, in your example the disc pattern you were using did exactly what you wanted it to, i.e., 'passed' on the nail. What I'm trying to figure out is those situations where the Etrac nulls due to disc iron BUT there is a 'good' target in close proximity to the 'nail'. Does Quick Mask or TTF setting somehow show or ID both targets indicating good and bad exist??

Probably not making sense, but Andy Sabisch's book and Terry Barnhart (Goes4ever) seem to imply that these tools help located targets masked by nearby trash/iron. Is it a matter of 'honing in' on the Co value regardless of Fe score or if it's less than 27??? In other words...'dig it' everytime when the Conductive values is in a range that you would dig if the Fe value ~12???

Monkeys Uncle said:

Robby - thanks for the demo...but, in your example the disc pattern you were using did exactly what you wanted it to, i.e., 'passed' on the nail. What I'm trying to figure out is those situations where the Etrac nulls due to disc iron BUT there is a 'good' target in close proximity to the 'nail'. Does Quick Mask or TTF setting somehow show or ID both targets indicating good and bad exist??

Probably not making sense, but Andy Sabisch's book and Terry Barnhart (Goes4ever) seem to imply that these tools help located targets masked by nearby trash/iron. Is it a matter of 'honing in' on the Co value regardless of Fe score or if it's less than 27??? In other words...'dig it' everytime when the Conductive values is in a range that you would dig if the Fe value ~12???

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, it was late and my explanation was not very clear. What happens is that (and I've come to believe what some with more experience have said - Discrimination is the DEVIL ) with too much discrimination a target that is "masked" by another can have it's own Fe/Co numbers "mutated" by the masking target to the point that it will also be nulled out. So say you have a quarter next to a large chunk of rusty iron - a scenario I actually did have - and you're running in Coins Mode/Pattern. The Iron chunk is going to null out and the quarter is going show up as (in my case) a short "pip" of a signal but the Fe/Co will be 30/44 and jumpy. I switched to Quick Mask because of the null, NOT because of the other target's signal.

And here's the important part, you still have to get target separation and swing from different directions, just switching to Quick Mask won't solve your problem of ID'ing the target.

Once I went to quick mask and slowed down and swung from all around the compass over the targets, I saw the big piece at 35/48 repeatedly and a smaller target that jumped FE numbers from 15 to 32 but the Co stayed pretty steady around 44. So I dug (I was beach hunting) the targets and sure enough it was a big rusty piece of slag from where they welded a steel beam on the pier I was hunting under and a clad quarter.

TTF on the other hand is a different MODE and makes the machine act differently. I only have about 30 hours using TTF and all I can say is that in TTF with a very minimal disc pattern (UK Roman) I have pulled some amazing finds in high trash areas. I also use my 5x9 NEL Sharpshooter coil in high trash areas. Just remember that DISCRIMINATION IS THE DEVIL...

Maybe G4E will chime in here and help out...

Robby - Thanks again!!! That makes sense and is the conclusion I was beginning to draw. I assume that if multiple targets exist in the 'null' area, it's a matter of segregating them by sweeping (slowly) from different directions in order to distinguish them...and further assume, the 'cursor' or 'target' icon will move/relocate its position on the Quick Disk screen???

You've been most helpful and I am sincerely grateful.

jdt

Monkeys Uncle said:

Robby - Thanks again!!! That makes sense and is the conclusion I was beginning to draw. I assume that if multiple targets exist in the 'null' area, it's a matter of segregating them by sweeping (slowly) from different directions in order to distinguish them...and further assume, the 'cursor' or 'target' icon will move/relocate its position on the Quick Disk screen???

You've been most helpful and I am sincerely grateful.

jdt

Click to expand...

You're welcome "J". Glad I could clear things up a bit. Understand, I may still not be explaining it right but this is what I have observed and gotten from reading Andy's book and post from those more experienced than me. Yes the cursor will move, but try to listen to the machine first, look at the numbers second and the cursor last.

I really hope someone else chimes in and backs me up or straightens me out...

GL & HH!!

robby4570 said:

I'm sorry, it was late and my explanation was not very clear. What happens is that (and I've come to believe what some with more experience have said - Discrimination is the DEVIL ) with too much discrimination a target that is "masked" by another can have it's own Fe/Co numbers "mutated" by the masking target to the point that it will also be nulled out. So say you have a quarter next to a large chunk of rusty iron - a scenario I actually did have - and you're running in Coins Mode/Pattern. The Iron chunk is going to null out and the quarter is going show up as (in my case) a short "pip" of a signal but the Fe/Co will be 30/44 and jumpy. I switched to Quick Mask because of the null, NOT because of the other target's signal.

And here's the important part, you still have to get target separation and swing from different directions, just switching to Quick Mask won't solve your problem of ID'ing the target.

Once I went to quick mask and slowed down and swung from all around the compass over the targets, I saw the big piece at 35/48 repeatedly and a smaller target that jumped FE numbers from 15 to 32 but the Co stayed pretty steady around 44. So I dug (I was beach hunting) the targets and sure enough it was a big rusty piece of slag from where they welded a steel beam on the pier I was hunting under and a clad quarter.

TTF on the other hand is a different MODE and makes the machine act differently. I only have about 30 hours using TTF and all I can say is that in TTF with a very minimal disc pattern (UK Roman) I have pulled some amazing finds in high trash areas. I also use my 5x9 NEL Sharpshooter coil in high trash areas. Just remember that DISCRIMINATION IS THE DEVIL...

Maybe G4E will chime in here and help out...

Click to expand...

That's an excellent write up, clear, simple and understandable. I don't even have an Etrac (CTX) but my brother does. I'm sure the my CTX occaisionaly is "mutated" as well. Your scenario makes the issue clear. Thanks!

flyguy784 said:

That's an excellent write up, clear, simple and understandable. I don't even have an Etrac (CTX) but my brother does. I'm sure the my CTX occaisionaly is "mutated" as well. Your scenario makes the issue clear. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Why, thank you! I believe in KISS, keep it simple stupid... and simple works best for me!

When in doubt dig. You never know. Target ID is nice but not always accurate. The more you use your machine the better you will get at figuring out what it's telling you.

I use to agree with the concept that "discrimination is the devil" but I've changed my tune as of late. Like everything, there is a place for all settings.

Me and a buddy have hit out local city park with really deep coins very hard. Me with every detector I could get my hands on, and him with his E-Trac. Finding keepers is more a matter of luck at this point. Well not having much time I tried something new. Normally I hunted with a very open pattern on my E-Trac and Auto +3. In Manual I just dug way too much really deep rusted iron and lost a lot of valuable time doing it. Deciding I needed to make my time count I loaded up the tightest restrictive pattern I had. Nothing but a small open area in the high conductive coin area and a very small slit in the nickle area. I also changed from Auto + 3 to Manual 29.

Right off the bat I got a very iffy broken tone but what I noticed was the FE numbers all stayed low (08 to 16) and the CO was up in the 39 to 44 area. I recovered a very deep wheat. Not more than 2' and another. Same thing in that it sounded like !!!! but the FE remains low and the CO up in the coin range. Bang, another very deep wheat. Next was broken as well with FE numbers in the below 18 range but the CO was a 45 now and then and sure enough a deep merc. I told John and he set his E-Trac the same and also started pulling deep wheat. In a very short time and had pulled 5 wheats and a merc all older than usual. Most in the 20's and john pulled a few nickles and I pulled a few as well

Lesson to be learned. There is a time and place for all settings even very high discrimination.

My first hunt of about 20 minutes.



Second hunt of about 30 minutes.



The pattern I used.

I've learned that in TTF, discrimination IS the devil... not so much in conductive though.

Yes I would agree in TTF.

Personally I have not had any luck with TTF. I loaded my seetting right off Goes4Ever's site and still never found anything but deep rusted iron.

That pattern looks to be "Bills trashy park pattern" which is very effective in both conductive and TTF. I like that as well !!!