Big Boys Hobbies

PI Machines

Strycker

Strycker

Full Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
119
Location
Winchester, VA
I've been thinking hard about getting a PI machine. I know that they are rather expensive investments. I live in VA and sometimes question the capabilities of my AT Pro. Don't get me wrong, it's a great machine and has been for the last 1.5 years. But with soil conditions being what they are, I wonder if a PI detector would not be more suitable. Using the 15" NEL Attack on the AT Pro I found the VT copper I posted this past week. What I'm skeptical of now though is that it might have been 9" deep, but running full sensitivity and ground balanced to the soil conditions, I feel this signal should have been a harder hit than a faint high tone. Seems that the depth for a coin in the ground 200 years should have had a nice halo around it and that the detector should have been able to "see" it much easier. Now that said, the guys with the 9x12 coils couldn't hear it at all. I was chasing a tone next to it with the NEL (turned out to be a nail) but their detectors just couldn't hit it at all. With such a large coil and only getting that depth out of it, it makes me wonder.

What are your thoughts on the PI vs the AT Pro? I know Garrett has the ATX, but I think if you're going that high, you might as well look at the GPX, correct? What's everyone else think? Open to opinions and suggestions. And I know I'm still learning the machine every time I'm out, but this one baffles me.
 
Generally, when a PI machine finds a target, it gives the same volume and tone whether the target is a gold ring or a 100 lb torpedo. The PI technology allows you to simply turn on the machine and hunt any salt-water area without having to ground balance and is usually 99% free of false signals.

The basic Whites, Tesoro and Garrett machines (Sea Hunter, Infinium, etc) with the 10x14 coil are significantly better than the AT-P when it comes to depth too. A new Sea Hunter or Tesoro are only about $600. The higher price machines like the Infinium, atx, etc... will give you some better target id but it doesn't help much. You are still stuck digging almost every target to discover whether it is gold, silver, or a hair pin.

In NE Florida, we have an exceptionally high mineral concentration that drives the ATP nuts, even with the sensitiivty turned down and re-balancing every few steps. However, flick on any PI machine and there isn't a problem. Anyhow, used Sea Hunters often sell for around $400-450 while (IMO) Whites and Tesoro machines might be a few bucks extra.
 
Look for a PI with a pulse delay of around 15uS the Whites Dual Field and Seahunter are in that range... the Sandshark is higher at 22.6 uS micro-seconds which means its not as sensitive to smaller gold... if you have the funds the new ATX is a option I would look at.. You can take it in the water you wouldn't want to take the GPX in the water unless you can lose that amount of money ;)
 
I'm mainly a land hunter at this point. Beaches are 3-4 hours from my vicinity, but I feel like some things are just deeper due to the age of the places we hunt. I don't know the first thing about PI machines in general, much like I didn't know when I started with the ACE 350. Even that machine with stock coil pulled a coin at about 8" with an intermittent ping.

I've look at the Infinium, but will also look at the other options as well. The GPX is 3x the price of the ATX so I really don't think that the 5000 is an option for me. Though upgrading over and over again is also a point to look into. That is why the ATX is an attractive option, plus it seems suited more to the relic / treasure hunting side which is what I'm more into anyway. Would it do well in iron or would that be another case of it would lock onto every target and you'd have to dig everything? Sure wish I could try one out without shelling out the $2k first.
 
unless your ground is very mineralized I agree that copper should of screamed at 9 inches . I can find them at 11 or 12 inches deep here with a 10x12 sef coil and they still hit pretty hard and sound good. if your considering a pulse for mostly land see if you can try out a whites tdi pro or sl , the sl is a bit cheaper but runs super stable and is a deep machine and does have some basic discrimination features unlike most pulse machines. I've gotten coppers at 15 inches with it and nickles in the wet sands at the beach at over 20'' .
 
I was out hunting with my dealer Monday and he was testing a ATX and he said it sucked compared to his GPX. iron disc. was horrible ... we did better with my Etrac, my buddies Deus, and my dealers Sons CTX3030
 
Surfchunker said:
I was out hunting with my dealer Monday and he was testing a ATX and he said it sucked compared to his GPX. iron disc. was horrible ... we did better with my Etrac, my buddies Deus, and my dealers Sons CTX3030
Click to expand...

Yeah, "most" PI's are unable to effectively discriminate....unless you are in a lab under controlled conditions. Some models, like the Infinium and one of the Whites, will give a low to high response which can help identify targets.

If this is your backup detector, you probably are looking for something cost effective but with the added punch to find targets your other detector is missing. So any of the PI's will do that....or you can spend a few grand on the GPX which is a detector that many claim can discriminate.

Another selling point about the PI machines <$800 is they are usually made for diving, i.e., waterproof and you won't get rained out of a hunt! The Garrett models are extremely rugged and they are not hard-wired. So you can interchange headphones and coils as well. Also the control box can be hip or shaft mounted to displace the weight.

I land-hunted with a Garrett PI for (4) years. If you search some of my old posts you will find stories of targets that are knee and hip deep (10x14 coil). On the flip side of that amazing depth is the realization that digging for deep targets in hard soil can take a lot of work, time, and frustration when you find junk. However, since you already have a good machine, the PI would compliment your hunting experience and enable you to run over ground after you did a quick discriminated hunt with the other machine.
 
I have been looking into getting a PI machine as well, but for the beach, where the ATP doesn't work as well as I'd like. I have watched many videos and in all have found that the depth on most isn't as good as I had hoped. I have also considered a Multi-frequency vlf, but they cost even more. On one test the ATX did best, detecting a nickel at 16 inches. The others, including the Tesoro Sand Shark, hit the Nickel at around 8 to 10 inches. Not much deeper than the coin you found. The ATX got a loud signal, but also had the largest coil.

As far as a halo. I don't believe copper, or nickel or silver produce a halo. Certainly not like Iron. They don't degrade like iron does, the degradation is what produces the halo. Iron leaching into the soil from the iron object decaying.
 
Grumpysrb said:
...I have watched many videos and in all have found that the depth on most isn't as good as I had hoped. I have also considered a Multi-frequency vlf, but they cost even more. On one test the ATX did best, detecting a nickel at 16 inches. The others, including the Tesoro Sand Shark, hit the Nickel at around 8 to 10 inches. ....
Click to expand...

The depth of PI machines dramatically increases with larger coils. On the Garrett Sea Hunters & Infiniums, changing the stock 8" for the stock 10x14 can result in a significant increase of target depth. Here are a few depths from my log when I had the SH2 with the 10x14 coil:

SAND (NE Florida)
22" - 1958 Dime
22" - 19?? Penny
26" - 1992 Quarter
34" - 26oz iron glob
45" - Iron stake (yup, 3'-9" deep)​


CLAY (SE Michigan)
20" - roofing nail
22" - Quarter
24" - Die cast Cap Gun
28" - Belt buckle​


TOP SOIL (SE Michigan)
19" - Nickle
20" - Quarter
30" - 3oz hammer
​
 
As far the the ATX "sucking" it also is about 1/3 the price of the GPX5000, so everything has to be relative to the pricing in some way. I'm sure it's at least 33% of the GPX. I can't bring myself to spend $5k on a detector. Now used and a really good deal, maybe around $3k for it.

As far as the White's TDI SL vs the TDI Pro, I've tried to find a comparison of the two, but no luck. Is there a distinct difference in the two and would one be better than the other for my purpose? I need to research more, but just thought I'd throw it out there. Finding one used would be great, but they don't seem to be sold often, making me think they're great machines. The Infinium has caught my attention as well. Decisions, decisions.. hmm...
 
Surfchunker said:
my point was if a dealer says they suck they must really suck because it is their job to sell you one.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on that one, but he's also used to a GPX. It's like owning a Ferrari and saying a Corvette sucks. If he still has the ATX and wants to sell it cheap, let me know. I'll take it off his hands. See you're from Cumberland. I've hunted some of the Fort Ashby area with a buddy.
 
Surfchunker said:
my point was if a dealer says they suck they must really suck because it is their job to sell you one.
Click to expand...

"I was out hunting with my dealer Monday and he was testing a ATX and he said it sucked"

He used it one time, said it sucked and that is now fact because it's his job to sell you one?

Alrighty then... He's an expert after testing the machine...:lol:
 
he's used tons of machines and detected for over 20 years, so it's not like he was taking a wild guess. he sells all the major brands except for whites and bounty hunter and has used them all. I like that he has tested them all and can and does give a honest report even if it means loosing a sale. but think what you want and go for it ... just passing along what I was told from someone I trust.
 
The TDI or the TDI Pro would be my recommendation. The SL is not as deep, especially in "non ground balanced mode." The stock coil would be plenty deep, an aftermarket or custom wound coil turns it into a real monster.

I hunt mineralized beaches and have a few different pulse machines, the TDI I recently picked up. So far I am impressed, it is a learning curve for a beginner, but it so far has me wanting to waterproof it.

It does have "discrimination" but you will lose some depth, and depending on the high or low tone.

I have a tuned DF that I feel I am very proficient at, and run it hot. The TDI is deeper, but not waterproof. Most aftermarket coils for it are only good to a few feet in water.

Any pulse be prepared to dig, and dig some more...

~SSC :p

I have used an ATX for 20 hours, the TDI about the same so far, my opinion is the TDI I prefer. Find a regular TDI with the 3 battery signal lights, research coils, get one for the areas you hunt. Larger is not always better...
 
I have seen a video on the TDI Pro and it looks to be AWESOME deep and accurate! Its a SWEET! pulse detector but expensive!
 
SingingSandcrab said:
The TDI or the TDI Pro would be my recommendation. The SL is not as deep, especially in "non ground balanced mode." The stock coil would be plenty deep, an aftermarket or custom wound coil turns it into a real monster.

I hunt mineralized beaches and have a few different pulse machines, the TDI I recently picked up. So far I am impressed, it is a learning curve for a beginner, but it so far has me wanting to waterproof it.

It does have "discrimination" but you will lose some depth, and depending on the high or low tone.

I have a tuned DF that I feel I am very proficient at, and run it hot. The TDI is deeper, but not waterproof. Most aftermarket coils for it are only good to a few feet in water.

Any pulse be prepared to dig, and dig some more...

~SSC :p

I have used an ATX for 20 hours, the TDI about the same so far, my opinion is the TDI I prefer. Find a regular TDI with the 3 battery signal lights, research coils, get one for the areas you hunt. Larger is not always better...
Click to expand...

Actually found a TDI that I'm in the works of buying I think. Saw some youtube videos and I like the way it works. Going to give it a try and see what I can do. If it's not for me maybe it'll be up for sale.
 
Strycker said:
Actually found a TDI that I'm in the works of buying I think. Saw some youtube videos and I like the way it works. Going to give it a try and see what I can do. If it's not for me maybe it'll be up for sale.
Click to expand...

The Pro as I understand it was made for Australia, has a fine adjustment and volume control. One TDI selling on here and the person selling it never got back to me. Still looking for one because I do not like borrowing my friends.

On Whites website you can get the instruction manual. It is a good way of really knowing a machine before purchase. The TDI is overlooked, but it is an Eric Foster collaborated design.

One thing to remember is the battery, it does not run the standard 8 pack AA. That says something right there...

Any questions holler, be prepared to dig ;)

~SSC :p
 
SingingSandcrab said:
One thing to remember is the battery, it does not run the standard 8 pack AA. That says something right there...

Any questions holler, be prepared to dig ;)

~SSC :p
Click to expand...

That is the one drawback as I looked up the price of replacements. At $149-$199 each, that's a bit steep. But the one I've found comes with 2 batteries. So I should be okay for a while (I hope anyway.) We shall see. I can always re-sell it should it not be the machine for me. I know who might want it too :D It's the normal TDI. I'll grab the manual off of the White's website and start reading. Hopefully be ready to run when it arrives.
 
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