NEL Tornado Coil

Good luck with the new coil!

: Detectingman said:

Ended up getting a NEL tornadp coil which should be here tomorrow. Currently using their 5" sharp which is really good at getting in these dang trashy areas around here.

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I always find search coil selection to be 'interesting' and also raise some questions. I've been relying on smaller-size search coils since late '71 and early '72. Some as small as 4½" or as large as 7" at various times ever since then, but pretty much settled on my primary-use coils ranging from ±5" to ±6" of both types. For regular-use in average hunting environments I opt for what I consider to be a mid-size coils, and those are either a round-shaped 7" Concentric to a 5X9½ elliptical DD.

So I completely understand you using a 5" DD to work in trashier areas. But the question I have is, out-of-curiosity, why are you using an aftermarket search coil rather than a 5" DD made by the detector manufacturer?

Naturally that makes me wonder why you're going with an aftermarket NEL Tornado 12X13 inch DD instead of a detector manufacturer's bigger coil?

Your Signatures suggests you only have the Teknetics Delta 4000 detector, so I wonder what factory-offered search coils you have used?

: Detectingman said:

Got a feeling that I am going to be finding some deeper goodies at some of the local haunts which just haven't been able to get at.

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True, a larger-size search coil might provide some hits on slightly deeper targets, that's expected. However, are your "local haunts" relatively target-free where what's there is well spaced so keepers won't be masked by nearby unwanted trash? Do you have very much iron debris to deal with?

Bigger coils work better in larger areas that are more wide-open and with trash that is well spaced so as not to cause a masking issue with a larger-size coil's EMF.

: Detectingman said:

Anyone like this coil? From research it seemed like a good option for searching for some silvers and possible CW relics.

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I borrowed a unit a fellow hobbyist used that had that bigger coil and, from my evaluations, Yes, it worked and could hit on some slightly-deeper targets and could get a little improved depth in low-to-moderate trashy places.

That said, it also felt a little nose heavy, and had trouble handling conditions when an accepted target was too close to a rejected or Discriminated target, but that was more due to the circuitry design that didn't work well when it came to isolating coin-size targets that were closely positioned to a Discriminated target. Better known as 'unmasking.'

Other brands/models could handle those conditions better, so it makes a difference on the detector design more than the search coil size. I wish you good luck with the bigger coil, but keep that 5" handy on a spare lower rod for quick changes afield as I think it could easily see more use.

Monte

Beachhunter said:

Good luck with the new coil!

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Thanks! Can't wait to see what happens!

Monte said:

I always find search coil selection to be 'interesting' and also raise some questions. I've been relying on smaller-size search coils since late '71 and early '72. Some as small as 4½" or as large as 7" at various times ever since then, but pretty much settled on my primary-use coils ranging from ±5" to ±6" of both types. For regular-use in average hunting environments I opt for what I consider to be a mid-size coils, and those are either a round-shaped 7" Concentric to a 5X9½ elliptical DD.

So I completely understand you using a 5" DD to work in trashier areas. But the question I have is, out-of-curiosity, why are you using an aftermarket search coil rather than a 5" DD made by the detector manufacturer?

Naturally that makes me wonder why you're going with an aftermarket NEL Tornado 12X13 inch DD instead of a detector manufacturer's bigger coil?

Your Signatures suggests you only have the Teknetics Delta 4000 detector, so I wonder what factory-offered search coils you have used?


True, a larger-size search coil might provide some hits on slightly deeper targets, that's expected. However, are your "local haunts" relatively target-free where what's there is well spaced so keepers won't be masked by nearby unwanted trash? Do you have very much iron debris to deal with?

Bigger coils work better in larger areas that are more wide-open and with trash that is well spaced so as not to cause a masking issue with a larger-size coil's EMF.


I borrowed a unit a fellow hobbyist used that had that bigger coil and, from my evaluations, Yes, it worked and could hit on some slightly-deeper targets and could get a little improved depth in low-to-moderate trashy places.

That said, it also felt a little nose heavy, and had trouble handling conditions when an accepted target was too close to a rejected or Discriminated target, but that was more due to the circuitry design that didn't work well when it came to isolating coin-size targets that were closely positioned to a Discriminated target. Better known as 'unmasking.'

Other brands/models could handle those conditions better, so it makes a difference on the detector design more than the search coil size. I wish you good luck with the bigger coil, but keep that 5" handy on a spare lower rod for quick changes afield as I think it could easily see more use.

Monte

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Hello Monte! Wow those are some interesting observations and I appreciate you lending your experience to this topic! I can see why you like the mid sized coils, obviously they will be used in multipurpose situations. Good question on why didn't I get the Teknetics DD 11 inch coil. Personally the first NEL coil I got sold me on their quality. It was leaps and bounds above the 8 inch concentric which came with the Delta 4000. In truth I have never used the Teknetics DD coil and probably should have looked into the option. The NEL was $50 cheaper and the small 5" made me a believer in their productions, if that is a good answer? Once the NEL was put on there the Delta 4000 became alot more accurate and of course the small size allowed to pull some good items and clad in highly trash infested areas.

In regards to the local parks there isn't much iron debris in them. The ground around here is very foamy in parts so it seems that coins and whatnot sink fairly quickly. There is a Civil War camp up the street and that is another reason why I went with the bigger coil. Even with the 8 inch concentric it didn't seem to pick up anything in areas ive already hit hard. The thing of interest is what will the bigger coil find that the others missed.

That's reassuring that you liked the coil. I had to sell a couple finds to get it, but it can't hurt having it in the arsenal. There are also some corn fields in the areas I can now hunt, so that is always an added bonus. Very interesting observations and thank you! HH

Detectingman: said:

I can see why you like the mid sized coils, obviously they will be used in multipurpose situations.

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I use the mid-sized coils for open areas with limited trash. Generally, they will provide ample depth-of-detection and a little extra coverage compared with the smaller-size coils, and in many cases provide comparable performance to what was once a 'standard' coil of 8" to 10". Usually, I have very little use for search coils larger than a 9" diameter because I don't search that many open areas with limited targets.

I do have a round 9" DD coil on my ORX that I use for working private yards and a few sparse-target Coin & Jewelry Hunting areas, but most of the time I am Relic Hunting older, out-of-the-way locations with dense brush and weeds to deal with along with a lot of building rubble and/or iron debris. Smaller coils are the best way to go, and better yet when worked on a detector that, by design, handles heavy ferrous contaminated sites well. Many good urban Coin Hunting models do not make worthy units to take into a very iron-polluted site for Relic Hunting type work.

Detectingman: said:

Good question on why didn't I get the Teknetics DD 11 inch coil. Personally the first NEL coil I got sold me on their quality. It was leaps and bounds above the 8 inch concentric which came with the Delta 4000. In truth I have never used the Teknetics DD coil and probably should have looked into the option. The NEL was $50 cheaper and the small 5" made me a believer in their productions, if that is a good answer?

Click to expand...

I have had and used NEL coils and, except for the malfunctioning, brand new NEL Snake coil that is on my living room table, they have appeared to be a solid build and have worked well.

I have never been a fan of the 11" BiAxial coil from Teknetics / Fisher. It's ugly looking, to me, and had a cheapish feel to it. I never had very good performance from that size coil on any Tek. or Fisher product, nor have they worked well against other models I compared them with using a somewhat similar-size search coil. More EMI and a less-consistent VDI response from them compared to using other Tek./Fisher coils, too.

So, YES, that was a good answer in that you liked their build quality and they worked well for you.

Detectingman: said:

Once the NEL was put on there the Delta 4000 became alot more accurate and of course the small size allowed to pull some good items and clad in highly trash infested areas.

Click to expand...

You're referring to the NEL 5" DD, and I had the same satisfying results with a Fisher/Teknetics 5" DD on the Omega 8000's I used to use from 2010 to 2015. I kept one Omega equipped with the 5" DD and the other used either the round 8" or 5X10 DD.

Today I keep a round 7" Concentric mounted on a Fisher F-44, but in my Accessory Coil Tote I have a 4" Concentric and 5" DD mounted on their own lower rods for that model. I used to be a Teknetics Dealer and used the Omega 8000 for urban Coin Hunting and had a Delta and Gamma w/8" coils mounted for loaner units for friends and family. They work OK for common Coin & Jewelry Hunting applications, but are not very useful at all for serious Relic Hunting sites with a lot of nails or other dense ferrous debris, regardless of the coil attached. I did a lot of hunting in urban sites with the 5" DD, too.

Detectingman: said:

In regards to the local parks there isn't much iron debris in them. The ground around here is very foamy in parts so it seems that coins and whatnot sink fairly quickly. There is a Civil War camp up the street and that is another reason why I went with the bigger coil. Even with the 8 inch concentric it didn't seem to pick up anything in areas ive already hit hard. The thing of interest is what will the bigger coil find that the others missed.

Click to expand...

If you and others have hit the CW camp site pretty hard, thnn it should be thinned out a lot.

Have you hunted it in All Metal mode or with a device using Zero Disc.? If so, that would let you know how much iron trash is present and that would call for removing the iron junk and/or using a smaller-size coil to try and unmask any keepers hiding close to the ferrous trash.

Regardless of coil size, one thing you have going against you, if there is very much iron or other junk present, is trying to find it with the Delta. It is a good urban Coin machine, but the circuitry isn't that efficient at recovering from rejected targets (iron, etc.) in a very trashy environment.

The bigger coil, however, will be less responsive to smaller-size targets (coins, buttons, etc.) than will a smaller or mid-sized coil, and it will also be less effective at trying to unmask any good targets left there that are too close to offending junk. Additionally, you're using a two-filter type detector and with the larger coil it can't be worked at too fast a sweep speed.

And if there is still a lot of iron and other trash left there because searchers used too much Discrimination, that will impair the performance of the larger-size coil.

Detectingman: said:

That's reassuring that you liked the coil. I had to sell a couple finds to get it, but it can't hurt having it in the arsenal. There are also some corn fields in the areas I can now hunt, so that is always an added bonus. Very interesting observations and thank you!

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Now, working plowed fields, especially with corn stubble, then the larger coil can often be of some help because it will need to be worked a little higher off the ground. You should never scrub a coil on the ground, but the stubble will call for a raised coil sweep height greater than the 1" to 2" height a coil should be worked at.

Best of luck when you get out and I'll be watching to find out how things go for you.

Monte

Monte said:

I use the mid-sized coils for open areas with limited trash. Generally, they will provide ample depth-of-detection and a little extra coverage compared with the smaller-size coils, and in many cases provide comparable performance to what was once a 'standard' coil of 8" to 10". Usually, I have very little use for search coils larger than a 9" diameter because I don't search that many open areas with limited targets.

I do have a round 9" DD coil on my ORX that I use for working private yards and a few sparse-target Coin & Jewelry Hunting areas, but most of the time I am Relic Hunting older, out-of-the-way locations with dense brush and weeds to deal with along with a lot of building rubble and/or iron debris. Smaller coils are the best way to go, and better yet when worked on a detector that, by design, handles heavy ferrous contaminated sites well. Many good urban Coin Hunting models do not make worthy units to take into a very iron-polluted site for Relic Hunting type work.


I have had and used NEL coils and, except for the malfunctioning, brand new NEL Snake coil that is on my living room table, they have appeared to be a solid build and have worked well.

I have never been a fan of the 11" BiAxial coil from Teknetics / Fisher. It's ugly looking, to me, and had a cheapish feel to it. I never had very good performance from that size coil on any Tek. or Fisher product, nor have they worked well against other models I compared them with using a somewhat similar-size search coil. More EMI and a less-consistent VDI response from them compared to using other Tek./Fisher coils, too.

So, YES, that was a good answer in that you liked their build quality and they worked well for you.


You're referring to the NEL 5" DD, and I had the same satisfying results with a Fisher/Teknetics 5" DD on the Omega 8000's I used to use from 2010 to 2015. I kept one Omega equipped with the 5" DD and the other used either the round 8" or 5X10 DD.

Today I keep a round 7" Concentric mounted on a Fisher F-44, but in my Accessory Coil Tote I have a 4" Concentric and 5" DD mounted on their own lower rods for that model. I used to be a Teknetics Dealer and used the Omega 8000 for urban Coin Hunting and had a Delta and Gamma w/8" coils mounted for loaner units for friends and family. They work OK for common Coin & Jewelry Hunting applications, but are not very useful at all for serious Relic Hunting sites with a lot of nails or other dense ferrous debris, regardless of the coil attached. I did a lot of hunting in urban sites with the 5" DD, too.


If you and others have hit the CW camp site pretty hard, thnn it should be thinned out a lot.

Have you hunted it in All Metal mode or with a device using Zero Disc.? If so, that would let you know how much iron trash is present and that would call for removing the iron junk and/or using a smaller-size coil to try and unmask any keepers hiding close to the ferrous trash.

Regardless of coil size, one thing you have going against you, if there is very much iron or other junk present, is trying to find it with the Delta. It is a good urban Coin machine, but the circuitry isn't that efficient at recovering from rejected targets (iron, etc.) in a very trashy environment.

The bigger coil, however, will be less responsive to smaller-size targets (coins, buttons, etc.) than will a smaller or mid-sized coil, and it will also be less effective at trying to unmask any good targets left there that are too close to offending junk. Additionally, you're using a two-filter type detector and with the larger coil it can't be worked at too fast a sweep speed.

And if there is still a lot of iron and other trash left there because searchers used too much Discrimination, that will impair the performance of the larger-size coil.


Now, working plowed fields, especially with corn stubble, then the larger coil can often be of some help because it will need to be worked a little higher off the ground. You should never scrub a coil on the ground, but the stubble will call for a raised coil sweep height greater than the 1" to 2" height a coil should be worked at.

Best of luck when you get out and I'll be watching to find out how things go for you.

Monte

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Got out there for about an hour today. There is snow on the ground but didn't let that stop me. Wow, there is a learning curve to this larger coil no doubt. The first thing I noticed is that it does indeed find some deeper targets. Dug a penny at around 6 inches so that is good. Alot better than with the 5" DD as far as depth goes. However, scanning the plug/hole is a lot harder. It's more difficult to maneuver the coil around the dirt due to the large size. Also, the coil is very sensitive to EMI waves and powerlines. I definitely was finding targets that I had previously missed just because they were deeper, that was the main test and it passed well. This coil will be really good in that local CW site. BTW, I don't think it has been hunted too much but we will see.

You are right, that 11 inch Teknetics is one ugly sucker lol. The NEL I ran in all metal mode maximum sensitivity. Wish it were possible for me to hunt by sound but I pay close attention to my VDI for non-ferrous patterns or numbers. Also, a couple targets today there were some repeatable grunt signals so might need to start digging these. My thoughts are perhaps those grunts are targets which are past the maximum depth of the Delta yet the coil is still picking them up. That is an interesting thought though, does the machine limit the aftermarket coil, or vice versa? All in all not a bad pickup on this coil and if any deep targets emerge in these already hunted areas, then definitely worth it!