Identifying bullets and cartridge cases

Voriax

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As many of us find bullets, cartridge cases and even full cartridges from time to time I thought to write down some things that will hopefully help you to get an identification.

First some questions and answers:

Q: I found a musket ball. How old it is?
A: Impossible to tell. Lead musketballs have been around hundreds of years. You really can't tell whether it's 100 or 200 years old..or 50.

Q: I found a 3-ringer bullet. Is it civil war?
A: Maybe. Did you dig it from known battle- or campsite? Minie ball came in use before US civil war and continued to be in use after US civil war. So you can say you dug an US civil war era bullet. As with musket ball, it is impossible to give any definite year.

Q: I found a bullet! Which gun fired it?
A: Give us some dimensions and don't get your hopes high. Say you found a .30 cal rifle bullet. There are hundreds of different cartridges that are .30 cal and lots and lots of different guns that fire some kind of .30 cal round.

Q: I found an empty cartridge case/live cartridge. What calibre it is? Who made it? And when?
A: Now we are talking. Check the following examples:

308a.jpg

Here's a pic that shows some important dimensions. This is a .308 cartridge btw. Case length is a must. And if your case is not deformed too badly, we need diameter at cartridge mouth, diameter at base of the case and if the case is rimmed, like .22lr, then we want rim diameter. If it's a complete cartridge give us the bullet diameter too..the diagram above shows you where to take the measure.

Or...you could give us this:

Fc308Win_G.jpg

The Headstamp! 308 win made by Federal Cartridge co. Note that this headstamp is almost certainly from cartridge made for civilian use. How can you tell? Well, military cartridges tend to have the year of manufacture stamped in them . This is generally not the case with cartridges originally sold for civilians.
Some makers added all sorts of interesting info into the headstamp..in some cases it's possible to identify the factory or maker of the metal used in the casing. Also with civilian cartridges the style of the headstamp can often give an age bracket of when the cartridge was made.

Please give us some pictures! But keep in mind that...

308b.jpg

Pics like this aren't really useful. It's still a .308 but there's really no way to tell it.

308c.jpg

Now this is a bit better. but it really just gives us some kind of ballpark guesstimates.

308d.jpg

Ok..now we have a tape measure. Also note that the pic was cropped a bit to give us more of the object and less of the background. From this some fairly educated guesses can be made. However, there are/were couple thousand different cartridge types and sometimes the differences are very very small...

308e.jpg

So pics like this are very nice. Try to get a bit better measurement than I did as the cartridge base and calipers aren't properly aligned :)


If you can't take/post pics make a drawing of the headstamp and post it..or describe it as best as you can. You can also just write down those measurements, just make a clear list of what measurement was taken at what point of the case.

Total length of a complete cartridge is not that important. Nice to have but full rounds tend to have a maximum length and depending of bullet or type or weapon the round was meant to the total length can be less.

With lead balls diameter is the important thing, weight less so. With cylindrical lead bullets diameter is number one, length and weight less so. Same with jacketed bullets. Say for a .308 there is really no fixed bullet weight or length. Ok, some NATO standard round has those, but new standards are applied now and then and early 'ball' ammo is likely different than modern one.

So to put it short: Give us measurements and headstamps! With those resident gurus can often give you pretty good identifications.

Voriax

PS: If you have any corrections, comments or suggestions about this post, please pm me :)
 
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Here is a cool info graphic for civil war bullets.
abuzumy3.jpg



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Also why would someone chew on these bullets??? "Chewed by human teeth" lol


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When Civil War field medics were operating, sometimes they made the individual 'Bite the Bullet' because of the pain.


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Also why would someone chew on these bullets??? "Chewed by human teeth" lol


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It's not uncommon to find bullets at Civil War sites that have been chewed by animals (squirrels, hogs, groundhogs, etc). We have found about a dozen this year at two CW sites we have worked. Most CW historians discount the "pain bullet" theory. In my experience, the teeth marks on our finds are obviously NOT human, but animal... the teeth marks are too small.
 
One thing I'd like to add is military cartridges have crimped primers, and civilian/commercial ammo does not. It's a round crimp on the very edge of primer pocket.

(removed broken link)

In this example, the crimped primer round on the left is Lake City 5.56x45mm from 2011 (probably M855A1), and the little circle/cross on the top specifies this cartridge has been loaded to NATO specs. The one on the right is Remington-made .223 Rem. (R-P is "Remington-Peters.")
 
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It takes about 100+ years (at least) to get that thick white oxidation layer you see on lead bullets. That always help me somewhat date the time period a bullet may have been fired. A recently fired musketball will not have that coating.
 
It takes about 100+ years (at least) to get that thick white oxidation layer you see on lead bullets. That always help me somewhat date the time period a bullet may have been fired. A recently fired musketball will not have that coating.

I would love someone to provide actual evidence to back up that claim. Oxidation of lead and other metals depends on soil moisture and chemistry. In the case of bullets, it is not a reliable indicator of age. Cast lead bullets can become heavily oxidized in a decade or two, or show minimal oxidation after 100+ years.
 
need help to id a cartridge found in Superstition Mts.

need help to id a cartridge found in Superstition Mts. Arizona.
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TIA
 
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Most likely a Frankford Arsenal 308 or 30-06. At least during wartime they omitted decades digit from date so this might be from 1945.
Mod might want to move this to own thread, thx
 
Dug this live .444 Marlin round on a small lawn permission New Year’s Day. Glad I didn’t hit the primer while digging!
 

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Is this a pellet? Found in a yard of a house 100 years old.
a209599fc06714fc4969b6e6336fb071.jpg


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Is this a pellet? Found in a yard of a house 100 years old.
a209599fc06714fc4969b6e6336fb071.jpg


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? What no response from anyone in 5 weeks? No that is not a pellet. Most likely a .22 bullet. As this thread has been all about, should have shown dimensions using a caliper and weight in grains. If indeed a modern .22 than dimensions would be something like .221-.222 and weight around 40 grains (not grams). That apply for.22 long rifle rimfire. Twenty two center fire would be different configurations.

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P.s. I see you're a relatively newcomer, welcome to the forum. Your question should have went totthe help I.d. my finds section and titled something like "Need help with bullet I.d.
 
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Found Bullets measurements need ID? Age?

Hello all found these 4 full and 1 fired shell all in about a 1 foot radius. Cant read any of the markings as they are all rusted. 2 of the shells came out of the ground stuck together and i thought it was a mouth harp until it broke apart. The round piece was right next to them as well and didn’t know if it had anything to do with them. One last question should i be worried about the powder in any of them? There is no way for it to discharge now right? Thanks everyone for taking a look.
 

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Those are steel cartridge cases, versus brass, and that's why the huge buildup of corrosion on the case heads. They're military cartridges of some sort and no they won't go off on you. Without a guns chamber and barrel they couldn't build up enough pressure to send the bullet but a few feet if they did.

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The other object is a cylinder out of a revolver, but will say it looks somehow a bit strange. The size of the holes for the chambers appear to be for a .22 revolver. Not related to the rifle cartridges you found except in the way that they're both firearms related.
 
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