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  #1  
Old 12-01-2019, 10:33 PM
IDXMonster IDXMonster is offline
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Default Methodology for detecting in cinders

I have a fairground that has a couple of sections that have a layer of cinders about 3-5Ē deep, with a 2Ē layer of black dirt and grass on top. So from the surface of the grass, the bottom of the cinders is about 7Ē deep. These cinders seem to be mixed in with black dirt as well, so itís not a super condensed layer, but crunchy to dig with the shovel and most importantly...they wreak HAVOC on the ability of the machine to achieve any kind of depth or stable ID. Iím running the Equinox 800, but in general...what have you found that improves the detect ability of a coin in this environment?
Thanks in advance for your experienced opinions....

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  #2  
Old 12-02-2019, 11:42 PM
IDXMonster IDXMonster is offline
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It is interesting that with 104 views, I have no responses. This means to me that many people would like to know more about this subject, and a Google search provides relatively little about this. Itís surprising in a way, but what I have found is...nobody really has a surefire method. One fellow said his Explorer SE in Coin mode seemed to work somewhat, but he didnít go into great detail.
Many of the old race tracks in fairgrounds were cinder tracks, and these cinders were used ALOT it seems, as I have run across anywhere from small pockets to very large sections of them.
One suggestion was to ground balance to them, so Iíll be relaying any useful information as I tackle this thing...

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  #3  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:33 AM
Stiffwrists Stiffwrists is offline
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I will be the first to admit... I read your post, but wasn't sure what cinders are? Is it a layer of burnt coal?

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  #4  
Old 12-03-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Stiffwrists View post
I will be the first to admit... I read your post, but wasn't sure what cinders are? Is it a layer of burnt coal?
Indeed, thatís it! And what a bizarre effect it has on my machines. Many walkways and smaller roads were coated with it for stability and traction, and the layer can be substantial!

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  #5  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:10 AM
Tpmetal Tpmetal is offline
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I have this at my fair grounds sites as well. REALLY difficult to detect but I guarantee that they are holding coins as there was a booth of some sort there making something. If anyone has a solution besides a pi machine, I would be all ears. I Don't have an answer for ya... if I did I would have another 10 or so seated in my pocket myself...
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:04 PM
IDXMonster IDXMonster is offline
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Originally Posted by Tpmetal View post
I have this at my fair grounds sites as well. REALLY difficult to detect but I guarantee that they are holding coins as there was a booth of some sort there making something. If anyone has a solution besides a pi machine, I would be all ears. I Don't have an answer for ya... if I did I would have another 10 or so seated in my pocket myself...
Exactly...unlock the secret and find what nobody else could. Iíll do my best!

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  #7  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:09 PM
Tpmetal Tpmetal is offline
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Originally Posted by IDXMonster View post
Exactly...unlock the secret and find what nobody else could. Iíll do my best!
I can let you know what I have tried. I have tried ground balancing in the cinders...seems to just make the machine lose all depth and signals. I have tried just digging any noise the machine made but most of the time ended up chasing false signals. Tried different recovery speeds, hunted it in all metal as well. Next I think i'll start trying things like the gold modes and single frequencies on the nox and see where that gets me.
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2019, 05:14 PM
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The principal components of bituminous coal fly ash are silica, alumina, iron oxide, and calcium, with varying amounts of carbon, as measured by the loss on ignition. Depending upon the source and composition of the coal being burned, the components of fly ash vary considerably, but all fly ash includes substantial amounts of silicon dioxide (SiO2) (both amorphous and crystalline), aluminium oxide (Al2O3) and calcium oxide (CaO), the main mineral compounds in coal-bearing rock.

It does seem like it would be hard to penetrate.
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2019, 06:38 PM
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You should get about a 5 gallon bucket from your site, Take it home add to a mini test garden and play with it to see what gives you the best results..

Which mode do you feel so far works the best.. Beach

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  #10  
Old 12-03-2019, 08:10 PM
IDXMonster IDXMonster is offline
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Originally Posted by Tpmetal View post
I can let you know what I have tried. I have tried ground balancing in the cinders...seems to just make the machine lose all depth and signals. I have tried just digging any noise the machine made but most of the time ended up chasing false signals. Tried different recovery speeds, hunted it in all metal as well. Next I think i'll start trying things like the gold modes and single frequencies on the nox and see where that gets me.
Thanks for that TP, I will mess around with the different modes as well to see if there is something conclusive to be had...

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  #11  
Old 12-03-2019, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mitch333 View post
The principal components of bituminous coal fly ash are silica, alumina, iron oxide, and calcium, with varying amounts of carbon, as measured by the loss on ignition. Depending upon the source and composition of the coal being burned, the components of fly ash vary considerably, but all fly ash includes substantial amounts of silicon dioxide (SiO2) (both amorphous and crystalline), aluminium oxide (Al2O3) and calcium oxide (CaO), the main mineral compounds in coal-bearing rock.

It does seem like it would be hard to penetrate.
GREAT information Mitch! THAT is the kind of info we might be able to play with. The whole ďaluminum oxideĒ thing scares me the most, as all things aluminum ANYTHING really run interference in the quest for coins! Thank you!

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  #12  
Old 12-03-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SoOregonMd View post
You should get about a 5 gallon bucket from your site, Take it home add to a mini test garden and play with it to see what gives you the best results..

Which mode do you feel so far works the best.. Beach
I have only used Park1 so far with the EQX800...I have a couple of other machines to test in there as well. FAIRGROUNDS, for some reason, have ALOT of this stuff in them. You know the second that the shovel goes into the ground that the cinders are there...a telltale ďcrunchyĒ sound....you know the one! Itís aggravating on one end, but holds ALOT of promise on the other end, because itís extremely tough to detect the coins that are inevitably in there, and itís been that way for everyone else too.
We WILL crack this, come hell or high water!

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  #13  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:09 PM
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One of my 100 year old parks in the bad part of town has areas with a lot of cinder fill and what I believe to be fly ash from the cement plant. I have done ok on recent drops with the Atpro sensitivity down to one or two bars but can't get it to stay ground balanced for more than a couple of steps. I think I do good on recent drops because no one else hunts it. In spite of all the shootings there are a lot of friendly people there. I'm always having young ladies ask if I'm looking for a girlfriend or if I want to go to a party.
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:19 PM
IDXMonster IDXMonster is offline
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Originally Posted by Scooterjim View post
One of my 100 year old parks in the bad part of town has areas with a lot of cinder fill and what I believe to be fly ash from the cement plant. I have done ok on recent drops with the Atpro sensitivity down to one or two bars but can't get it to stay ground balanced for more than a couple of steps. I think I do good on recent drops because no one else hunts it. In spite of all the shootings there are a lot of friendly people there. I'm always having young ladies ask if I'm looking for a girlfriend or if I want to go to a party.
Sounds like everything BUT the detecting is a good time over there Jim! Those coins might be safe for awhile, so donít work at it too hard...

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  #15  
Old 12-04-2019, 01:02 AM
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I believe field mode was made to deal with coke, (Ash) in England. Maybe that will work for you? Oops, I'm talking about the Equinox 800.

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Last edited by metaladdict; 12-04-2019 at 01:04 AM. Reason: Add info
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  #16  
Old 12-04-2019, 02:37 AM
IDXMonster IDXMonster is offline
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Originally Posted by metaladdict View post
I believe field mode was made to deal with coke, (Ash) in England. Maybe that will work for you? Oops, I'm talking about the Equinox 800.
No problem MA, I have the 800 and itís one of the machines Iíll try to get results with in there.

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  #17  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:40 AM
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"GREAT information Mitch!" ... It was the iron oxide that caught my eye, rust. It would seem to me it would play havoc with any coil. Does not seem to be a problem here tho, we have a coal fired plant right on the river, two of them actually and I think they either just dump it in the Mississippi or barge it back out when they bring in coal.
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  #18  
Old 12-04-2019, 10:13 AM
Tpmetal Tpmetal is offline
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Originally Posted by metaladdict View post
I believe field mode was made to deal with coke, (Ash) in England. Maybe that will work for you? Oops, I'm talking about the Equinox 800.
yeah that's what I started with(field 2 then field 1), still doesn't do terribly well at all
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  #19  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:01 PM
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coal clinkers are what they are called
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  #20  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:04 PM
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Hey IDX, wonder if Beach Mode on the Nox would work, as wet salt water sand is highly mineralized...
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