Master Hunter TR 1977 Garrett

The tr 77 machine is a good machine. I had a Gold Mountain vlf /tr machine and hunted alongside a guy with the Garrett Tr machine and he always did really well with his. You could still take that machine to a virgin yard and be very happy with your results. Let us know how u do. I still have my Gold Mountain , but I don't use it much.
You will dig Much less trash with the Tr than u will with the Bfo machine. Proper GB is a must on the Tr machine to achieve maximum depth.

BFO Guy: said:

Hey Folks,

I’m new to the forum and glad to be here.

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'Welcome' to Friendly Metal Detecting Forums. There are Forums many here but this is the only one I visit. You should get some good help from participants here.

BFO Guy: said:

I recently acquired an old Garrett Hunter from around 1969 or 1970 in excellent condition. It’s one of their early BFO types and it still works. And pretty good I might add, picking up a wheat penny at 7 1/2 to 8 inches in an air test using the small coil. I also picked up a like new 1977 Master Hunter TR. This same unit also went by the name Coin Master in ‘77.

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I have my old Garrett Hunter BFO, still in good working condition, that I use in my seminars and demonstrations. I also have a Master Hunter TR-Disc. from '76 with the two standard DD coils, and a Money Hunter TR-Disc. from '77 with just the single coil. All working and on-hand for the same uses.

You are correct on the two model names of Master Hunter and Coin Hunter. Back then, Garrett Electronics had a lot of models, some with minor differences. The name 'Master Hunter' referred to a top-end model that came standard with two (2) search coils. The Coin Hunter was, as you noted, the exact same detector, except for the side decal (model name) and it came with only one search coil.

Just to clarify, your '77 Master Hunter is a TR-Disc. model and not the VLF/TR-Disc. Master Hunter, correct?

BFO Guy: said:

I’d like to get some feedback on these units if anyone has anything interesting to share. In particular I’m waiting on a battery tray for the Master Hunter and I’m eager to learn the capabilities of this unit. What is the expected range for various coins? Any quirks or special instructions from an experienced user of this model?

Thanks.

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A quick question here is, how long have you been metal detecting, and what makes/models detectors have you used or do you currently own .... other than these vintage Garrett's?

That helps me, and others, to know what helpful suggestions we might have that are going to be counter to what you might currently be using. There are definite differences in operating technique and end-performance due to significant differences in operating frequency, circuitry design, etc. If these Garrett's happen to be your only detectors as you are getting started, well, life will be interesting.

Capabilities? Well, for one thing, these old TR-Disc. models have a more true-progressive range of Discrimination than most modern detectors. For example, turn the Disc. 'Off' to the 'standard' setting and they will basically ignore most common iron nails.

Expected range for various coins? By that do you mean a typical anticipated depth-of-detection? Those are generalities and will be dependent on the proper settings, search coil size and type and working search coil height, and the intensity of ground mineralization. As a rule, in most 'average' Coin Hunting environments, most coins will be located from surface to ±4" or 5". Any deeper than that and you are getting into a deep-coin depth region.

From personal experience back then, and when I grab one on occasion to play around today, I have found most coins at 5" or less depth, but have recovered some ... a small percentage ... down to 7" and 8" in the mineralized ground conditions I have to deal with.

Any 'quirks' or 'special instructions' for the old models? Yes, be patient when learning and using them. The conventional TR's and TR-Disc. model lack ground cancelling capability. Therefore, adjust the Tuner control to hear a slight audio hum referred to as a Threshold setting. Establish that Threshold audio with the search coil at a proper operating height, such as about 1" to 2" off the ground surface.

Then, as you slowly sweep the coil left-and-right, back-and-forth, you have to maintain a uniform coil-to-ground relationship. If you don't then you will get an audio increase when the coil is lifted away from the ground, or a nulling of the audio if the coil is lower closer to the ground. The operator then has to restore the proper Threshold hum and that's best done by correcting the coil-to-ground operating height.

Best detection depth and easier operation are achieved with the control set at 'standard' w/o using variable Discrimination. If you access the Disc. settings, the falsing operation will be more pronounced as the Discrimination level is increased. This is especially true if you are searching a more highly mineralized ground condition.

As you use them, you'll probably ask more specific questions. If you have any incidental questions you are also welcome to drop me an e-mail. You can also refer to Sven's 'Treasurelinx' site to get more product description from the Owner Manuals.

Monte

I have been aware of metal detecting since childhood when my Dad used a home made Beachcomber from the article in Popular Electronics ‘67. I’d say my actual experience detecting is only minor. I too made the beachcomber while in college and used it some. I now have an Ace 300 and the two vintage Garrett’s. And it is the TR/Disc. And it also came with both the 8” and the 14” inch coils even though it has a coin hunter sticker on it. Maybe the original owner just bought the extra coil.
I want to get into detecting more seriously and I think I have some good potential opportunities. But I love the old stuff and though I have the Ace 300 I think I will enjoy the Master Hunter more. I’m funny that way.
I am also an electronics tinkerer and I’m experimenting with some unique ideas for a metal detector design.
I have read a little on the use of the old detectors but I’m waiting on a battery tray to come in before I can use the Master Hunter. I understand they require a bit more from the operator than the newer digital ones but I think I have a mediocre grasp of the fundamentals. I’ll find out once I can power it up I guess. Thanks for the tuning info. That is good to know since I can’t locate a manual for it.
My family’s old homestead has highly mineralized ground for sure. Sometimes we dig up strong signals only to find ghost targets that disappear when the dirt is broken up from digging. We had to run about 30% to 35% disc there to keep from going crazy with the Ace 300. We like to dig everything sometimes just to see what is there but with ground that hot it isn’t much fun then.

Thanks again and I’ll be back once she’s oscillatin’.

Ok, battery box came in and the old ‘77 is oscillatin!
I have a question about tuning. I have noticed that I can get the “threshold” audio at different needle positions on the meter depending on settings. I’m not sure if there is an optimal tuning that puts the needle in a particular spot. I assumed that since the meter has labels at both ends marked “good” and “bad” that I should tune for audio tone with the meter reading centered. That way I can see good targets move up and bad targets move Down. Though I’m not sure if that is correct as the center position is not marked with anything special. It seems to work well, picking up most coins in air at 8” max and my ring at 10” to 11”.

So what meter reading should I be shooting for here as far as tuning goes?

I found instructions for tuning the Groundhog and it says to turn the volume/on-off control fully on and then tune the metal/null until you hear the tone. Does that apply here for this unit as well? Seems odd to always run a variable control wide open.

I sure wish I could find a manual. Maybe someone can email me one?

Any additional help is appreciated.

The groundhogs have two sides of the null. Tuning one direction until you get a motorboat beat will cause the beat to slow down over metal, while tuning the other direction will cause a faster beat over metal. I have the original first dual coil model. Although you may notice more trash with the bfo, it has the unique feature of automatically tuning out (slight null) small nails,paper clips while sounding of with coins, jewelry underneath or next to. It will find gold chains easier than the t/r. The master Hunter was mainly a coin Hunter and, as I remember, centering the meter works best-same reasons you said. I liked tuning the Master Hunter an inch above ground then lowering the coil. Also, this way I could just lay the coil on the ground when retrieving coins.

sllingshot47: said:

The groundhogs have two sides of the null. Tuning one direction until you get a motorboat beat will cause the beat to slow down over metal, while tuning the other direction will cause a faster beat over metal. I have the original first dual coil model. Although you may notice more trash with the bfo, it has the unique feature of automatically tuning out (slight null) small nails,paper clips while sounding of with coins, jewelry underneath or next to. It will find gold chains easier than the t/r. The master Hunter was mainly a coin Hunter and, as I remember, centering the meter works best-same reasons you said. I liked tuning the Master Hunter an inch above ground then lowering the coil. Also, this way I could just lay the coil on the ground when retrieving coins.

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???? I think it's been a while and you've forgotten the early versions. The Garrett GroundHog series were 15 kHz VLF/TR-Disc. models and they used a single-direction Tuner control to establish a working Threshold.

The very early BFO's and TR's were mainly Metal / Mineral Locators. Those allowed Turning either side of the Null point to respond to Metals (non-ferrous targets) or Minerals (ferrous targets). When they went to the TR-Disc. models, most of them were adjustable only for a Threshold level that started out generally 'ignoring' most common Iron Nails when in a selected 'standard' setting, or going to the variable Discrimination range. Most often, at the minimum Disc. setting it was high enough to reject, or Discriminate, Bottle Caps and adjusted up from there.

If you adjusted the Tuner for a proper Threshold audio hum at about a 1" coil height, lowering the coil to the ground could null it enough to have poor performance, especisally in more iron mineralized ground conditions. The TR's were at-their-best with a uniform or consistent coil-to-ground relationship and maintaining a proper slight audio hum.

BFO Guy: said:

Ok, battery box came in and the old ‘77 is oscillatin!
I have a question about tuning. I have noticed that I can get the “threshold” audio at different needle positions on the meter depending on settings. I’m not sure if there is an optimal tuning that puts the needle in a particular spot. I assumed that since the meter has labels at both ends marked “good” and “bad” that I should tune for audio tone with the meter reading centered. That way I can see good targets move up and bad targets move Down. Though I’m not sure if that is correct as the center position is not marked with anything special. It seems to work well, picking up most coins in air at 8” max and my ring at 10” to 11”.

So what meter reading should I be shooting for here as far as tuning goes?

I found instructions for tuning the Groundhog and it says to turn the volume/on-off control fully on and then tune the metal/null until you hear the tone. Does that apply here for this unit as well? Seems odd to always run a variable control wide open.

I sure wish I could find a manual. Maybe someone can email me one?

Any additional help is appreciated.

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BFO's 'oscillated' while TR's generate an Electro-Magnetic Field (EMF) as their principle of operation. BFO's were a Frequency or Pitch change while the TR's are Loudness-change designs.

I just sold a very nice-condition and properly-working Money Hunter TR on Father's Dy at our yard sale. It was a '77 production with the coplanar coil. I still have my Master Hunter TR-Disc. manufactured in '76 with both of the coils which are Wide-Scan or Double-D type coils. The Master Hunter also has a Sensitivity control as well a a Meter-adjust control to have the needle register at your desired setting.

If I recall, the lesser-priced versions didn't have the meter-adjust function and when the unit's Tuner control was adjusted for a proper Threshold hum, the needle would rest ± the first bold line close to the 'D' in the word 'DETECTION' under the reference marks. Never adjust that '77 TR-Disc. for the needle to be 'centered' as that would be a way too positive setting well above the proper Threshold Hum level.

I have an Owner's Mnual for my TR-Disc. Garrett, but it is somewhere in storage. When they finish all my flooring installation on the 2nd I will start moving things back in. Then, when I find the manual, I'll let you know.

Monte

Specific questions? Just e-mail me.

Monte said:

???? I think it's been a while and you've forgotten the early versions. The Garrett GroundHog series were 15 kHz VLF/TR-Disc. models and they used a single-direction Tuner control to establish a working Threshold.

The very early BFO's and TR's were mainly Metal / Mineral Locators. Those allowed Turning either side of the Null point to respond to Metals (non-ferrous targets) or Minerals (ferrous targets). When they went to the TR-Disc. models, most of them were adjustable only for a Threshold level that started out generally 'ignoring' most common Iron Nails when in a selected 'standard' setting, or going to the variable Discrimination range. Most often, at the minimum Disc. setting it was high enough to reject, or Discriminate, Bottle Caps and adjusted up from there.

If you adjusted the Tuner for a proper Threshold audio hum at about a 1" coil height, lowering the coil to the ground could null it enough to have poor performance, especisally in more iron mineralized ground conditions. The TR's were at-their-best with a uniform or consistent coil-to-ground relationship and maintaining a proper slight audio hum.

BFO's 'oscillated' while TR's generate an Electro-Magnetic Field (EMF) as their principle of operation. BFO's were a Frequency or Pitch change while the TR's are Loudness-change designs.

I just sold a very nice-condition and properly-working Money Hunter TR on Father's Dy at our yard sale. It was a '77 production with the coplanar coil. I still have my Master Hunter TR-Disc. manufactured in '76 with both of the coils which are Wide-Scan or Double-D type coils. The Master Hunter also has a Sensitivity control as well a a Meter-adjust control to have the needle register at your desired setting.

If I recall, the lesser-priced versions didn't have the meter-adjust function and when the unit's Tuner control was adjusted for a proper Threshold hum, the needle would rest ± the first bold line close to the 'D' in the word 'DETECTION' under the reference marks. Never adjust that '77 TR-Disc. for the needle to be 'centered' as that would be a way too positive setting well above the proper Threshold Hum level.

I have an Owner's Mnual for my TR-Disc. Garrett, but it is somewhere in storage. When they finish all my flooring installation on the 2nd I will start moving things back in. Then, when I find the manual, I'll let you know.

Monte

Specific questions? Just e-mail me.

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Oh- I thought he said it was "the early BFO type".

sllingshot47 said:

Oh- I thought he said it was "the early BFO type".

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He did say he bought an early BFO, but he also said:

"I also picked up a like new 1977 Master Hunter TR. This same unit also went by the name Coin Master in ‘77."

Those used the slide-in battery tray he had ordered and was waiting to get. That was a TR model. The old Hunter BFO he referred to, from '69 or '70, didn't have a slide-in battery tray. I have one myself and they use the clip-in or snap-in 9-V batteries.

Monte

Monte said:

He did say he bought an early BFO, but he also said:

"I also picked up a like new 1977 Master Hunter TR. This same unit also went by the name Coin Master in ‘77."

Those used the slide-in battery tray he had ordered and was waiting to get. That was a TR model. The old Hunter BFO he referred to, from '69 or '70, didn't have a slide-in battery tray. I have one myself and they use the clip-in or snap-in 9-V batteries.

Monte

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Yep! Just looked at my BFO-HUNTER! I DO remember the vlf/tr groundhogs! I would search in vlf overlooking the wide iron signals- then switch to t/r using reverse discrimination. Got some depth that way. Nice to go back in time!

I notice when I tune this Master Hunter (coin hunter) by setting the meter position lower it does have slightly better depth.
New problem though with drifting out of tune. In static position in the house with no metal around I tune the unit and over the course of about 10 seconds or so the tone drifts down slowly until it goes silent. I can hit the push button once and get it back but then it repeats. Is this normal or is this due to old capacitors drying out?

BFO Guy: said:

I notice when I tune this Master Hunter (coin hunter) by setting the meter position lower it does have slightly better depth.

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Correct. The TR-Disc. unit you have will get a little better depth and sensitivity/response with a 'proper' Threshold level. Yu want to just barely hear and audible hum, and that will have the meter needle resting close to the main line close to the 'D' in DETECTION.

BFO Guy: said:

New problem though with drifting out of tune.

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'Drift' was one of the things we had to deal with and why those models had a retune button. To retune or restore a properly-set Threshold-level hum. Later, manufacturers incorporated some Autotune circuitry so the user would not have to manually retune.

BFO Guy: said:

In static position in the house with no metal around I tune the unit and over the course of about 10 seconds or so the tone drifts down slowly until it goes silent. I can hit the push button once and get it back but then it repeats. Is this normal or is this due to old capacitors drying out?

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Yes, it is basically 'normal' to experience 'drift.' It can be caused by:

• A detector's circuitry 'warming up" once turned 'On.'

• By the device being moved from the sun or a warmer environment to a shaded or cooler environment.

• Or, just the reverse of going from cooler to warmer conditions.

Things like removing it from a house or vehicle into a different temperature environment. Naturally, component age or failure can also contribute to 'drift' but we just need to maintain proper settings, proper search coil height and control, and monitor any significant 'drifting' and manually toggle to or use a push-button to restore a proper Threshold hum.

We used to have some very good, quality-built detectors in those days of long ago that served us well. I occasionally enjoy taking one or two of my older favorite models out for a brief hunt. Today, I especially like some of the very good detectors in my personal Outfit because they eliminate all the drifting and other problems we used to deal with.

Monte

Thanks for all the info. I don’t mind the quirks as long as they are expected and don’t degrade the function. The quirks are part of the fun for me in using the older technology.
I read about the push button tuning but it was described as needed due to changing ground conditions. In my testing here it was just sitting in a chair. I know some of the older capacitors have a tendency to degrade over time but without a schematic I don’t know where they are in the circuit or what problems might be attributed to that. I’ve heard of folks replacing them but I don’t know if this is a symptom of that or not.

BFO Guy: said:

Thanks for all the info. I don’t mind the quirks as long as they are expected and don’t degrade the function. The quirks are part of the fun for me in using the older technology.
I read about the push button tuning but it was described as needed due to changing ground conditions. In my testing here it was just sitting in a chair. I know some of the older capacitors have a tendency to degrade over time but without a schematic I don’t know where they are in the circuit or what problems might be attributed to that. I’ve heard of folks replacing them but I don’t know if this is a symptom of that or not.

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I wouldn't be too concerned about it. Yes, the manual says it is used in searches due to ground mineral changes, etc., but it also occurs simply due to 'drift' and when it is started up and the circuitry is 'warming up' or due to general temperature changes.

Just enjoy it as it is. I'm going to be offering my Master Hunter TR-Disc. w/both coils at a yard sale tomorrow and Saturday. That means I'll get into my tote and look for the Owner's Manual and if I find it, I'll let you know.

Monte

Much appreciated. Let me know.

Thanks

So, I managed to get out and do some Forrest detecting last week. Wow, folks weren’t kidding when they said these tr’s were temperamental on rough terrain. It was a challenge to keep a steady tone over dips and leaf piles and such. It took me a while and a lot of working the tune button but eventually I learned to tell the difference between the targets and the bouncy terrain. I did not experiment with the sensitivity control very much I just ran it full on. I’ll play with that when I can bury some test targets. I am amazed at how sensitive this thing is to the ground. I’m using the 8” coil and I’m wondering if a 6 or 5 inch coil would be less sensitive to the ground here in southwest Va ? I don’t have any coils less than the 8” but I could look for a 6” I guess. Might not make much difference.
I did manage to find a Sears & Roebuck MALLARD shotgun shell head which dates back to the 20’-40’s. I thought that was cool. Also found a heavy chain link that was open on one side. It is one that is designed with a diagonal cut on one end to allow it to be pried open and closed again. Maybe it’s just a common adjustable link or maybe that design dates it back some time I don’t know yet. It was old and rusty and quite heavy. Probably from a logging chain. Also found some pull tabs, maybe I put those there when I was a kid. Serves me right for littering, lol.
Everything was shallow but in a heavily rooted forrest maybe things don’t sink very fast.
I found the machine to be sufficiently light weight and fun to use though challenging for sure.