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  #81  
Old 05-14-2017, 11:28 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Based on some careful test,,, Rutus users hunting hard hunted sites,,reactive levels settings 3 and 4,, IMO will provide some 3D ummasking/separation combined on nonferrous objects-- this 3D performance not seen with a lot of other detector models---hint.

Levels 5-8 IMO tend to be more for advancing the separation capabilities in extremely tight moreso 2 dimensional situations. Depth is limited moreso here using the 5-8 settings.

Key thing here,,for max 3D performance run at max frequency, big difference in say comparing 15khz vs 18.4 kHz.

It has been said by one detectorist/engineer that Xp Deus violates at least one rule of physics if not more,,,well I truly think if this same person tested Rutus detector he likely would say it too violates physics rule to some degree.

It is very apparent now,,whomever engineered and designed Rutus detector,,a bullseye was drawn on the Xp Deus' back.

I still can't say for sure if they hit the bullseye or not.
I can say right now,,appears they at Least got awfully close.
I certainly don't know much about Rutus manufacturer and their prior manufacturer detectors.

The biggie still outstanding for me is mineral handling capabilities Rutus possesses.
Need more time/outings to comment.

And so folks understand,,this talk above is with 11" dd coil attached.

I am not really fond of the concentric coil,,not yet anyway.

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  #82  
Old 05-14-2017, 11:40 AM
graybeard graybeard is offline
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Question does the rutus 71 have mixed mode? I have seen it listed on a forum that it has mixed mode. Mixed mode operates in two things at the same time, meaning motion and non-motion at once, discriminate and all metal at the same time.
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  #83  
Old 05-14-2017, 11:45 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by graybeard View post
Question does the rutus 71 have mixed mode? I have seen it listed on a forum that it has mixed mode. Mixed mode operates in two things at the same time, meaning motion and non-motion at once, discriminate and all metal at the same time.
Yes

All Metal channel and disc can be run simultaneously.

I have run only a little bit so far,,,most of my time has been in sites loaded with iron, not cleaner ground.

Probably a good idea to post link to operators manual
Here is basic version manual
http://rutus.com.pl/en/file-list/download/21

Here is link explaining what version update did. 1.1
http://rutus.com.pl/en/file-list/download/29

This detector not user updatable,,must be done by manufacturer.
Unlike Xp Deus and Nokta Impact.
When folks see the word updated,,they may get the wrong idea.
And we don't want that to happen.

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  #84  
Old 05-14-2017, 02:03 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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More Rutus tests and comparisons.

I think now after testing on coins buried longer,,not freshly buried,,,freshly buried is tied to the why behind why higher freqs do better.

Over a deep nickel.,,Rutus pounds it in 9khz.
Deus in 8khz falls short here,,does signal but 12khz has to be employed to get equivalent signal to Rutus using 9khz.
What about Impact???
Stock coil,,,good signal using DI2,,even DI3 mode,,,interesting here. DI4 mode doesn't do as well,,,and even by varying sens I can't get DI4 to give anywhere near equal signal as the other modes. I did seem like Imwas getting some emi using dI4 mode though and couldn't mitigate.

Rating these detectors over this one target,,been buried for 2 years.
Rutus ranks tops
Then Deus
Then Impact.
Btw,,,Rutus had 11" dd coil,,Deus 11" dd coil,Impactt 7x11" DD coil.
Deus and Impact with latest versions,,Rutus has original version,,not sure if newer version affects depth capabilities,,from what I've read it don't look like it.
Rutus does give a more wide range here freq wise to detect this target from mediocre to real well.

For a Deus user Using 12 and 18khz the ones to use,,8 khz a user might walk right buy.

Impact,,using 20khz the best,,,then 14khz,,,5khz a no no freq to use here to detect as is 4khz for Deus.

Remember my ground here where this target is ranks 4 bars f75 detector,,or medium minerlized.

Also. Rutus provided a very good signal even running disc to level 30.
Deus was compared with disc at 6,,I did this because this is where both detectors seems to get rid of most nails disc wise.
Did check using 0 disc on all detectors too with associated tones set to actually hunt,,no massaging anything. And the ranking here unchanged.

Impact was checked disc levels 0 and 3,,, a 0 setting did do a tad better.
Imask setting on Impact at 0.
Silencer on Deus -1
Mask setting on Rutus 3.

Also this is important here I think,,this target using Rutus,,,gain at 50 btw,,you up the sens past 83 (and this advancement above 83 seems more linear as far as signal chop) signal sounds choppy on the edges,,,lower sens to 70,, a beautiful smooth signal edge to edge.
Even lowered to 55,, with headphones this signal very diggable.
On a clam day,,even using external speaker in a quiet place with no wind.

Rutus is showing signs of good performance in minerals here IMO,,,still not ready to rank or say how good.

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  #85  
Old 05-14-2017, 05:02 PM
Bkeepes Bkeepes is offline
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So tnsharpshooter should I cancel my order on the Impact and go for the Rutus? Just from what you have seen so far is it much better?

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  #86  
Old 05-14-2017, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bkeepes View post
So tnsharpshooter should I cancel my order on the Impact and go for the Rutus? Just from what you have seen so far is it much better?
Can't say,,not enough time on Rutus,and haven't been in enough varied sites.

I can say Impact with smallest coil,,will find a person nonferrous things (detecting scenario wise) Rutus won't. Now I can say the same about Deus here too,,but to be fair,,,there is a small elliptical coil that runs at higher frequency coming for Deus. Could it compete with Impact wearing smallest coil in separation and unmasking??
Time may tell.

But they don't give those coils for Deus away either,,,so even an already Deus owner/user,,,get ready to spend the Bucks.

Will I ever have high frequency elliptical coil for Deus??
Probably not.
But who knows I may pic one up used in the future maybe.

For a one detector one coil setup,,,Nokta Impact wearing smallest manufacturer's elliptical shaped coil,,,this provides a user let's say when you combine depth envelope and separation/unmasking envelopes,,for all combo coil detectors I have used.
Impact in this configuration gives standout performance. Notice I don't say best here.
Why???
I haven't ran all detector and coil combos worldy made.

Btw if an aftermarket company can make a small coil for Impact and it will beat in a combined fashion the depth, separating/unmasking,,,,the manufacturer's smallest coil sold,,,,Will be interesting to see in action and use.
Can it be done??
Will be tough IMO.

It is First Texas' turn here,,,let's see what they can do with their next release.
Folks are watching I think.
I am.

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  #87  
Old 05-14-2017, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bkeepes View post
So tnsharpshooter should I cancel my order on the Impact and go for the Rutus? Just from what you have seen so far is it much better?


Your always going to find scenarios where one detector "could" do better than another depending on what settings or coil is used. No one hunts that way unless you know what's under your feet, and if you know what's under your feet just dig it up. Small coils also have a specialized purpose and they are not as deep. This goes for the XP HF Elliptical as well. They are not general purpose hunting coils. There is give and take with everything. An optimal setting in one scenario may be piss poor in another. If you have a questionable signal or you know your location is a place with historical significance, dig it up and don't waist your time with analysis paralysis. There is a reason Tesoro detectors are designed the way they are. There is no "one" visual feature that is completely reliable, be it a hodograph or an x/y screen. All these fancy features are tools that can help you "guess" what's under your coil. Your brain is what puts everything together and will come with experience with your machine.

You will be fine with the impact.
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  #88  
Old 05-14-2017, 06:09 PM
Bkeepes Bkeepes is offline
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10-4 I was just curious if the Rutus had impressed you more than the Impact so far. I just posted on the Impact thread yesterday that I am going to hold out on buying a coil because I think there will be some aftermarket ones showing up in the near future.

I just like to read all the comparisons between the new machines just coming out. In all honesty I feel they are all good machines it's basically the preference of the person swinging it.

The Rutus having 71 frequencies is pretty impressive though. I just wanted to hear your opinion since you've swung them both. Thanks for the info!

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  #89  
Old 05-14-2017, 09:25 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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More Rutus data.
This data here may give current and future Rutus users something to think about.

Reactive setting on Rutus does drive depth capabilities.
But here is some test data that might be helpful for a user to consider.

Test object,,,buried nickel 10" deep,,been buried approx 2 years.

Using Rutus in any and all freqs when testing,,,no apparent emi in headphones from an audio standpoint.

Rutus when set to say 3 reactive setting,,,starting at the low end freqs wise,,and only using GB preset value,,,nickel detection don't start happening until 6khz,,7 khz is better,,and As I progress upwards,,I find 16khz to give the best signal.
Now I did check nickel even with an actual GB at 6khz,,,not a signal I liked choppy.

So at 16khz,,where I feel on this one target setting,,,gives the best signal.
This best signal is with lower gain at 50,, and with lower sensitivity.
A level 50 sensivity acquires nickel with diggable signal.

Now here is what is interesting.
If I set my gain to 50,, keep sens at say 65 or so,,,,I can detect this deep nickel using reactive settings 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and yes even 6. I rate the signal at reactive 6 as a signal I recognize cause I know the nickel is down there. The rest wearing headphones are very diggable signals.
Reactive setting 1 is a bit constrictive sounding though.

What I am getting at here,,,if you come off of this 16khz freq setting,,,,you won't detect this nickel in as many reactive settings levels.

If you go to say 8khz,,,you can scrub reactive levels 5, and 4 for sure.
If you go to max freq 18.4khz you can scrub 5 and probably 4 for sure.

Now I did go back and redo checks while attaining an actual GB.
And the same thing(s) were revealed.

So a per own hunting deep nickels,,,could in fact if using 16khz could open up their detection window scenario by using a higher reactive setting.
Now if the nickel were deeper say 11",,would this data change as far as detection?? Likely

And if the nickel were shallower would the data change as far as a reactive window setting for detection?? Likely and a reactive setting of 6 here likely comes more into play as giving a useable signal.

Now how would say a 9" deep dime here play???
This is what Inneed to do and hopefully I can in a couple weeks.

Seems if the Rutus is dialed let's say perfect freq wise for a certain object,,,more latitude settings wise are possible and still attain good signals.

This hot rock setting.
I am still a bit mystified about it.
Why???

The manual doesn't explain this,,,so I will pose a few questions scenarios.

If I adjust hot rock setting to say +5 setting,,,and not do an actual GB but use preset GB is the hot rock setting applied to detector's programming???
Meaning is the ground balance being offset from the preset GB value???

And of course when I do an actual GB to the actual ground,,,it would only make sense any hot rock setting be it positive or negative would be applied to detector.

So does the hot rock setting actually for whatever it is worth,,,,can this be manually adjusting the GB if I use factory preset procedure.

I have been playing around with this deeper nickel.
Wish I knew the real true answers here.

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  #90  
Old 05-14-2017, 10:01 PM
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Is this a different nickel than your previous post TNSS? Why was the previous nickel pounded at 9kHz, but the 2nd was better at 16?

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  #91  
Old 05-14-2017, 10:37 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by Donsell View post
Is this a different nickel than your previous post TNSS? Why was the previous nickel pounded at 9kHz, but the 2nd was better at 16?
Yes the same nickel,,,but this last posting,,I rigged the detector,,,so I could determine IMO which freq was giving best signal,,,then I started playing with reactive settings.

I did this to see how the freq as it interacts on known conductive target,,how the other settings affect.

So in the future when I decide on a freq to use.
Need data on a rather deep undisturbed dime,,and maybe quarter,,,then I think Inwould have some even better data to choose my freq.

Remember using Rutus,,,can a person hunt a site one time,,,and clean it out???
Meaning detect all nonferrous Rutus is truly capable of.
I say no,,based on my testing thus far.
But what if I were given just one shot to hunt a site,,what then???
This is what I'm after here.

And yes the 9khz signal was very good btw.

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  #92  
Old 05-14-2017, 11:31 PM
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Your settings look pretty close to the default coins program. They used 15 kHz, reaction, and masking both at 4. Gain at 20.

I haven't played with the Hot Rock setting either. The default programs from Rutus only set it in the all metal programs, Ultra Deep, Deep and Big Silver. Does it only affect when the detector is in all metal or dual mode?

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  #93  
Old 05-14-2017, 11:50 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by Donsell View post
Your settings look pretty close to the default coins program. They used 15 kHz, reaction, and masking both at 4. Gain at 20.

I haven't played with the Hot Rock setting either. The default programs from Rutus only set it in the all metal programs, Ultra Deep, Deep and Big Silver. Does it only affect when the detector is in all metal or dual mode?
Well,
I don't have a lot of confidence in say what the default coin settings are.
This is not a shot at Rutus here by no means.
But coinage,,depending on what country can be different.

Hunting coinage say in UK for example,,different than USA.
Can there be some similarities some times depending on a site?? Definitely.

As far as the hot rock setting,,,seems it can be used to purposely wrap a signal or purposely make a target read lower than with hot rock to neural setting.
I think it affects disc channel reporting.

I just don't want to overlook any possible things as far as what a setting might do for me.

There is a chance I should leave at neutral too.

Now with what I have said about the nickel being detected using more reactive settings while 16khz was employed.
What I need to do,,is use 16khz and see how Rutus performs on my nickel below 2 nails at 2" test.
Maybe even try to raise nails higher too and experiement.
With the reactive settings of 4-5.
If Rutus passes here,,would be good to know.

To get good 3D performance,,,good 2D performance in separation and unmasking,,and get depth all at the same time with one set of settings--the goal here.
An 8" round DD coil,,,boy would I like to see.

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  #94  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View post
Your always going to find scenarios where one detector "could" do better than another depending on what settings or coil is used. No one hunts that way unless you know what's under your feet, and if you know what's under your feet just dig it up. Small coils also have a specialized purpose and they are not as deep. This goes for the XP HF Elliptical as well. They are not general purpose hunting coils. There is give and take with everything. An optimal setting in one scenario may be piss poor in another. If you have a questionable signal or you know your location is a place with historical significance, dig it up and don't waist your time with analysis paralysis. There is a reason Tesoro detectors are designed the way they are. There is no "one" visual feature that is completely reliable, be it a hodograph or an x/y screen. All these fancy features are tools that can help you "guess" what's under your coil. Your brain is what puts everything together and will come with experience with your machine.

You will be fine with the impact.
run a Teknetics 5" coil and then change what you said about that small coils do not run deep.....

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  #95  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:54 PM
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Hunted with Rutus all day using 11" DD coil.
Folks this detector for hunting around iron is for real.

For the 11" stock sized DD coil,,,don't underestimate this detector in iron.

Folks may find this next statement shocking,,but I believe in the truth and nothing but the truth.

With stock sized coils attached to every detector I have Run,,,Rutus is different and IMO different as in " good different "!!

We seem to always hear folks say audio is king,,,let it drive your decision to dig or not.
Guess what,,Rutus here the way hodograph works,,,extraordinary what it does for a user.

This hodograph is not a one dimensional graph,,,more than this.

I haven't been digging much iron or nails with Rutus,,,but have made some recoveries involving challenged nonferrous targets.
Without the meter,,,a user using Rutus will likely dig more iron basing their decision on tone alone or will walk off and away from nonferrous targets.

Some real ingenuity here with Rutus' meter.

If a person let's the iron tone heard mixed in with supposed nonferrous tone,,if they think this iron rolling up to the tone, and then it comes back in after,,,,you walk here,,you may lose.
And believe it or not,,this iron tone you hear here,,,can and CANNOT be caused by ferrous materials,,,in my opinion,,the ground minerals can cause it too in conjunction with shape conductivity of target.

This detector's audio not as digital sounding as another detector that is good in iron,,,but make no mistake this baby if all tools are used and studied,,tell tale signs of a nonferrous target is there.

I guarantee during the first 2 days of using Rutus,,I left nonferrous targets in the ground unintentionally.

The hodograph seems to be really helping give me a dig or no dig decision,,,especially on signals a user would swear is a wrap signal by just listening.

Every signal the coil comes over and higher tone is achieved,,a user needs go through their routine here,,and YES hodograph info I consider very vital.

What are the tale tale signs to look for,,on the hodograph screen.

First does the hodograph data lay down on the screen,,,stretch full from left to right of the screen-- if it does likely ferrous.
Turning 90degees if it looks the same even more likely ferrous.
A backwards letter C style shaped formed in right portion,,likely ferrous.
Most times I see number movement say a spread of less than 30 points,,if you see 90 plus point spread,,likely iron.

A user needs to listen to the melody playing,,,I ran today disc of 5,, max freq 18.4khz,,mask setting 2, gain 50,,sensivity 81.
Used external speaker,,,tried to use full headphones but too HOT.

Is a user sees the little curly cue stream up the middle portion of screen on sweeps,,this I find is very telling, even if you don't like the sound of audio very much.

The trace or little stick sticking more upwards can have slight lean,,,you see this even if the trace tries to lay down when sweeping from 90 degrees,,lookout.

Now iron tone in the background,,,it seems to me it wil, have a very slight break,,if iron tone is stuttering,,,these targets I find are ferrous.
But steady iron tone,,even if it sounds abrasive,,watch the hodograph,,and listen for a consistent melody between iron tone and nonferrous tones with controlled sweep.

This the way the hodograph works,,,reminds me in a way of the cursor on Etrac.

I ran reactive at levels 3 and 4 today,,,did drop to level 2 to try after some dirt was dug,,to signal on what turned out to be a approx 9" deep find.

I need more time on this detector,,,but the tendencies I see right now,,,I am flabbergasted to see how all the tone,,meter numbers and hodograph can paint a picture using this detector.

Something else too,,this detector likes small nonferrous even with 11" coil,,likes round and irregular shapes too.

If anyone gets a chance to be around some one using one of these in a iron ridden site and they know how to operate keenly,,,watch how it performs.
And watch just how little iron is dug.

Simply amazing..

User of Rutus better not be dismissive of targets based on tone alone- big mistake.

Also more times than not,,,a weak pinpoint and small is a good sign of nonferrous,,,but some times the detecting scenario won't allow.

And a user who gets a big pinpoint,,,better not just walk off immediately.
Unless of course you can raise coil signifiant height and still get signal with pinpoint.

Rutus will do some 3D unmasking,,and if you decide to pass on suspect target solely on pinpoint being big(er),,could be a mistake.

Rutus got some real respect from me today.

Even my hunting buddy was resting and I got a signal,,remember I was using external speaker,,,I told him it was a nonferrous target down there.
He said,,what that tone don't sound right with the iron tones trying to dominate.

Out pops the nonferrous.
Oh yea the little curly cue thingy sticking up in the screen, not from all sweep directions either.

I did listen to a few of my find's today after finding using disc level 5,, turned disc up to level 30,,, did this get rid of iron tone altogether trying to roll in on nonferrous tone?? No,,in some cases it may have reduced,,a few it may have elimate altogether or reduced to a smidge.

I have a new addition to my detector family now,,,one that will not be going anywhere anytime soon.

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  #96  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:12 PM
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Great report TNSS. The Rutus does give the user a lot of information. It takes a while to learn how to read it all.

The hodograph was a big reason I chose the Rutus. The Rutus is looking like a very capable machine, especially for the price.

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  #97  
Old 05-16-2017, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Donsell View post
Great report TNSS. The Rutus does give the user a lot of information. It takes a while to learn how to read it all.

The hodograph was a big reason I chose the Rutus. The Rutus is looking like a very capable machine, especially for the price.
Thanks Donsell.

For anyone who's interested.

I have rechargeable batteries in Rutus.

Ran today using highest freq for around 7.5 hours.
Half battery still showing in meter when done detecting.
Using rechargeables,,,,seems the battery meter drops sorta fast at first some,,,then stabilizes.
Likely normal ops since the rechargeables are only 1.2 volts each.

I have noticed though,,you run lower freqs,,,will eat battery power up faster.

Backlight was off today throughout.

Bright sunshine today,,there were times screen was a little hard to see, not many.

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  #98  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Thanks Donsell.

For anyone who's interested.

I have rechargeable batteries in Rutus.

Ran today using highest freq for around 7.5 hours.
Half battery still showing in meter when done detecting.
Using rechargeables,,,,seems the battery meter drops sorta fast at first some,,,then stabilizes.
Likely normal ops since the rechargeables are only 1.2 volts each.

I have noticed though,,you run lower freqs,,,will eat battery power up faster.

Backlight was off today throughout.

Bright sunshine today,,there were times screen was a little hard to see, not many.
The batteries goes a while a long. And indeed the 1.2v rechargeable does the meter drop fast.
From what I have hear (didn't test myself) if the voltage goes very low like last bar battery meter. Its going to have some EMI.

I have some Ni-zn rechargeable batteries on the way. They are 1.6V, and if correct the batterymeter will be me more accurate. But more important. The operating voltage will maintained as long as possible.
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:05 AM
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Donsell Donsell is offline
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I'm still using the Duracell's supplied by Rutus. I'm about 30 hours in and they're on the last bar. I was planning to switch to Eneloops before my next outing. The meter did drop to half after about 8 hours of use, but that doesn't represent half the battery life.

I still have had no issues with EMI with the Rutus.

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Old 05-16-2017, 09:08 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by wackid View post
The batteries goes a while a long. And indeed the 1.2v rechargeable does the meter drop fast.
From what I have hear (didn't test myself) if the voltage goes very low like last bar battery meter. Its going to have some EMI.

I have some Ni-zn rechargeable batteries on the way. They are 1.6V, and if correct the batterymeter will be me more accurate. But more important. The operating voltage will maintained as long as possible.
Thanks for sharing.
Rutus is quiet,,,real quiet.
I like that.
Actually,,,check this out.

Yesterday my friend had his Nokta relic detector turned on laying on the ground.
Remember 19khz Dectector.

I ran my Rutus when dialed to 18.4khz when turned on right up near My buds coil,,,,I couldn't even get any feedback in my audio until I got Rutus coil about a foot away from his coil.

Whatever shielding Rutus has employed,,,it works and works well.

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