Big Boys Hobbies

frustration

Cfmct said:
Some of the beaches here in CT have a rule that anything over a $50 value must be turned into the management running the beach... yeah right... all I find is pull tabs and bottlecaps.. :yes:
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No beaches close enough for me to hunt, but I am somewhat amazed at that rule, I have no problem with returning something I know is going to the rightful owner, and I would prefer to think all management is trustworthy, but how do you know the management is trustworthy and not just keeping it for themselves or having friends/relatives come by and claim them ?
 
REAL_RAT_FINK said:
... I actually met the KOB and that should have tipped me off :dash3:
Click to expand...

I haven't met the Kob, so I'll have to take your word for it ! :wow:

KOB said:
.... How do you know they didn't take the ring off and throw it into the water on purpose ? ...
Click to expand...

As crazy as this sounds, it's not unusual or unique. I heard of a couple who was engaged. The guy had given the gal a nice ring. But then a few weeks later, they got into an argument in front of a big municipal fountain thing. She took the ring off, and threw it into the water of the fountain ! (one of those big pool type affairs that's like a glass reflecting pool type thing, 1/2 block big).

The guy, not wanting to be seen wading around in the fountain in broad daylight, came back at night with shorts on & flashlight. So that he could wade into the fountain . I guess some authority saw this weirdo out there in the middle of the night , sloshing around and shining lights. He had to explain the situation to them. Not sure if he ever found his ring or not :laughing:
 
GKL said:
No beaches close enough for me to hunt, but I am somewhat amazed at that rule, I have no problem with returning something I know is going to the rightful owner, and I would prefer to think all management is trustworthy, but how do you know the management is trustworthy and not just keeping it for themselves or having friends/relatives come by and claim them ?
Click to expand...

You are asking me questions I cannot answer... I set my disc to null on gold and silver.. I am after clad... aren't we all?
 
GKL said:
No beaches close enough for me to hunt, but I am somewhat amazed at that rule, I have no problem with returning something I know is going to the rightful owner, and I would prefer to think all management is trustworthy, but how do you know the management is trustworthy and not just keeping it for themselves or having friends/relatives come by and claim them ?
Click to expand...

Cfmct said:
You are asking me questions I cannot answer...
Click to expand...

:lol: I guess I should have stated it was more of a "rhetorical" question :lol:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
I haven't met the Kob, so I'll have to take your word for it ! :wow:



As crazy as this sounds, it's not unusual or unique. I heard of a couple who was engaged. The guy had given the gal a nice ring. But then a few weeks later, they got into an argument in front of a big municipal fountain thing. She took the ring off, and threw it into the water of the fountain ! (one of those big pool type affairs that's like a glass reflecting pool type thing, 1/2 block big).

The guy, not wanting to be seen wading around in the fountain in broad daylight, came back at night with shorts on & flashlight. So that he could wade into the fountain . I guess some authority saw this weirdo out there in the middle of the night , sloshing around and shining lights. He had to explain the situation to them. Not sure if he ever found his ring or not :laughing:
Click to expand...

I'm kidding around. Hopefully you caught my sarcasm
Kob is a top dog as far as I'm concerned. Lots and lots of good and some incredible detectorists on this forum.
 
GKL said:
:lol: I guess I should have stated it was more of a "rhetorical" question :lol:
Click to expand...


Its ok... I was in a sarcastic mood yesterday.. each town has their own of rules.. one of the main spots I hunt has that stupid rule about anything over $50 it must be turned in... the stuff I find the owners are probably dead... I'm not after a shiny Rolex... I want old stuff and its getting harder and harder to find with the amount of hunters out there today... I did a lot of research this year and I hope it pays off in old gold and old silver coinage..
 
Other forum #1 (the one most of you are talking about): i voluntarily left there after after one of the mods altered the words and message of my text without leaving any notation that he had done so. Made my post say something different. This was the mod that was friends with Kellyco- he is known for rabidly defending anything KC does regardless of actual facts and for indulging in moderating while medicated.

Other forum #2: was banned there for pointing out illegal behavior of a protected business IN A PM. (this was one of those items that Tom calls a 'magic wand'). Have to admit that i was leaving there anyway cause i dont stay where that kind of thing goes on.

I did get my pound of flesh at both places tho. I used other id's there and spent a year or so PM'ing people who were thinking of buying from crooks. I'm sure i cost them a lot of $$$. VPNs and MAC randomizers are great.
 
Cfmct said:
Its ok... I was in a sarcastic mood yesterday.. each town has their own of rules.. one of the main spots I hunt has that stupid rule about anything over $50 it must be turned in... the stuff I find the owners are probably dead... I'm not after a shiny Rolex... I want old stuff and its getting harder and harder to find with the amount of hunters out there today... I did a lot of research this year and I hope it pays off in old gold and old silver coinage..
Click to expand...

No problem :D and I know what you mean about wanting to find old stuff and it not being easy, once old stuff has been dug it's not highly likely more old stuff is going to be dropped to replenish it, unless maybe some kids are showing off their grandfathers old coins from his collection and they drop some in the grass :lol:

I'm starting to realize even moreso it seems most public places have been picked over already of most of the older stuff with maybe few exceptions, and areas still with real potential might be more limited to private property permissions that have yet to be hunted or hunted very little.

Hope your research pays off, I'm going to be trying to get hopefully better private property permissions but still hunting my current areas to keep busy while waiting for new opportunities to open up.
 
KinTN said:
.... Other forum #2: was banned there for pointing out illegal behavior of a protected business IN A PM. (this was one of those items that Tom calls a 'magic wand'). ....
Click to expand...


Wait, are we talking about the "certain other forum" that begins with a "T" ? If so, then : Misery loves company. :laughing: And yes, I hope the certain other "little ears" are reading here :roll:
 
Cfmct said:
... has that stupid rule about anything over $50 it must be turned in.......
Click to expand...

GKL said:
..., unless maybe some kids are showing off their grandfathers old coins from his collection and they drop some in the grass :lol:....
Click to expand...

Hey there Cfmct, well since GKL got me thinking, and since I'm the forum "devil's advocate" kill-joy, I can't resist :

a) The "$50" rule that you speak of, is not unique to just that park. Every single one of the 50 states have Lost & Found laws, as you know. Which set a value of somewhere between $50 to $250 value (some arbitrary #, that is long-since out-dated). To which if you find something, you must turn it in to the police. These are born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s. And serve a good purpose so that no one can "find" the Mountain bike by the park bench. Or "find" the $1k Apple phone on the bus bench. Or "find" the wads of cash that fell out of the back of the Brinks Armored car wreck, etc....

b) And md'rs have frequently felt that coins are NOT included in those laws. Since, of course, for example, a $5 gold piece is (drumroll) only worth $5. Right ? After all, it's the stated value right on the front of the coin, right ? Or the 1916 D dime, in mint condition, is only worth .10c. Right ?

But GKL brings up an interesting point. That, while it seems like "grasping at straws", has actually come up before ! Ie.: Where/what is the criteria ? Instrinsic value ? Face Value ? Collector value ? etc....

There was an interesting case in a town near me, where an nerdy 3rd grader took his dad's coin collection to school for show & tell (without his dad's knowledge or say-so). Then at recess, began to pass out the coins to fellow class-mates to "make friends". These kids, in turn, (who think they're like play money or something) promptly go out and loose them in the sand-box playground area.

Ok, if you find these old coins, do they belong to the Dad ? Or to you ? Are you under any obligation to seek-out-the-owner, since, of course, they are worth well over the value of seated halves, trade dollars, etc... ? If you are the coin-collector dad, do you feel that the coins belong to the lucky md'r ? Or to you ?

Yes, I realize that this doesn't address the 99.9999% of gold coins and seated halves and trade dollars that we md'rs will ever find. But ..... if we're going to "knock ourselves silly following every law", then are we obligated to cross-this-bridge ? I mean, heck, what's the worst that can happen ? You turn the $5 gold into the police. And after 30 days, if no one claims it, you get it back, right ? :laughing:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Hey there Cfmct, well since GKL got me thinking, and since I'm the forum "devil's advocate" kill-joy, I can't resist :

a) The "$50" rule that you speak of, is not unique to just that park. Every single one of the 50 states have Lost & Found laws, as you know. Which set a value of somewhere between $50 to $250 value (some arbitrary #, that is long-since out-dated). To which if you find something, you must turn it in to the police. These are born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s. And serve a good purpose so that no one can "find" the Mountain bike by the park bench. Or "find" the $1k Apple phone on the bus bench. Or "find" the wads of cash that fell out of the back of the Brinks Armored car wreck, etc....

b) And md'rs have frequently felt that coins are NOT included in those laws. Since, of course, for example, a $5 gold piece is (drumroll) only worth $5. Right ? After all, it's the stated value right on the front of the coin, right ? Or the 1916 D dime, in mint condition, is only worth .10c. Right ?

But GKL brings up an interesting point. That, while it seems like "grasping at straws", has actually come up before ! Ie.: Where/what is the criteria ? Instrinsic value ? Face Value ? Collector value ? etc....

There was an interesting case in a town near me, where an nerdy 3rd grader took his dad's coin collection to school for show & tell (without his dad's knowledge or say-so). Then at recess, began to pass out the coins to fellow class-mates to "make friends". These kids, in turn, (who think they're like play money or something) promptly go out and loose them in the sand-box playground area.

Ok, if you find these old coins, do they belong to the Dad ? Or to you ? Are you under any obligation to seek-out-the-owner, since, of course, they are worth well over the value of seated halves, trade dollars, etc... ? If you are the coin-collector dad, do you feel that the coins belong to the lucky md'r ? Or to you ?

Yes, I realize that this doesn't address the 99.9999% of gold coins and seated halves and trade dollars that we md'rs will ever find. But ..... if we're going to "knock ourselves silly following every law", then are we obligated to cross-this-bridge ? I mean, heck, what's the worst that can happen ? You turn the $5 gold into the police. And after 30 days, if no one claims it, you get it back, right ? :laughing:
Click to expand...


I don't turn in jack... ask someone else :lol:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Oh me oh my, what's next ? Digging in park turf ? Torturing baby-kittens ? Oh me oh my ! :laughing:
Click to expand...



Tom... I am not a park hunter... I won't be torturing baby blades of grass... most of the beach spots I hunt people don't swim at them anymore... there is no one for me to report my finds to... the occasional trips to active beaches is rare... again who am I going to report to in the middle of winter? I know I'll save the finds until spring then turn them in... I'll get written up in the local paper as being a good guy :laughing: Yeah right... you can read my sig...


What was this thread about?
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Ok, if you find these old coins, do they belong to the Dad ? Or to you ? Are you under any obligation to seek-out-the-owner, since, of course, they are worth well over the value of seated halves, trade dollars, etc... ? If you are the coin-collector dad, do you feel that the coins belong to the lucky md'r ? Or to you ?

Yes, I realize that this doesn't address the 99.9999% of gold coins and seated halves and trade dollars that we md'rs will ever find. But ..... if we're going to "knock ourselves silly following every law", then are we obligated to cross-this-bridge ? I mean, heck, what's the worst that can happen ? You turn the $5 gold into the police. And after 30 days, if no one claims it, you get it back, right ? :laughing:
Click to expand...

Like you said about that true story "that this doesn't address the 99.9999% of gold coins and seated halves and trade dollars that we md'rs will ever find"

As far as that specific case if you had found a coin that would be highly usual to be in a totlot and read that story and realized that coin was very likely one of the coins from that dad's collection it should be easy for the dad to give you an accurate description and might even have a photo of it, so wouldn't you think that likely would be different from the other "99.9999%" of finds like you said ?
 
Tom_in_CA said:
b) And md'rs have frequently felt that coins are NOT included in those laws. Since, of course, for example, a $5 gold piece is (drumroll) only worth $5. Right ? After all, it's the stated value right on the front of the coin, right?

I haven't given it any additional value since I found out it was a "barbarous relic" and that they were making urinals out of it in the old Soviet Union. I'm convinced it is only a commodity (or commodEity???).

P.S. For those lamenting the loss of old coins to metal detecting, I wonder how many fine finds are well tucked to bed in highway interchanges?
Click to expand...
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Really ? Banned for that ?

This subject comes up @ various times on md'ing forums : Whether we md'rs should track down ring owners (like in cases of class rings, or other identifying marks, like an insurer's serial #, etc...). And although I'm on the side of "return, and take the risk of ingrates", yet I do not see the "pirate's side" of the debate, as being reason to ban someone.

Perhaps I'm not understanding the severity of the exchanges you are referring to. But if it's strictly this age-old debate of pirate vs repatriations, then .... that doesn't seem to be ban-worthy.
Click to expand...

I think you read too quickly, through the Post, Tom. Let me help with some highlights:

Skippy SH13 said:
Yeah, I was banned there, but I didn't know it, because I LEFT the forum before I was banned.I accidentally clicked a link to the forum a couple months later, and a notice popped up. Sort of made me laugh, because I had no intention of coming back.

My reason was solid, by my actions upon leaving were admittedly pretty petty and vindictive. :roll:

The reason I left is that I didn't like being repeatedly attacked by forum members for choosing to KEEP the gold I find (several folks over there actually attacked my parenting morality with "way to teach your son good ethics" and garbage like that. (This in spite of having a history of getting stuff back to owners. Sheesh.) Anyway. I got pissed at the forum members, and noted that the mods should really do something about it. When I left, though, I deleted all my helpful posts over the year or so that i'd been there. It didn't take long, as I developed a little "system" for accessing them and deleting them. I think I spent 45 minutes total. My justification for doing so, was that the forum didn't deserve my content if they couldn't treat me (and I was a "paying" member) with a basic level of respect. I know forums make money by having content searchable online, and people come in. So... I removed it. Figured it was mine, and the system allowed me to edit/modify the content, so I did it. I think I was banned under the rule that I disparaged the mods (like that mattered at that point [since I'd already left]), as there was no rule about editing. I know it created a bit of a disturbance with the forum content having holes in it, as I had several thousand posts.

I found out about a year later, that they changed the policy (I was talking with a forum member friend by e-mail and he let me know), and I guess you can't edit content after a specific amount of time. Bottom line is, I admit what I did was PETTY, but it was exactly what I wanted to do to essentially give the forum a consequence for treating members like garbage. I don't believe they (the entire forum) deserved my content after failing to keep things under basic civility.

Here, I've never had that problem... EVER. People here are amazing, and the mods' rules are a bit different. It is a better fit for me. I love it, and will never go back. Friendly Metal Detecting Forum is "my clubhouse."

Skippy
Click to expand...

Basically, I left because I was annoyed with the forum members, and the perceived lack of moderation regarding personal attacks about keeping gold. I was Banned, because I called out the moderators on this (but more likely, because I removed 100% of my own posts in petty revenge on the site.).

That should clear it up. :)
 
Cfmct said:
Tom... I am not a park hunter... I won't be torturing baby blades of grass... most of the beach spots I hunt people don't swim at them anymore... there is no one for me to report my finds to... the occasional trips to active beaches is rare... again who am I going to report to in the middle of winter? I know I'll save the finds until spring then turn them in... I'll get written up in the local paper as being a good guy :laughing: Yeah right... you can read my sig...


What was this thread about?
Click to expand...

Yeah, i do have some guilt about that, now and then. i try to only dig the grass that is old, and filled with weeds, or is weak and needs to be thinned from the herd. :)
 
GKL said:
It's amazing how some people can have such a lack of basic understanding to not understand how can you give something back if there is no way to tell who it belonged to ?
Click to expand...

EXACTLY. And frankly, that was the crux of my problem. Just because there is an initial set and a letter for a school on a ring, doesn't mean I need to spend 3000 hours trying to track down which high school in the USA it belonged to, then dig up which person. Sometimes, I just put the thing in the newspaper/craigslist, and after 30 days, it's mine. That was the difference of opinion in the other site. I was lambasted for that choice.

Skippy
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Hey there Cfmct, well since GKL got me thinking, and since I'm the forum "devil's advocate" kill-joy, I can't resist :

a) The "$50" rule that you speak of, is not unique to just that park. Every single one of the 50 states have Lost & Found laws, as you know. Which set a value of somewhere between $50 to $250 value (some arbitrary #, that is long-since out-dated). To which if you find something, you must turn it in to the police. These are born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s. And serve a good purpose so that no one can "find" the Mountain bike by the park bench. Or "find" the $1k Apple phone on the bus bench. Or "find" the wads of cash that fell out of the back of the Brinks Armored car wreck, etc....

b) And md'rs have frequently felt that coins are NOT included in those laws. Since, of course, for example, a $5 gold piece is (drumroll) only worth $5. Right ? After all, it's the stated value right on the front of the coin, right ? Or the 1916 D dime, in mint condition, is only worth .10c. Right ?

But GKL brings up an interesting point. That, while it seems like "grasping at straws", has actually come up before ! Ie.: Where/what is the criteria ? Instrinsic value ? Face Value ? Collector value ? etc....

There was an interesting case in a town near me, where an nerdy 3rd grader took his dad's coin collection to school for show & tell (without his dad's knowledge or say-so). Then at recess, began to pass out the coins to fellow class-mates to "make friends". These kids, in turn, (who think they're like play money or something) promptly go out and loose them in the sand-box playground area.

Ok, if you find these old coins, do they belong to the Dad ? Or to you ? Are you under any obligation to seek-out-the-owner, since, of course, they are worth well over the value of seated halves, trade dollars, etc... ? If you are the coin-collector dad, do you feel that the coins belong to the lucky md'r ? Or to you ?

Yes, I realize that this doesn't address the 99.9999% of gold coins and seated halves and trade dollars that we md'rs will ever find. But ..... if we're going to "knock ourselves silly following every law", then are we obligated to cross-this-bridge ? I mean, heck, what's the worst that can happen ? You turn the $5 gold into the police. And after 30 days, if no one claims it, you get it back, right ? :laughing:
Click to expand...

That's a big giant NOPE, Tom. Most lost and found laws do NOT require you to turn in the item to the police. In fact, State Laws, with VERY few exceptions require this. Some municipalities "might" do that, but again, most do not.

As an example, our state laws are written that anything over $100 in value must be published with a basic description (details left out are ok), in a "local periodical" once each week for 2 weeks. A notice must also be sent to the County Clerk of the lost item. After 90 days of no claim, the item is LEGALLY yours.
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title55/t55ch4/sect55-405/

In my state, I tried contacting the County Clerk, and they told me they no longer accept letters of that kind (hadn't for many years, LOL), they "suggested" if I wanted to notify someone I could contact my local police, but it wasn't an obligation, because that's not the way the law was written.

California, on the other hand, DOES:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&sectionNum=2080.1

So, basically, only after people turn it into the PoPo, can you claim your 30%. :)

However, in California, the associated penal code (485) actually does NOT state you have to turn it into the police, only that you had to make a reasonable effort to find the owner. You can legally defend such, if there are no identifiable markings to ID the rightful owner.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&sectionNum=2080.1

Basically, the way the laws read in California is that if the item is identifiable to an owner, you MUST turn it in (such as a wallet with an ID), or make a reasonable effort to return it yourself BEFORE turning it in. If there are no identifiable markings, it's more grey area.

Bottom line is that not every state has lost and found laws that require "turning in the item" to the police. Mine sure doesn't! In fact, when I called both the city and the police, they flat out say they don't deal with such. The city went one step worse and said, "if you turn it in, we'll try to find the owner for you, and if we cannot, we donate it to a thrift store." Yeah... YOU will NEVER see the item again! LOL

Skippy

Edit: Oh yeah, and I don't think legal tender counts for "value" beyond what the face value is. That Seated Dollar is still only worth $1 if you take it to a bank. The Seated half... only $0.50!

If the government places a value on it at only $1, so should you. LOL (EDIT #2: but don't tell anyone. that's the safest way....)

Skippy
 
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