zeemang
Forum Supporter
How about having a huge diver down keep away flag made, like 8 feet long so people could see it at distance?
Dilemma Open to Discussion
- Thread starter ScubaDetective
- Start date
Cherry Picker
Forum Supporter
Yeah we have a messed up legal system. You have every Right to kill to defend yourself, but not the Right to use non-lethal means to ward off someone who could have killed you?
Par for our legal system.
Par for our legal system.
No, I haven't researched it or called a lawyer for an official opinion. The sheriff Lt in charge of marine patrol told me.
It makes sense, if I missed the windshield and hit the captain or caused injury.
We all know, especially myself as former LEO that you can be charged with more things than you would ever dream of.
If the prosecutor could make it stick, that is another story. So far none have made anything stick with me in regards to my underwater adventures.
Most these boaters have tons of money. They probably have lawyers in their pockets also. I am not talking about a little 14' boat almost hitting me. The dinghies yes, but they come off a lot larger boat.
I understand the point of view of hitting a person, and also that large amounts of money are likely in play. I would find out what you could actually be charged with, my guess is there isn't wording in any statute that exactly refers to your situation, where your safety is in danger, and it may just take one or two boats coming back painted to get the message across.
hawgdawg
Forum Supporter
I can really see your dilemma. Your sense of protection for yourself , and the ignorance of others. I've read some good comments from the others here on this issue. But here's where I see the only way to correct this issue,,, is Boater Safety Course. Education of all water buoys , flags , markers , etc. I think around here , over 18 or 21 , all you have to have is a boat to hit the water, with no education. I'm almost 60 years old and the last thing I want to do is more damned schooling , but I've been on the water , and caught myself doing stupid stuff. I've been on the water with a guy that taught me a few boating tricks in a very short period of time , about things I was doing wrong. And because of this , I want to take a boating course thru the coast guard or an equivalent course. Bottom line here is , the way I see it is , play at your own risk. The laws on the water aren't as defined as they are on the roads. Good luck and be safe out there. JMO.
Foragist
Forum Supporter
Paintball gun deterrent/punishment/highlighting? No. Of course not. Also not related to the deadly force for imminent danger argument.
Any booby trap with potential to cause harm or damage to property would be a bad idea too.
But it sounds like you may have a good cause for some new technology, and laws to go with it. Time for an invention. Automated water space violator tagging/tracking/citation system...via satellite? Then, word would get around the marinas. Maybe someday, we can say: "there's an app for that"
I also like the improved "warn and photo" systems suggested.
Any booby trap with potential to cause harm or damage to property would be a bad idea too.
But it sounds like you may have a good cause for some new technology, and laws to go with it. Time for an invention. Automated water space violator tagging/tracking/citation system...via satellite? Then, word would get around the marinas. Maybe someday, we can say: "there's an app for that"
I also like the improved "warn and photo" systems suggested.
Mud-puppy
Forum Supporter
Technically, this is not a good idea...paintballs gel coatings swell up if they get damp/wet and simply explode in the barrel with no down range effect...
hoser
Forum Supporter
Scuba I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't dive any more but I do fish. I used to use planer boards, and I can't tell you how many times I have had the "IDIOTS" who thought it was so cool to run over your boards and then speed off. Jet skis are the worse. I have gone with one guy who saved all his old D & C cell batteries and use them for ammo. In your case I feel you have two options. One is to have some other person go along as a surface guard that could not only warn off the ones who might get too close, but video them at the same time. Then there is the use of a perimeter barrier of old line, small steel cable, and old netting. Unless it is a jet boat, I guarantee the boater will really be hating it when they have to untangle all that line out of their prop. Of course if you are using a float for the flag, I would guess there is enough room for a wrist rocket and a handfull of ball bearings.
scoundrel
six feet under(water)
In Florida, just pointing a paintball gun at a boat with people on it is an aggravated assault charge. 15 years in prison. If you hit somebody, it's an aggravated battery charge. 15 years in prison.
ohiochris
Elite Member
Well , there is a certain amount of risk involved in what you do and you enter the water knowing these potential risks. One of the risks is the disregard others may have for your safety and the law. Much like deer hunting in the woods , its illegal to threaten , endanger , assault , or vandalize another hunter in the woods because he is careless , reckless , dangerous , or somehow puts you in possible harm by what he is doing. If you are driving a car and the car next to you puts you in danger , you cant legally grab a paintball gun and paint his windows with it , and you cant slam into him to voice your disapproval. It seems unfair that you cant legally take certain measures to protect yourself but we do these hobbies or activities knowing and accepting the possible risks involved. The law is basically saying that if we cant accept the risk and cant refrain from potentially escalating a bad situation into a worse one then we need to stay home. Non lethal force can potentially turn lethal , or escalate and involve others not even involved. The law isn't perfect but I think that's what they are trying to avoid.
trailtwister
Junior Member
There are a few things you can do and making yopur own diver flags is one. they sell fabric paint that you can use to print diver on the flag.
They also sell game cameras to hunters that you could attach to your dive flag pole. they take the pictures senceing motion with in so many feet of the camera.
Use those pictures and turn in the boaters who got to close and press charges. You have your rights and they have a responceabilty as a boater to know the law.
Don't allow them to say they didn't know and are sorry either. You want them to have to pay a fine and take time to take a boaters course to learn the law. Their mouth will quickly pass the word to watch for divers flags.
Al
They also sell game cameras to hunters that you could attach to your dive flag pole. they take the pictures senceing motion with in so many feet of the camera.
Use those pictures and turn in the boaters who got to close and press charges. You have your rights and they have a responceabilty as a boater to know the law.
Don't allow them to say they didn't know and are sorry either. You want them to have to pay a fine and take time to take a boaters course to learn the law. Their mouth will quickly pass the word to watch for divers flags.
Al
I don't know if I agree with you on all points. So you think if you are hunting and a drunk hunter starts shooting at you thinking you are a deer, the law doesn't allow you to shoot back and neutralize the threat?
I guess if you have cover and can hide while bullets are flying your way you have a chance. Interesting.
I will say that when they made the laws they probably were not thinking of a person diving in 6 foot of water. They were trying to protect divers going down and coming up from being propeller bait. A diver in 6 foot of water is propeller bait the whole time he dives.
I have taken some suggestions to heart.
1. I am going to get a larger dive flag for my boat that has the silhouette of a diver going down in the middle.
2. I am buying a megaphone to keep on my dive float so I can come up and get the boaters attention without trying to yell.
3. I am going to run a camera by the marine patrol and see what they say. I am expecting them to say that a picture will not prove how close they are. POSSIBLY.
Thank you all for your thoughts. I do not dive on weekends unless I am deeper than 10'. If boaters go over me it doesn't bother me. Just when I am coming up. However I come up slowly and keep turning around to make sure no boats are close.
I have been a safe diver since 1979. I intend on staying that way. As I said, those fast rich drunks on dinghies are the ones that really scare me, along with jet skis.
I am a good shot. I still think a few paint balls on a windshield of a white boat would really get the captains attention. How could I possibly miss a windshield at less than 25' with a paintball rifle? But we all know Jet skis and dinghies do not have windshields.
Sometimes what you might think is the perfect answer has flaws!
ohiochris
Elite Member
You have very valid concerns , I understand the points you are making.
If a hunter starts shooting AT you and its called for , you should be in the clear for shooting back in self defense.....yet still up to a judge in the end. However....if a hunter is just shooting your direction through either ignorance or mistake , there isn't a law or judge that would ever be on your side , you would be charged big time.
BaldAssCat
Elite Member
Is there any law against putting rock marker buoys out? I bet they know what those are and give them plenty of space.
BaldAssCat
Elite Member
Have you used paintball guns before? In my experience no 2 shots hit within 5 feet of each other and that's with dry equipment. Add a little spray off the water from wind and there's no telling whose going to get marked! On a few dewy mornings I was sure I would shoot myself if the wind picked up at all.
