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  #21  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Trix View post
We did get out today but Martin now has an Explorer SE Pro and wanted to learn the Minelab language. Similar to Etrac but VDI is different. I gifted him the Andy Sabisch book (its a must have) and now he has a wealth of knowledge. Mostly clad with around 20 memorials, 5 or 6 rosies a couple quarters and each with a wheat (1917 &1921). Enough for a training day. Nice to just get out. Windy but in the 60s. Maybe more tomorrow. Cheers.
I recall some deep holes but cant say anything came out ftom 10 ".
It was a fun day...thanks for the book, it's like brand new,! You're a generous guy. I was just starting to hear the high tones of dimes and quarters right at the end of the day. Can't wait to get back at it. That's an interesting place we hit, surely real treasures await there. The wind did blow hard, I couldn't hear my pinpointer. Moving to the front was a good move.

Yes, I dug some 10" holes yielding signals pointing toward China. One memorial was deep, go figure. Next time, it'll be something old!
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  #22  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Trix View post
We did get out today but Martin now has an Explorer SE Pro and wanted to learn the Minelab language. Similar to Etrac but VDI is different. I gifted him the Andy Sabisch book (its a must have) and now he has a wealth of knowledge. Mostly clad with around 20 memorials, 5 or 6 rosies a couple quarters and each with a wheat (1917 &1921). Enough for a training day. Nice to just get out. Windy but in the 60s. Maybe more tomorrow. Cheers.
I recall some deep holes but cant say anything came out ftom 10 ".
Thanks for sharing.

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  #23  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin_V3i View post
I'm digging pulltabs at 10 inches in old areas where old silver has been found, yet very rarely at that depth. Many tectors have hunted there and I've put in tons of hours there myself but never pulled a 10" silver there. Some of the Minelab guys have popped some. My Whites can get a simple pulltab, why not a coin at the same depth?

My question is, since I have the ability to detect multiple pulltabs at this depth, is there any reason that a pulltab reads and is found this deep whereas silver nor even clad, gets pulled?

It just seems odd.
So I'll throw my 2cents in here, but this in just an opinion I have based on my experiences.

I don't think detectors respond to all metals the same, while I usually Disc out much of the nickels/tabs/gold 50-75% of the time, I 've noticed with both the V3i & the Etrac, pennies always seem to come back with a more solid identifiable signal than silver at deeper depths. Since I generally discriminate out most the tabs I haven't really compared the intensity of a deep aluminum signal to a deep silver signal, but I too have Dug deep tabs, which is why I get tired and discriminate them out

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  #24  
Old 01-09-2017, 11:06 PM
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I too run a tightly modified screen, the tabs are in there but just barely. Etrac excels at hittting the conductives and playing a sweet "silver warble".I chase the high co's lurking in all those tabs. Its more like wiggling than swinging. But I can only do that for a short time and then I am pressing on. Its those squashed screwcaps that sucker me the most.

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  #25  
Old 01-09-2017, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Trix View post
I too run a tightly modified screen, the tabs are in there but just barely. Etrac excels at hittting the conductives and playing a sweet "silver warble".I chase the high co's lurking in all those tabs. Its more like wiggling than swinging. But I can only do that for a short time and then I am pressing on. Its those squashed screwcaps that sucker me the most.
And purex lids,,zinc can lids,,copper washers.

But thank God,,,,FBS doesn't like bottle caps.

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  #26  
Old 01-10-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Treble View post
So I'll throw my 2cents in here, but this in just an opinion I have based on my experiences.

I don't think detectors respond to all metals the same, while I usually Disc out much of the nickels/tabs/gold 50-75% of the time, I 've noticed with both the V3i & the Etrac, pennies always seem to come back with a more solid identifiable signal than silver at deeper depths. Since I generally discriminate out most the tabs I haven't really compared the intensity of a deep aluminum signal to a deep silver signal, but I too have Dug deep tabs, which is why I get tired and discriminate them out
All detectors working at the same operating frequency will respond to metal the same. How a metal response is based upon conductivity, surface area, thickness, orientation in the ground, temperature, and ... Frequency. It is the laws of physics. No detector can violate them.

What is different is how a detector will receive and process the target information. Receive coil sensitivity, ground balancing, digital signal processing, operating frequency/frequencies - these are what matters to the person using the detector. It takes all of that complicated physics and math and turns it into something we can readily understand. Some detectors do it much better than others.

Statistically, if you find deep silver, it will most likely be a dime. Taking that into consideration the penny will return a stronger signal because the penny has a bigger surface area and thickness. The conductivity of both alloys are not too different. At depth, you will have a better chance of getting a good signal from the target that has the greatest surface area (unless on edge of course). You don't have too much trouble finding those 6 foot deep sewer pipes, do you? (granted, that is also in part because they contain iron)

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  #27  
Old 01-10-2017, 01:35 PM
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Ok, I keep hearing a lot about high conductors and low conductors. I just looked up metal conductivity and it looks like the top four are (in order of best to worst): silver, copper, gold, aluminum. My question is why can't a gold ring be differentiated from an old beaver tail pull tab ring? I'm pretty new to this and trying to understand the physics of how this all works.

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  #28  
Old 01-10-2017, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NCtoad View post
Ok, I keep hearing a lot about high conductors and low conductors. I just looked up metal conductivity and it looks like the top four are (in order of best to worst): silver, copper, gold, aluminum. My question is why can't a gold ring be differentiated from an old beaver tail pull tab ring? I'm pretty new to this and trying to understand the physics of how this all works.
Gold used in jewelry is generally alloyed. Conductivity decreases a lot from 24k to 18k to 14k.

24k gold will run up high, since it is a really good conductor. 14k gold is only 59% gold and is often debases with things such as nickle, cadmium, lead, iron, zinc, tin, etc. All of these metals have poor conductivity and when added to the gold it greatly reduce the gold's conductivity. The same thing happens with silver and copper.

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  #29  
Old 01-10-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BottleCapKing View post
Gold used in jewelry is generally alloyed. Conductivity decreases a lot from 24k to 18k to 14k.

24k gold will run up high, since it is a really good conductor. 14k gold is only 59% gold and is often debases with things such as nickle, cadmium, lead, iron, zinc, tin, etc. All of these metals have poor conductivity and when added to the gold it greatly reduce the gold's conductivity. The same thing happens with silver and copper.
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks! Too bad everything can't be 24k

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  #30  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BottleCapKing View post
All detectors working at the same operating frequency will respond to metal the same. How a metal response is based upon conductivity, surface area, thickness, orientation in the ground, temperature, and ... Frequency. It is the laws of physics. No detector can violate them.

What is different is how a detector will receive and process the target information. Receive coil sensitivity, ground balancing, digital signal processing, operating frequency/frequencies - these are what matters to the person using the detector. It takes all of that complicated physics and math and turns it into something we can readily understand. Some detectors do it much better than others.

Statistically, if you find deep silver, it will most likely be a dime. Taking that into consideration the penny will return a stronger signal because the penny has a bigger surface area and thickness. The conductivity of both alloys are not too different. At depth, you will have a better chance of getting a good signal from the target that has the greatest surface area (unless on edge of course). You don't have too much trouble finding those 6 foot deep sewer pipes, do you? (granted, that is also in part because they contain iron)
OK, not sure what you mean that all detectors shooting the same frequency respond the same. I would only agree if the processors were the same, but this isn't what I was talking about.

Second paragraph,, I'm good with.

As far as the last, you may have the point. Just would have thought the size of the penny to dime wouldn't have increased the intensity that greatly. So if I machined a penny to the exact size of a dime would you think they would give the same tone and VDI?

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  #31  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:06 PM
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One odd fact I left out in my original post is that these deep pulltabs read as high tones, not low like nickels and gold. They were whole tabs, not just the rings, plus one was a large tab not used on soda cans. Just another twist in the question. The large one was only the ring though.
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  #32  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:09 PM
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I feel your pain!

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  #33  
Old 01-11-2017, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by fuzzytexan View post
I feel your pain!

That has got to be the deepest clad dime I've ever seen. There are just way to many variables in this hobby, that's what makes it so interesting.

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  #34  
Old 01-11-2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View post
That has got to be the deepest clad dime I've ever seen. There are just way to many variables in this hobby, that's what makes it so interesting.

Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk


Yeah this was at one of my hunted out parks. I got a whisper signal but solid sound. I'm immediate thinking Silver. I knew it was deep so it I dig a clean deep plug and literately pulled off the bottom of this hole. I was just sitting there thinking, seriously lol.

This was one of my deeper coins but we had a good rain and in our sandy loom soil after a rain the targets get deeper. I think it has to do with the halo effect on the targets in the ground. Just a theory.

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  #35  
Old 01-11-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris R View post
That has got to be the deepest clad dime I've ever seen. There are just way to many variables in this hobby, that's what makes it so interesting.

Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk
How many times did it fall deeper in the plug as he dug out dirt though... that's the question I always ask when someone finds a 16 inch dime....lol

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  #36  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by NectarDetector View post
How many times did it fall deeper in the plug as he dug out dirt though... that's the question I always ask when someone finds a 16 inch dime....lol


LOL come on! I was going for a record!

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  #37  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by fuzzytexan View post
I feel your pain!

Stand by for a video response from Calabash Digger, that beats his deep quarter by a margin lol
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  #38  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Treble View post
OK, not sure what you mean that all detectors shooting the same frequency respond the same. I would only agree if the processors were the same, but this isn't what I was talking about.

Second paragraph,, I'm good with.

As far as the last, you may have the point. Just would have thought the size of the penny to dime wouldn't have increased the intensity that greatly. So if I machined a penny to the exact size of a dime would you think they would give the same tone and VDI?
What I mean by all detectors using the same frequency is that the same target will respond the same way, to the same frequency for each of those detectors (assuming also that the current used to generate the transmit field is identical across the board (amplitude, frequency, phase offset). The laws of physics govern this. It cannot be designed nor manufactured around. If you disagree with this, take it up with Faraday, Maxwell, Ampere, and Lenz. Read: The TARGETS respond the same. What the detectors do with the Induced response field is a different story all together. That is where all the processing goodness comes into play and sets detectors apart from one another.

As far as your penny goes, probably not. The penny already has a VDI less than the clad dime. If it is a brass penny, it will have a VDI of 70-75 on my V3i. The Bronze penny will have a VDI from 58-69 depending upon wear. If you shave the penny down, it will likely further decrease the VDI of the penny.

The reason why a deep penny will be easier to identify than a deep dime is that the penny is inducing a stronger response field. While it is not as conductive, it has a bigger surface area and thickness. Stronger induced field equals more "depth" and ease of identification. Strength of the induced field is important because the strength of a magnetic field is inversely proportional to distance^3 - ie, field strength falls down really fast the further away from target you get. If you shave the penny down, you are going to decrease both the vdi and the strength of the induced field.

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  #39  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ghound View post
Stand by for a video response from Calabash Digger, that beats his deep quarter by a margin lol


Gonna rent a back hoe next time.

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  #40  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by fuzzytexan View post
LOL come on! I was going for a record!

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