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  #1  
Old 12-31-2016, 07:57 PM
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Martin_V3i Martin_V3i is offline
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Default Pulltabs @ 10 Inches

I'm digging pulltabs at 10 inches in old areas where old silver has been found, yet very rarely at that depth. Many tectors have hunted there and I've put in tons of hours there myself but never pulled a 10" silver there. Some of the Minelab guys have popped some. My Whites can get a simple pulltab, why not a coin at the same depth?

My question is, since I have the ability to detect multiple pulltabs at this depth, is there any reason that a pulltab reads and is found this deep whereas silver nor even clad, gets pulled?

It just seems odd.
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2016, 08:01 PM
Marjam42 Marjam42 is offline
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Sounds like the soil has been turned over to me. If you are getting silver shallower than that, that's what I would think it is.

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Old 12-31-2016, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Marjam42 View post
Sounds like the soil has been turned over to me. If you are getting silver shallower than that, that's what I would think it is.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
+1 sounds like there may have been dirt moved around by big machinery.

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  #4  
Old 12-31-2016, 08:15 PM
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Clad should have logically been turned over along with the pulltabs though, and silver has been found that deep by a few, just not by my machine. Pulltabs seem to light right up. I'd love to find even Memorials or a clad quarter at 10 like these pulltabs produce. A tiny rusty nail is understandable with the halo. This is nagging at me.
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Old 12-31-2016, 08:49 PM
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thats interesting Ive dug 9 inch tabs with my machine and silvers that deep too . I suggest you bury a silver coin and pull tab at 10 inchs and run your machine over it and see what happens.

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Old 12-31-2016, 09:07 PM
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Well Martin,,,
Be honest,,just how many 10" deep dimes have you dug with your White V3i detector???

How are the mineral levels on the site???

Minelabs definitely handle EMI better than V3i,, based on my experiences.

Oh,,and these 10" pull tabs you are digging,,how do they ID???

That multi freq on Minelab,,,,a killer for depth on average vs more typical vlfs.

What denomination silver coins were the ML folks a digging,,,dimes I'll bet.

And wonder what the coin orientation is of the silver the ML folks dig?? On edge or partially,,,again multi freq better on IMO.

The program(s) in those FBS/fbs2 love disc shape and higher conductor.

Wonder how many 10" deep pull tabs the ML folks have dug??
I'll guess,,none!!

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  #7  
Old 12-31-2016, 09:19 PM
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Shorter question, removing the machine variance between brands.

"If any machine, in my case today, a Whites M6, detects a pulltab with "dig-able" confidence level Vdi for 10 inches, should not a clad coin and silver coins read equally as well?" If no, then why not?
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  #8  
Old 12-31-2016, 09:28 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is online now
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Originally Posted by Martin_V3i View post
Shorter question, removing the machine variance between brands.

"If any machine, in my case today, a Whites M6, detects a pulltab with "dig-able" confidence level Vdi for 10 inches, should not a clad coin and silver coins read equally as well?" If no, then why not?
Okay,,,I am a Deus user,,,have other detectors as well.

Deus,,loves round,,,even ferrous material that are round.
On conical bullets not so good.

It evidently is in the program.

Pull tab not a disc shape,,,but it does have a hole in it,,,,should make it easier on average for a typical Vlf detector to detect.

Just like a gold ring,,,,break the band and slightly separate,,,your detector likely to not alert on as deep.

Some detectors for example,,,and this based purely on my experiences (other users of same detector evidently concur),,,Deus loves round,,,doesn't like as much conical,,nonferrous with rough and or strange shapes.

Nokta FORS relic detector and Makro Racer 1 and 2 seem to like the out of round and more jagged shaped targets better.

And like I said FBS/FBS2 loves disc shaped/ round.

It is just not about depth (detectable) and target being ferrous or nonferrous,,or even size overall.

The programs written,,,key on some things,,,to set the detector off.
Now extra depth can actually aggravate this.

What does all this really mean.

We don't know for sure what our coils are swept over.
Is their information exchange happening (physics) over nonferrous targets,,,,yet the detector don't get set off tonally?? Yep

Btw Martin,,,what freq are you using to get to the 10" pull tabs??

OH,,here is the person you need to talk to,,,Silver Ranger,,,seems they have things nailed down.
http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/...i-depth-record

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Last edited by tnsharpshooter; 12-31-2016 at 10:19 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-31-2016, 10:23 PM
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Perhaps other hunters are (gasp) cherry picking and passing tabs ? So you're going behind them and .... go figure .... digging tabs they're leaving behind. Just a thought.

There's lots of turf where I refuse to be "a hero" and will look just for old silver, wheaties, and high conductors. If I'm hot and heavy to find a gold ring, I'll simply go to the beach. Not strip mine junky turf. But that's just me.
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  #10  
Old 01-01-2017, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Okay,,,I am a Deus user,,,have other detectors as well.

Deus,,loves round,,,even ferrous material that are round.
On conical bullets not so good.

It evidently is in the program.

Pull tab not a disc shape,,,but it does have a hole in it,,,,should make it easier on average for a typical Vlf detector to detect.

Just like a gold ring,,,,break the band and slightly separate,,,your detector likely to not alert on as deep.

Some detectors for example,,,and this based purely on my experiences (other users of same detector evidently concur),,,Deus loves round,,,doesn't like as much conical,,nonferrous with rough and or strange shapes.

Nokta FORS relic detector and Makro Racer 1 and 2 seem to like the out of round and more jagged shaped targets better.

And like I said FBS/FBS2 loves disc shaped/ round.

It is just not about depth (detectable) and target being ferrous or nonferrous,,or even size overall.

The programs written,,,key on some things,,,to set the detector off.
Now extra depth can actually aggravate this.

What does all this really mean.

We don't know for sure what our coils are swept over.
Is their information exchange happening (physics) over nonferrous targets,,,,yet the detector don't get set off tonally?? Yep

Btw Martin,,,what freq are you using to get to the 10" pull tabs??

OH,,here is the person you need to talk to,,,Silver Ranger,,,seems they have things nailed down.
http://forums.whiteselectronics.com/...i-depth-record
Btw Martin,,,what freq are you using to get to the 10" pull tabs??


It was my recently pruchased M6 running 14khz today, using an 8x6 SEF. The V3i in 3-frequency has gotten tabs deep too. I was proud and kinda surprised of the M6's maden voyage today. It was an unplanned trip with it, loaded up the wrong detector in a hurried hunt. Go figure.
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  #11  
Old 01-01-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin_V3i View post
Btw Martin,,,what freq are you using to get to the 10" pull tabs??


It was my recently pruchased M6 running 14khz today, using an 8x6 SEF. The V3i in 3-frequency has gotten tabs deep too. I was proud and kinda surprised of the M6's maden voyage today. It was an unplanned trip with it, loaded up the wrong detector in a hurried hunt. Go figure.
I guess if you could team up with Minelab runner,,,and let them find a deep high conductor,,,then maybe try to get with your detector,,,,might tell you something.

But this IMO,,,don't paint the whole true pic,,,,,much easier once a person knows where target is supposedly vs finding on their own.

One reason I hate you tube video comparisons of detectors.

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Old 01-01-2017, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Perhaps other hunters are (gasp) cherry picking and passing tabs ? So you're going behind them and .... go figure .... digging tabs they're leaving behind. Just a thought.

There's lots of turf where I refuse to be "a hero" and will look just for old silver, wheaties, and high conductors. If I'm hot and heavy to find a gold ring, I'll simply go to the beach. Not strip mine junky turf. But that's just me.

I agree with this... The Etrac/CTX can tell the difference if its a coin or tab accurately at depth. They are just cherry picking the coins. I do that with pennies most of the time based on location. I leave the zincs and copper (pre 1982) pennies and cherry pick the wheats and Indians. I know people must come in behind me and think they are on virgin ground when they find multiple (pre 1982) pennies at 3-5" when actually they were left there on purpose.
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  #13  
Old 01-01-2017, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by masterjedi View post
I agree with this... The Etrac/CTX can tell the difference if its a coin or tab accurately at depth. They are just cherry picking the coins. I do that with pennies most of the time based on location. I leave the zincs and copper (pre 1982) pennies and cherry pick the wheats and Indians. I know people must come in behind me and think they are on virgin ground when they find multiple (pre 1982) pennies at 3-5" when actually they were left there on purpose.
bingo. Good post. It's like playing black-jack in Las Vegas: Sometimes your odds are better , when you have 20 in your hand, to "hold". Even though it's *possible* that the next care MIGHT be a 1 card. Because odds are .... it's not. So too in md'ing are we always playing the odds. And knowing that you only have so much life and so much time, and can only dig so many holes in a given day ..... sometimes you're better off cherry picking.

I had this debate with an md'r .... as we prepared to hit an old turfed park in San Francisco once. He BRISTLED at the thought of passing clad, since .... "you never know if an old coin might happen to be a shallow fluke". And he BRISTLED at the notion of passing low shallow conductors (tabs and foil), d/t "you might miss a gold ring or a nickel". Blah blah blah.

Well at the end of the day, I had 8 or 10 oldies (wheaties and a silver or two), perhaps 3 clad, and hardly any junk. He had an apron full of junk, 8 or 10 clad, and perhaps a single wheatie.

See ? In his mind's eyes, he's getting the "best of both worlds" by "digging all". Ie.: the old AND the new AND gold rings. But it never works out like that.
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Old 01-02-2017, 06:31 PM
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Hiya Martin, I can help you out in the Etrac department. I cant guarantee silver but I have some productive areas we can hit. You have seen my swing, I sweep pretty fast looking for those cherries left behind by the previous poster. Yesterday I was at Whiterock testing my new coil...the 6x8SEF. That makes the comparison fairly even. That coil will separate VERY WELL.
I pulled a rosie from 8" between two pulltabs in about a 4 inch area. That tells me I have no doubt missed many a coin by rushing through "cherry picking". Send me a pm and we can set up a hunt .
Cheers and Happy New Year!

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Old 01-02-2017, 07:43 PM
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Default My AT Pro finds coins at 10" inches.

I would say change up your coils and settings. Some times you can overload a coil and only get 5 inch depth. I know it sounds wrong, but I find deeper stuff at lower settings with my F75. The AT Pro will hit at 10 Inches all day with a 5x8 coil. Pull tabs would definitely hit at that depth. I always wonder what I am missing, and usually find stuff if the weather changes. Your v3i is no slouch and Im sure you know how to use it. I just suggest trying to fool your machine some days. As mentioned beofre you could be dealing with all sorts of ground disturbances.

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Old 01-03-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
And wonder what the coin orientation is of the silver the ML folks dig?? On edge or partially,,,again multi freq better on IMO.
I doubt anyone is pulling a dime on edge at 10". The only likely way it can be found is if there is another target near it, above it, has an unusually large/strong halo, or if you have the most sensitive receive coil in the world.

A coin on edge at that depth is essentially invisible. Won't matter if you are using a 3030 or a V3i. Even at 7", an on edge coin is difficult to hear unless you are running in all metal (non-motion) mode, and even then, it is just a slight tick in the AM threshold.

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Old 01-03-2017, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Trix View post
Hiya Martin, I can help you out in the Etrac department. I cant guarantee silver but I have some productive areas we can hit. You have seen my swing, I sweep pretty fast looking for those cherries left behind by the previous poster. Yesterday I was at Whiterock testing my new coil...the 6x8SEF. That makes the comparison fairly even. That coil will separate VERY WELL.
I pulled a rosie from 8" between two pulltabs in about a 4 inch area. That tells me I have no doubt missed many a coin by rushing through "cherry picking". Send me a pm and we can set up a hunt .
Cheers and Happy New Year!
Thanks TRIX! I will PM you.
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Old 01-03-2017, 12:55 PM
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Martin,
Keep us posted on your results alongside your new it looks like hunting buddy.

My brother uses a V3i,,he could use some help too.
I will pass along your findings to him.

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Old 01-03-2017, 02:28 PM
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I wont worry about digging deep into hard ground since you carry a hip mounted backhoe..😄

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Old 01-09-2017, 08:17 PM
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We did get out today but Martin now has an Explorer SE Pro and wanted to learn the Minelab language. Similar to Etrac but VDI is different. I gifted him the Andy Sabisch book (its a must have) and now he has a wealth of knowledge. Mostly clad with around 20 memorials, 5 or 6 rosies a couple quarters and each with a wheat (1917 &1921). Enough for a training day. Nice to just get out. Windy but in the 60s. Maybe more tomorrow. Cheers.
I recall some deep holes but cant say anything came out ftom 10 ".

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