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  #21  
Old 08-06-2022, 09:13 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Folks can buy what they want.
What folks canít say here is ole Sharpshooter didnít tell you so. If one is disappointed later on with their purchase based on certain performance I have alluded to.

You know how many hours I spend looking at VLF detectors? Loads.
And my info is indeed free.
Plus I show the evidence via video.
Plus I walk folks though the scenario and detector settings.
All in the open.

Does anyone here expect a manufacturer to admit weakness with their equipment? As it compares to the competition. Yeah. That ainít happening. Iím afraid.

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  #22  
Old 08-06-2022, 09:22 AM
AccurateCalls AccurateCalls is offline
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
But I did have a trial.
You need more than 1 or 2...

Okay, let me sketch out an example experiment to show you the difference. Let's say you wanted to know which detector performs better in modern trash.

Gather 100 various piece of trash, bottle caps, foil, pulltabs, juice boxes, any example of modern trash, even better if directly sourced from a park. Now gather 20 different targets, coins, jewelry, etc.

Now test each of the 20 targets against each 100 pieces of trash, at 10 different target configuration distances and record the results.

20,000 trials later you might have a meaningful data that could show how a detector performs across a variety of targets against a variety of pieces of trash at a variety of separation distances. Whichever detector performs better across that wide variety of configurations of modern trash may be the better detector in modern trash. (Note, I still only say may)

Yes, that is a lot of trials and a lot of time. Science takes time.

Generally speaking, if you can do your "experiment" in a 10 minute Youtube video, you aren't actually performing a test / experiment, but rather some sort of demonstration (from which you should draw no conclusions).
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  #23  
Old 08-06-2022, 09:28 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by AccurateCalls View post
You need more than 1 or 2...

Okay, let me sketch out an example experiment to show you the difference. Let's say you wanted to know which detector performs better in modern trash.

Gather 100 various piece of trash, bottle caps, foil, pulltabs, juice boxes, any example of modern trash, even better if directly sourced from a park. Now gather 20 different targets, coins, jewelry, etc.

Now test each of the 20 targets against each 100 pieces of trash, at 10 different target configuration distances and record the results.

20,000 trials later you might have a meaningful data that could show how a detector performs across a variety of targets against a variety of pieces of trash at a variety of separation distances. Whichever detector performs better across that wide variety of configurations of modern trash may be the better detector in modern trash. (Note, I still only say may)

Yes, that is a lot of trials and a lot of time. Science takes time.

Generally speaking, if you can do your "experiment" in a 10 minute Youtube video, you aren't actually performing a test / experiment, but rather some sort of demonstration (from which you should draw no conclusions).
Letís use your logic.
Ok.
I go outside when it is raining. Without umbrella or other protective thingy.
And I get wet. So I deduced from my first outing in the rain I get wet.

By your logic I should have to go out in the rain for how many times before I can deuce when I go outside when it is raining I get wet.

Do I need to do that 20,000 times to prove?

You are laughable.

Yeah these keyboard types. Gotta watch those. Put little stock in.

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Pinpointers -- Nokta Makro Pulse dive, Garrett Propointer, Garrett Pro Pointer AT, White's TRX, Makro, Xp MI-6 pinpointer, remote travels use Can am Defender Hd10Xt side by side

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  #24  
Old 08-06-2022, 09:31 AM
AccurateCalls AccurateCalls is offline
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Letís use your logic.
Ok.
I go outside when it is raining. Without umbrella or other protective thingy.
And I get wet. So I deduced from my first outing in the rain I get wet.

By your logic I should have to go out in the rain for how many times before I can deuce when I go outside when it is raining I get wet.

Do I need to do that 20,000 times to prove?

You are laughable.

Yeah these keyboard types. Gotta watch those. Put little stock in.
Are you really trying to attack the idea that an experiment should have multiple trials?
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  #25  
Old 08-06-2022, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Folks can buy what they want.
What folks canít say here is ole Sharpshooter didnít tell you so. If one is disappointed later on with their purchase based on certain performance I have alluded to.

You know how many hours I spend looking at VLF detectors? Loads.
And my info is indeed free.
Plus I show the evidence via video.
Plus I walk folks though the scenario and detector settings.
All in the open.

Does anyone here expect a manufacturer to admit weakness with their equipment? As it compares to the competition. Yeah. That ainít happening. Iím afraid.
TN , Makro / Nokta will resolve this issue with a update,we all know that.. And to be fair here the Deus 2 and the Equinox were both released prematurely and both also suffered performance wise from unforeseen circumstances,and were made right with updates... Not that big of a deal imo ,and if your counting machines out because things need tweaked in a update then you should of counted your Deus 2 out a week after you got it,cause it went through how many updates to get it right?.This is getting ridiculous
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  #26  
Old 08-06-2022, 09:48 AM
Digalicious Digalicious is offline
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Originally Posted by tnsharpshooter View post
Letís use your logic.
Ok.
I go outside when it is raining. Without umbrella or other protective thingy.
And I get wet. So I deduced from my first outing in the rain I get wet.

By your logic I should have to go out in the rain for how many times before I can deuce when I go outside when it is raining I get wet.

Do I need to do that 20,000 times to prove?
Worst analogy ever.

You only have 2 easily identified variables. That is, "Is it raining or not?", and, "Am I using an umbrella or not?".

With detectors, there are a multitude of variables, and to make it more complex, one variable can affect another. Then of course, is bias.

Last edited by Digalicious; 08-06-2022 at 10:42 AM.
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  #27  
Old 08-06-2022, 10:54 AM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by AccurateCalls View post
Are you really trying to attack the idea that an experiment should have multiple trials?
I have done multiple trials.
I didnít do one test or do one head to head and come up with my conclusion.
Multiple multiple.
Slot machine keeps coming up cherries- meaning EQX Park 1 has advantage.

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Pinpointers -- Nokta Makro Pulse dive, Garrett Propointer, Garrett Pro Pointer AT, White's TRX, Makro, Xp MI-6 pinpointer, remote travels use Can am Defender Hd10Xt side by side

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  #28  
Old 08-06-2022, 10:56 AM
jmaclen jmaclen is online now
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Earlier in this topic I recommended the Legend over the Equinox 600. I know about this low conductor adjacent to high conductor "issue" that is being discussed here. I have seen its effects in testing and on hunts. It is important and I hope Nokta Makro can make it a little better in their next Legend update, just like I hope they can improve sensitivity, consistency and stability over more of their 11" DD coil's surface so that at least the center spine of the coil will respond to a target with more stability and won't require a near perfect level swing over the target.

This aluminum target adjacent to a high conductor deficiency in the Legend is real. Replicating this test is super easy to do. You can use any US dime and any aluminum target you want to use whether it is bigger or smaller than the dime. At some point depending on your aluminum targets surface size and distance from the dime, the dime will become masked using M1 no matter what setting you use for recovery speed and for the iron filter. You can make the test as realistic as you want. Similar behavior happens with the Equinox when using the 2 modes just like it does using the M2 setting on the Legend. The masking happens a lot stronger with the Legend at this point from my experience. Does that make the Legend a poor performer on mid to high conductive coin and jewelry targets in thick modern aluminum trash. Not for me. My Legend is 2/3rds paid for just from the higher conductive US clad and silver coin and jewelry finds that I have made with it since getting mine in mid March. My Equinox 800s have been fully paid for from the higher conductive clad, silver coins and silver jewelry that I have found with it even using Park 2 and Field 2 in really modern aluminum trashed parks despite not doing real well in similar same plane tests.......

I still recommend the Legend over the Equinox 600. I doubt the Equinox 600 will receive any performance based software updates in the future and its structural deficiencies have been well documented. I am confident that the Legend will receive multiple updates that will continue to improve its performance. There have been no widespread reports of Legends leaking and coil ears breaking. There have been update, external speaker and power management problem reports. I am confident that the Nokta Makro software/design engineers know about this issue with M1 low/high conductor masking and are working on an improvement.

You guys are attacking the messengers here. The more you attack them the more they will make videos about this low conductor masking high conductor issue and the whole vicious cycle will start up all over again.

I have two Equinox 800s and a Legend. What tnsharpshooter is showing in this simple test is true no matter how much anybody wants to refute it, deny it, ignore it or deflect blame back on the tester.

You can use a modern oval pull tab, older rectangular pull tab, just a beaver tail off of a ring pull, an aluminum candy wrapper, you pick. If that aluminum target is roughly the same size or bigger than the dime it will mask the dime if the dime is roughly an inch away. If you have an Equinox it will very likely out perform the Legend on the same target scenario using default Park 1 settings.......

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Last edited by jmaclen; 08-06-2022 at 11:11 AM.
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  #29  
Old 08-06-2022, 11:06 AM
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woodbutcher woodbutcher is offline
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Originally Posted by jmaclen View post
Earlier in this topic I recommended the Legend over the Equinox 600. I know about this low conductor adjacent to high conductor "issue" that is being discussed here. I have seen its effects in testing and on hunts. It is important and I hope Nokta Makro can make it a little better in their next Legend update, just like I hope they can improve sensitivity, consistency and stability over more of their 11" DD coil's surface so that at least the center spine of the coil will respond to a target with more stability and won't require a near perfect level swing over the target.

This aluminum target adjacent to a high conductor deficiency in the Legend is real. Replicating this test is super easy to do. You can use any US dime and any aluminum target you want to use whether it is bigger or smaller than the dime. At some point depending on your aluminum targets surface size and distance from the dime, the dime will become masked using M1 no matter what setting you use for recovery speed and for the iron filter. You can make the test as realistic as you want. Similar behavior happens with the Equinox when using the 2 modes just like it does using the M2 setting on the Legend. The masking happens a lot stronger with the Legend at this point from my experience. Does that make the Legend a poor performer on mid to high conductive coin and jewelry targets in thick modern aluminum trash. Not for me. My Legend is 2/3rds paid for just from the higher conductive US clad and silver coin and jewelry finds that I have made with it since getting mine in mid March. My Equinox 800s have been fully paid for from the higher conductive clad, silver coins and silver jewelry that I have found with it even using Park 2 and Field 2 in really modern aluminum trashed parks despite not doing real well in similar same plane tests.......

I still recommend the Legend over the Equinox 600. I doubt the Equinox 600 will receive any performance based software updates in the future and its structural deficiencies have been well documented. I am confident that the Legend will receive multiple updates that will continue to improve its performance. There have been no widespread reports of Legends leaking and coil ears breaking. There have been update, external speaker and power management problem reports. I am confident that the Nokta Makro software/design engineers know about this issue with M1 low/high conductor masking and are working on an improvement.

You guys are attacking the messengers here. The more you attack them the more they will make videos about this low conductor masking high conductor issue and the whole vicious cycle will start up all over again.

I have two Equinox 800s and a Legend. What tnsharpshooter is showing in this simple test is true no matter how much anybody wants to refute it, deny it, ignore it or deflect blame back on the tester.
The masking of a high conductor from the foil is definitely true. And I give TN all the credit for showing that to not only me,but everyone including nokta.
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  #30  
Old 08-06-2022, 12:58 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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I did multiple videos on this topic with Legend for only one reason. To give folks some practical situations to see detector behavior. Not just one scenario and then start posting about this behavior.

Now I can say this.
Legend as far as the negative seen with lower conductors masking (giving lower ID than actual of desired target) both high and low conductors. Legend does better on say gold ring. Vs say nickel. Why? I canít say for sure. Other than the fact ring is ring shaped vs disc shaped like a coin. Granted Legend in doing test with gold rings still is acting subpar (just not as subpar) to Eqx using park 1.

Cheers.

My info I post on this forum is free for the taking. Free to the manufacturer too. As well as the videos I post on you tube.
Could these help manufacturer? Maybe.

To add here.
I see some making reference to paystreak as far as his success with Legend. Well, based on about all I have seen with his videos. He is basically doing beep and dig detecting. In doing so how would he or anyone else for that matter realize by doing the way Legend is as far as the masking going on with lower conductors like foil. Remember many desirable targets will still give audio on Legend with say foil masking happening to a degree. Yet ID can be in error -sometimes more, sometimes less).

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  #31  
Old 08-06-2022, 01:08 PM
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If a guy was a gold hunter ,this glitch would be perfect for avoiding coins close to gold rings .lol
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  #32  
Old 08-06-2022, 05:23 PM
tnsharpshooter tnsharpshooter is offline
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Can someone confirm what I am seeing here in this video. With their Legend.
See this link post #277.
https://metaldetectingforum.com/show...43#post3412643

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Pinpointers -- Nokta Makro Pulse dive, Garrett Propointer, Garrett Pro Pointer AT, White's TRX, Makro, Xp MI-6 pinpointer, remote travels use Can am Defender Hd10Xt side by side

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