Big Boys Hobbies

Historic bridges and the waterways that run under them

SoKyHunter

SoKyHunter

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
240
Location
Kentucky
Does anyone know the legality of hunting a waterway that runs under a marked historic site?

Here in my hometown, there's a bridge that was a crucial point during the civil war. Originally a wooden bridge built in 1839, the confederate soldiers torched it before retreating to Nashville. Since then, it has been rebuilt four times, and the original support pylons still stand. The bridge itself is a marked site, but the river running under is dam fed. Right now, the spillway is closed, and the river is low enough to wade across. Does anyone know if I could legally hunt the river itself, or would that be considered part of the protected site?
 
Most waterways are open to the public up to the high water mark. Even streams going through private property. They just have to be navigable. That doesn't mean the whole length nor how small the boat is. Or if the water is high or dry. It's a pretty open law. At least it is in Missouri. My guess is that the Bridge alone is Historic and the water under it is not. But you'll have to do your own investigation. Let us know?
 
hillbillydigger said:
Not sure about there but it's illegal to hunt the river in TN because TVA arrests people who do it.
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There has to more to that story, TVA does not own any rivers, they are a power company, if you crossed their land to get to the river, well, there is your issue...

<*)))>{
 
You could ask Aquachigger (search youtube). He's done the most river detecting of anyone I have ever heard of. He may have some advice at least on who to talk to.
 
Ice Scratcher said:
There has to more to that story, TVA does not own any rivers, they are a power company, if you crossed their land to get to the river, well, there is your issue...

<*)))>{
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Sorry bud but TVA does own the waterways here in East TN. They used to sell permits to detect "their" land but have now banned detecting. Certain spots in town are now closed to fishing by law of TVA that were formally opened. One of my buddies unwittingly went fishing for striper at one of his fave spots only to be approached by TVA officer who told him to leave now this is a friendly warning or he would be fined $250 and if he was ever caught there again he would be fined. Now that they appointed an archeologist busybody old woman as one of their heads they have started arresting people for picking up rocks or arrowheads along the shoreline. There is one place here they said if you walk on the supposedly public land within 15 minutes there will be an officer there (because its site of Indian village). Even in the non-TVA owned private water beaches the guys in our club can only legally detect up to 5 feet out from shore or else face arrest. Guys used to scuba dive in the river channels and get gold nuggets until TVA started arresting people. This is a huge deal here for TN detectorists because many Civil War sites are owned by TVA.
 
hillbillydigger said:
Sorry bud but TVA does own the waterways here in East TN. They used to sell permits to detect "their" land but have now banned detecting. Certain spots in town are now closed to fishing by law of TVA that were formally opened. One of my buddies unwittingly went fishing for striper at one of his fave spots only to be approached by TVA officer who told him to leave now this is a friendly warning or he would be fined $250 and if he was ever caught there again he would be fined. Now that they appointed an archeologist busybody old woman as one of their heads they have started arresting people for picking up rocks or arrowheads along the shoreline. There is one place here they said if you walk on the supposedly public land within 15 minutes there will be an officer there (because its site of Indian village). Even in the non-TVA owned private water beaches the guys in our club can only legally detect up to 5 feet out from shore or else face arrest. Guys used to scuba dive in the river channels and get gold nuggets until TVA started arresting people. This is a huge deal here for TN detectorists because many Civil War sites are owned by TVA.
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I stand by what I already said, in regards to RIVERS i.e. streams over ten miles long...

<*)))>{
 
Ice Scratcher said:
I stand by what I already said, in regards to RIVERS i.e. streams over ten miles long...

<*)))>{
Click to expand...

I'm talking about rivers. They own almost all river access points and in some areas they claim the entire river since they control our rivers with their dams. Other mountainous rivers are owned by the state or national parks here so that is illegal too. About only thing we can get away with is if a creek goes into a city or county park or onto private property that is only thing safe to detect. There is like 3 boating areas they don't own the shoreline so our club members are allowed to detect up until 5 ft from shore because the state owns the water from 5 ft out and deemed detecting as illegal.
 
hillbillydigger said:
I'm talking about rivers. They own almost all river access points and in some areas they claim the entire river since they control our rivers with their dams. Other mountainous rivers are owned by the state or national parks here so that is illegal too. About only thing we can get away with is if a creek goes into a city or county park or onto private property that is only thing safe to detect. There is like 3 boating areas they don't own the shoreline so our club members are allowed to detect up until 5 ft from shore because the state owns the water from 5 ft out and deemed detecting as illegal.
Click to expand...

You are getting closer to the truth, if they own all access points, then you cannot legally get to the water...

They still don't own the water, if you could get dropped off into the water by a helicopter without touching their land, you would be legal.

Again, TVA, does not own RIVERS lol...

<*)))>{
 
You need to set the TVA straight, Ice Scratcher!

I'm going to admit that I don't have a dog in this fight but I sure wish Ice Scratcher would come down to TVA country and start removing artifacts from the rivers. Why drop from a helicopter? Just put in at one of the legal boat ramps. The TVA is an independent corporation owned by the federal government and therefore they make their own rules and regulations and answer to no-one. The Feds can close anything to anybody at anytime. Just ask any of the 15,000 families that were kicked out of their homes and off their property back when the TVA started. I do believe the TVA is a lot like the state of Florida in that the 'public' owns the navigable waters from high water to high water including the submerged land under the water. BUT, there are extreme limitations on what the 'public' can remove from the banks and the submerged areas. I believe it is a 3rd degree felony to remove artifacts from the river bottoms in Florida. I believe the same holds true for salt water relics and artifacts.
 
If all this is true, the TVA sounds like its just half a step less bad than the North Korean military.
 
Like I said there was also guys scuba diving the river for gold nuggets with their detector. They were way past the 5 ft mark and got arrested and huge fine. TVA just recently kicked a bunch of people out of their homes because they needed more land to dump ash from their coal burning plant. Can't even detect in the abandon yards because TVA put up no trespassing tape and signs saying it is federal offense and will lead to arrest.
 
Gatchaman said:
You could ask Aquachigger (search youtube). He's done the most river detecting of anyone I have ever heard of. He may have some advice at least on who to talk to.
Click to expand...

Aquachigger's finds are nothing short of amazing, and a heck of a nice guy to boot. I shot him an email, and with local laws varying to such a wide degree, his best advice was to get permission. As to who, well, that's the question. My only guess is to go through the city, see if the river is considered part of the site.

Thanks for the help guys.
 
hickory46 said:
I'm going to admit that I don't have a dog in this fight but I sure wish Ice Scratcher would come down to TVA country and start removing artifacts from the rivers. Why drop from a helicopter? Just put in at one of the legal boat ramps. The TVA is an independent corporation owned by the federal government and therefore they make their own rules and regulations and answer to no-one. The Feds can close anything to anybody at anytime. Just ask any of the 15,000 families that were kicked out of their homes and off their property back when the TVA started. I do believe the TVA is a lot like the state of Florida in that the 'public' owns the navigable waters from high water to high water including the submerged land under the water. BUT, there are extreme limitations on what the 'public' can remove from the banks and the submerged areas. I believe it is a 3rd degree felony to remove artifacts from the river bottoms in Florida. I believe the same holds true for salt water relics and artifacts.
Click to expand...

I don't know to much about this stuff but i know people have gotten in trouble for taking stuff from the suwannee river
 
I just want to point out (applies to all 50 states on non private land) that taking an item over 100 years old is illegal due to the antiquity act, some states (like new york) made it illegal to take items over 50 years old.
 
Glennz said:
I just want to point out (applies to all 50 states on non private land) that taking an item over 100 years old is illegal due to the antiquity act, some states (like new york) made it illegal to take items over 50 years old.
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The Antiquities Act of 1906 only applies to federally owned land. State, city or county land all fall under local jurisdiction. The Kentucky Antiquities Act (1968) does not list any specific time period, but does outline circumstances in which it would apply. In any case dealing with Indian or "poineer" items, or locations such as forts, a state permit must be issued by the department, as stated in the KRS.

...but there is no "department" that issues permits, at least not one that any government/museum/university staff here know of. When I originally asked permission from the county, I was pretty clear that I was after relics, and local government gave me the green light. On a side note, the other guy requesting permission to search parks for lost jewelry/clad was denied. Then again, I agreed to turn over any items of historical significance. He just wanted profit.
 
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