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  #21  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:07 PM
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What's the upside for most people? Best case they have a stranger digging holes in their yard and neatly refilling them. Worst is a stranger digging holes and making a mess. Unless they are curious as to what's in the ground, it's kind of amazing we get as many yes answers as we do. Always thought Beephead giving out the mini flashlights when he asked was a nice idea. Around here you can buy a lot of favor with a sixer or a 12-pack and this fall I may give that a try

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  #22  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Iggyks View post
What's the upside for most people?
My standard pitch is closer to "I'll show you what's in your yard if I can keep anything you don't want. Just point out any areas where you don't want me to go." I've never had anybody take more than a couple of things and many take nothing. I've had a few people let me hunt and say they're not interested in seeing what I find. I'll never understand those people, but I sure appreciate it!

I don't bring up length of permission until I get a chance to swing over the property. There's just no reason to muddy up the conversation about an extended permission if I end up not wanting to come back anyway.

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  #23  
Old 07-10-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Haha, boy have I heard that before ! They say that some day they'll get a detector, and thus don't want someone md'ing it before that. But you know full well they will never get around to getting a detector.

Also the song & dance of "No because of liability". Trust me: They could care less about "liability". The real reason is: They just don't want to be bothered.

It's not that they have any philosophical problems with metal detectors. But ... it's the psychology of the reason we all avoid solicitors of any type . Eg.: phone solicitors, door-to-door salesmen , junk mail that's selling something, etc... Even though it might be a GREAT PRODUCT, that does indeed "save you money", yet : The average person pays-no-attention, and simply doesn't want to be bothered with another thing to have to think about.

It could also be that it's simply "their property" and they're under no obligation to share their property with detectorists, even polite ones.

Bottom line is that we're asking for people to allow us to take things from their property. Not everyone is ok with that.

Skippy

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  #24  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Silversmith45 View post
That's one of the reasons I never hunt places where you need permisson.
Taken out of context. This sounds odd, like trespassing. Are we talking firearms, or metal detecting? Either/or?
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  #25  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:19 PM
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When I talk to one of the old timers and try to get permission I always focus the conversation on History. I mention how I have found old thimbles at homesites I have detected and how kids these days would not even know what a thinmble was for and then the old timer mentions his mother spending many hours on the front porch doing the weekly sewing. I also always mention how much I love history and how the relics buried in the ground tell a story of how people lived back then. I also always offer to share my finds with the owner.
And on the other end of the spectrum, I have been chased right down the front walk while asking for permissions LOL!

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  #26  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Ha, well ... I still say that the "liability" song & dance is merely a polite way to say "no". Here's why I feel this way :

I own a company. So I carry a $1,000,000 liability policy on-myself (for our business operations). And can have any person or entity immediately added on, and/or given a certificate evidencing insurance. With nothing but a cell-phone call, and have the proof of ins. in someone's hand instantly.

And I've had several occasions, over the years, where : When I hear the "liability" excuse, I have gleefully told them : "Not a problem, let me provide you with proof of insurance, to alleviate that concern".

But guess what ?? They STILL say "no". And then move on to some other reason

However, one time when I played this card, it did work. An old town demolition contractor let me on the site , right while they were working, once I'd had my agent issue his office a cert. So .... I can't say it's *always* a lame excuse on their end
i hear ya tom, but "most" people STILL don't give two sh*ts about that! they simply don't want you on their property!.times we live in! way it is!

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  #27  
Old 07-11-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by amc rulz View post
Taken out of context. This sounds odd, like trespassing. Are we talking firearms, or metal detecting? Either/or?
Farmers are more often faced with firearm hunters. This is where a lot of them get their attitudes toward strangers. This leads to contact with others who might just be looking to detect. Still their past experiences often judge their feelings toward anyone.

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  #28  
Old 07-11-2019, 12:19 PM
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Yes I absolutely hold no grudge against the farmer. Give me 400 acres of prime deer/homestead country In the middle of KY and then come ask to roam it. Ill hand you a beer and we can chat for hours about deer and treasure, and itll be the nicest no you ever get lol. Any permission Im given I consider a privilege and Im surprised at yes to be honest. But Ill take it


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  #29  
Old 07-11-2019, 12:31 PM
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Next time, show up with a case of beer or a bottle of Jack Daniels. That way, you'll look generous and not just a guy trying to get something from him for free.

I would definitely resort to bribery to hunt a 400 acre farm!

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  #30  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FreeBirdTim View post
Next time, show up with a case of beer or a bottle of Jack Daniels. That way, you'll look generous and not just a guy trying to get something from him for free.



I would definitely resort to bribery to hunt a 400 acre farm!


Absolutely! You should see this ground, I tried helping on farm, free welding, maybe I should have gone with some booze


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  #31  
Old 07-11-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Silversmith45 View post
Farmers are more often faced with firearm hunters. This is where a lot of them get their attitudes toward strangers. This leads to contact with others who might just be looking to detect. Still their past experiences often judge their feelings toward anyone.
I still dont understand I dont hunt places where you need permission.

You mean like, school yards? Or family property?
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  #32  
Old 07-11-2019, 07:17 PM
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So I'll throw my opinion in here as well.

Al's long as a person continues to accept their denials at face value, they will never get better with their permissions.

It's as simple as 'Make a friend make a Sale" isn't it amazing that nearly all our friends and family would say yes but strangers say no.

Bottom line is you didn't make the farmer comfortable or like you. It's not that the detectorist is a bad person, just didn't win the friendship battle first.

It might be in your look, attitude, smell, you might have had sunglasses on, not smiled enough. Hundreds of things. Now it's true, people are like dogs, and some we just don't have the time to get properly warmed up to prior to asking.

I believe Tom is right the guy was using liability as an excuse. I'm sure he let's farm related businesses go on his property, breeders, Crop Management services, ect ect. You simply didn't convince the farmer you were ok.

Many times that's improbable in 3 -5 minutes, but my point is you should always ask yourself what you can do differently next time, versus why he said no.

I do this all the time.

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  #33  
Old 07-11-2019, 07:44 PM
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many people have been lied to, "Sage Groused" etc. by people they graciously granted permission to. I think that is a large part of it.

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  #34  
Old 07-12-2019, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippy SH13 View post
It could also be that it's simply "their property" and they're under no obligation to share their property with detectorists, even polite ones.

Bottom line is that we're asking for people to allow us to take things from their property. Not everyone is ok with that.

Skippy
this is true! can be tough nut to crack! gigantic time waster too!
too much sh8t goin' down, it's a wonder people even talk to each other anymore! everybody is so paranoid! ..just sayin'

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  #35  
Old 07-12-2019, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill_Ace_350 View post
many people have been lied to, "Sage Groused" etc. by people they graciously granted permission to. I think that is a large part of it.
right! a lot of people lie and deny!
not sure why! not a phscycologist!
maybe insecurity would be a guess!

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  #36  
Old 07-12-2019, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Treble View post
So I'll throw my opinion in here as well.

Al's long as a person continues to accept their denials at face value, they will never get better with their permissions.

It's as simple as 'Make a friend make a Sale" isn't it amazing that nearly all our friends and family would say yes but strangers say no.

Bottom line is you didn't make the farmer comfortable or like you. It's not that the detectorist is a bad person, just didn't win the friendship battle first.

It might be in your look, attitude, smell, you might have had sunglasses on, not smiled enough. Hundreds of things. Now it's true, people are like dogs, and some we just don't have the time to get properly warmed up to prior to asking.

I believe Tom is right the guy was using liability as an excuse. I'm sure he let's farm related businesses go on his property, breeders, Crop Management services, ect ect. You simply didn't convince the farmer you were ok.

Many times that's improbable in 3 -5 minutes, but my point is you should always ask yourself what you can do differently next time, versus why he said no.

I do this all the time.
the french have a name for it!..they call it "an event phscycological!"
translated this means.."it's all in your mind!" how it applies in this context is
that if you think more positively, you can accomplish the goal!..in this instance, it specifically means being granted permission to hunt private property...

(h.h.!)
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  #37  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by FreeBirdTim View post
Next time, show up with a case of beer or a bottle of Jack Daniels. That way, you'll look generous and not just a guy trying to get something from him for free.

I would definitely resort to bribery to hunt a 400 acre farm!
My parents and grandparents were deeply religious and didn't believe in drinking. If you were to show up with that you would instantly get a no.

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  #38  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:05 PM
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Sorry Ill keep the joking to a minimum


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  #39  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:10 PM
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Ive received some amazing life lessons in this discussion. Perhaps I should have started with, all his neighbors like me and tell me to come back anytime, he knew who I was when I pulled in and we talked for roughly 30 minutes after the initial no, about everything from life to work to family. Maybe the whole idea here is maybe good people can tell other good people no, and it doesnt have to be justified. It ended with a handshake and a smile and maybe hell change his mind next time he sees me around.


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  #40  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Nailfinder85 View post
Maybe the whole idea here is maybe good people can tell other good people no, and it doesnt have to be justified. It ended with a handshake and a smile and maybe hell change his mind next time he sees me around.
I think that's a good lesson and a much healthier perspective than thinking everybody is paranoid.

It might be hard for some of us to believe, but some people are completely fine knowing there are some goodies in their dirt and they're happy to keep them that way.

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