Why buy a single frequency detector
- Thread starter ghound
- Start date
Monte
"In Memory of"
A good question with multiple answers or reasons.ghound said:
• Some people don't really understand what a "Multi-Frequency" detector is.
• Many prefer a "Selectable Frequency from a Multiple Selection "model, such as an Impact, Multi-Kruzer, Anfibio Multi, Deus, ORX than a model that kind of works with multiple frequencies (2 or more) such as a CZ, Sovereign, Explorer series, Equinox, DFX, VX3, V3I or other contender.
• Some dedicated detector users favor a Single-Frequency detector and might own two or more based on different frequencies and how each detector operates.
• A good number of people have a more limited budget and shop for something that's a better 'fit'.
• A lot of Avid Detectorists have enjoyed excellent success afield over a very long period of time with one or more detectors operating on a Single Frequency and see no need to change.
• Some of us are more 'specialized' hunters who work very challenging sites and deal with highly mineralized ground, confined spaces due to dense brush or building rubble, and most with a very abundant amount of nails and other ferrous debris. ... AND ... Quite a few of us have tried some of the so-called 'Simultaneous' models ,only to find that they fall short in performance for the challenges we can handle and do well using a Single Frequency detector with the best search coils, size and type, for the conditions we confront.
The so-called Simultaneous Frequency models don't transmit multiple frequencies at the same time via the Transmit winding, but instead transmit selected frequencies in very rapid order and are really Sequential Multi Frequency designs. Some actually operate (transmit) just one or two signals, but process the received signal at multiple frequencies to analyze the taraget response and pass along the processed received signal.
We all need to remember that no detector, regardless of who makes it or what frequency or number of multiple frequencies it uses, is going to be 'perfect' and do everything well. Some detectors out there on the market might work and find stuff, but to most of the more savvy detector operators they are a cheaper or inferior product. One they would never want to own or use. (By 'cheaper' I am referring to what you get for the dollar and not the build quality or engineering design, but what they offer and what they lack.)
Then there are the models in the mid to upper-end price range that have a proven history of above average performance in many applications and can make fine General Purpose detectors for a wide-range of applications. Sure, they still have a weakness or two, but thanks to their strong points in physical packaging and functional design, they are solid performers for many people, and they might be a single, selectable or multi-functioning frequency model.
I'm not saying all 'Multi' models are terrible, and from decades of experience I won't say all single frequency units are the best. I've owned and/or used them all, and in the end it comes down to a very personal choice we all have the opportunity to make. Buy and Use whatever we feel more comfortable with, and the detectors well. Be satisfied with what YOU decide to put in your hand when it comes to having fun, getting the performance we need, and finding stuff when we set out for an enjoyable hunt.
And for those who think they have a multi-frequency model that is the absolute pest-performing detector for all-around uses and want to pooh-pooh all my single frequency devices, come and visit with me. Let me lay out 6 to 10 'Test Scenarios.' Then, just set the unit up as you would use it to Relic Hunt an iron nail contaminated site like I most enjoy and show me how it will out-perform all the models I have. I'd welcome such a demonstration because I am always interested in learning. In finding any 'modern' detector that can match and/or surpass the results I get from most of my units.
Monte
Monte
"In Memory of"
A lot of numbers get tossed around that might be a 'MAP' price or some dealer's special. I prefer to compare all makes and models using their MSRP. That's the manufacturers determined price for any product and eliminates any dealer discounting or discount some consider. Example is the $299 Nokta / Makro put on their Simplex +.ghound said:
As for the coming Minelab Vanquish, the two lower-end models don't interest me, but I will get my hands on the top-end model they currently have planned. I wonder what the pricing will be on their next up-line Vanquish model they bring out ? Maybe the 4th Vanquish offering would offer Ground Balance control, both automated and manual.
And I also wish they would properly define how their "Simultaneous Multi-Frequency" really works to consumers, and also state the specific operating frequency. They used to offer 17 frequency BBS units and 28 frequency FBS units. So, the models with more frequencies got a different name. Just what is 'Multi IQ?' Some just say it means Multi-Frequency but that's kind of what BBS and FBS and FBS-2 referred to.
The Equinox 800 offers two more selectable frequencies than the 600, so wouldn't that make it different? And the EQ-800 has "Multi IQ" and they state the same for the Vanquish but it only has 3 operating frequencies, and I believe those are different frequencies than the Equinox uses. And none are individually selectable. It seems like they might have dreamed up a different new term to describe the Vanquish series.
I do find this series to be interesting, priced to compete with the entry-level to mid-priced range market, and the display layout looks 'functional' as well. I definitely want to try one out and, like all detectors on the market, I like to see what it can do, but more importantly I want to know where it falls short on performance as well..
I wonder if the Minelab folks are also busy engineering accessory search coils while consumers are waiting for the Vanquish release? I mean, the smaller coil for the Vanquish is an elliptical 5X8 and they should have made something in that mid-size range for the Equinox. And without a smaller size coil for the Vanquish series, perhaps they can use the EQ's 6" DD design and work up a desired-size coil for the Vanquish line?
It is going to be interesting to do some practical side-by-side comparisons of models like the Simplex+ using competitor's modls that are in a comparable MSRP range. Too much has been videoed using much more expensive models that are well out of the Simplex+ price-point, like the Equinox 800 or AT Pro and ??? We'll just have to wait for the Vanquish units to get released and use just their comparably-priced models with the Simplex+ and other units that are out there for sale.
Monte
KOB
Forum Supporter
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With my 40+ years of actual detecting , I've owned quite a few detectors , mainly for the beach. But you I think have owned or tried EVERY detector known to mankind ! I have learned quite a bit regarding detectors and their usage from you that I never really thought about before. So thank you !
You say you are currently into hunting relics in iron infested areas. Why ? Because it's so contaminated that others refuse to hunt it ? More of a personal challenge ?
Ex : I used to do fire pits at the beach. Not anymore. Just to much trash , not worth it. Though I do see some guys doing it. Mainly older guys - easier to dig , don't have to walk far , etc.
You say you are currently into hunting relics in iron infested areas. Why ? Because it's so contaminated that others refuse to hunt it ? More of a personal challenge ?
Ex : I used to do fire pits at the beach. Not anymore. Just to much trash , not worth it. Though I do see some guys doing it. Mainly older guys - easier to dig , don't have to walk far , etc.
ghound
Elite Member
Like i said before what works for me doesn't mean it will for everyone and i understand that.
I don't have windblown ghost towns with surface iron and milled coinage, nor do i have park hunting or curb strips etc, but i have sites that have had 1000yr+ of human occupation and that brings it's own challenges especially as most of the coinage is much smaller and lower conductor than that found in the US.
So definitely if you were to come and hunt my sites with multiple single freq machines and multiple coils, you'd find targets, but you'd also be leaving behind the same targets that every other seasoned hunter with single freq machine missed before you, that's one reason why multi IQ has reopened many of our old sites, because it finds the hard targets others have missed as we're approaching it differently.
Who was it that said, , “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”?
I don't have windblown ghost towns with surface iron and milled coinage, nor do i have park hunting or curb strips etc, but i have sites that have had 1000yr+ of human occupation and that brings it's own challenges especially as most of the coinage is much smaller and lower conductor than that found in the US.
So definitely if you were to come and hunt my sites with multiple single freq machines and multiple coils, you'd find targets, but you'd also be leaving behind the same targets that every other seasoned hunter with single freq machine missed before you, that's one reason why multi IQ has reopened many of our old sites, because it finds the hard targets others have missed as we're approaching it differently.
Who was it that said, , “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”?
Monte; And for those who think they have a multi-frequency model that is the absolute pest-performing detector for all-around uses and want to pooh-pooh all my single frequency devices said:
Last edited:
Rudy
Admin
I enjoyed your post very much Monte, but I have one small, but significant issue, which I quoted above.
If a detector transmit at a given frequency, the target will respond at that same frequency and no other. Although the detector designer may have used a design that processes multiple frequencies, it was done as a matter of design convenience and not because of additional information.
Speaking in electrical engineering terms, most (all) targets can be classified as "linear, bilateral networks". As such, they are incapable of generating harmonic frequencies, or frequencies other than the excitation frequency.
Having said that, since the detector transmitter is generating rectangular waves, some amount of energy is also being generated (transmitted) at harmonic frequencies, but at reduced energy levels, It may be possible to analyze these harmonics.
ghound
Elite Member
I believe kellyco have it at $199 pre order.
As with the Nox you can run without GB and still get good performance as it filters much of the ground anyways.
If you go onto Carls forum Geotech, there's all the info on freqs used in multi IQ, though i guess it's possible that they may choose different freqs for the Vanquish.
The small coil on the Nox supposedly only offers an additional 12% in separation over the 11 inch, so extra coils may not be as necessary as with other manufacturers detectors.
As with the Nox you can run without GB and still get good performance as it filters much of the ground anyways.
If you go onto Carls forum Geotech, there's all the info on freqs used in multi IQ, though i guess it's possible that they may choose different freqs for the Vanquish.
The small coil on the Nox supposedly only offers an additional 12% in separation over the 11 inch, so extra coils may not be as necessary as with other manufacturers detectors.
A lot of numbers get tossed around that might be a 'MAP' price or some dealer's special. I prefer to compare all makes and models using their MSRP. That's the manufacturers determined price for any product and eliminates any dealer discounting or discount some consider. Example is the $299 Nokta / Makro put on their Simplex +.
As for the coming Minelab Vanquish, the two lower-end models don't interest me, but I will get my hands on the top-end model they currently have planned. I wonder what the pricing will be on their next up-line Vanquish model they bring out ? Maybe the 4th Vanquish offering would offer Ground Balance control, both automated and manual.
And I also wish they would properly define how their "Simultaneous Multi-Frequency" really works to consumers, and also state the specific operating frequency. They used to offer 17 frequency BBS units and 28 frequency FBS units. So, the models with more frequencies got a different name. Just what is 'Multi IQ?' Some just say it means Multi-Frequency but that's kind of what BBS and FBS and FBS-2 referred to.
The Equinox 800 offers two more selectable frequencies than the 600, so wouldn't that make it different? And the EQ-800 has "Multi IQ" and they state the same for the Vanquish but it only has 3 operating frequencies, and I believe those are different frequencies than the Equinox uses. And none are individually selectable. It seems like they might have dreamed up a different new term to describe the Vanquish series.
I do find this series to be interesting, priced to compete with the entry-level to mid-priced range market, and the display layout looks 'functional' as well. I definitely want to try one out and, like all detectors on the market, I like to see what it can do, but more importantly I want to know where it falls short on performance as well..
I wonder if the Minelab folks are also busy engineering accessory search coils while consumers are waiting for the Vanquish release? I mean, the smaller coil for the Vanquish is an elliptical 5X8 and they should have made something in that mid-size range for the Equinox. And without a smaller size coil for the Vanquish series, perhaps they can use the EQ's 6" DD design and work up a desired-size coil for the Vanquish line?
It is going to be interesting to do some practical side-by-side comparisons of models like the Simplex+ using competitor's modls that are in a comparable MSRP range. Too much has been videoed using much more expensive models that are well out of the Simplex+ price-point, like the Equinox 800 or AT Pro and ??? We'll just have to wait for the Vanquish units to get released and use just their comparably-priced models with the Simplex+ and other units that are out there for sale.
Monte
Monte
"In Memory of"
I appreciate your comments. I just do what I can to try and help as some readers are newer or slower learners .... or misdirected.KOB said:
I use Relic Hunting techniques in search for old coins, trade tokens, and other smaller-size artifacts of interest, such as buttons, bullets, insignia, badges, jewelry, and 'stuff' that comes my way.
I related to "iron infested" places because those are how many smaller old town sites are, or at least of areas or sections of most older town sites are. And when I say 'oiron infested' I am referring to very desne amounts of closely-spaced iron nails, cut wire, and all sorts of other discarded ferrous debris. And we can't forget the challenges of taking on a lot of rusty tin and shards of decaying tin can, etc. (Which isn't really tin but acquired that name long ago.)
Buildings burned down, shipping crates were opened, and other everyday things caused a lot of nails to be left behind. I hunt the dense iron contaminated sites mainly because they are there and have to be dealt with. Yes, it is quite a challenge and not all detectors can handle nasty iron conditions well, so it then becomes more of a personal thing. I am trying my best to unmask any good target that's partially hidden.
Naturally, most of the places left around for us to hunt these days have been searched in the past, sometimes be me and most often by others. That means a lot of desired targets have been fund and removed, but they haven't been 'cleaned out' .. so I'm slowly working on that.
We have some very good detectors to select from and find one or two that we happen to like that can serve us well in such environments. I also find most of the experiences to be not just rewarding with worthy finds, but interesting sights to see that are nice and quiet, so that makes the outing 'comfortable.
Monte
eSCANZ
Full Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2016
- Messages
- 203
l Already have a waterproof multi IQ so there is no need for a non-waterproof one -
A perfect backup for my needs is a cheap waterproof single freq with all the bells & whistles -
I love hunting in all weather and enjoy taking someone with me when I do -
A perfect backup for my needs is a cheap waterproof single freq with all the bells & whistles -
I love hunting in all weather and enjoy taking someone with me when I do -
The Lama
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2014
- Messages
- 521
Many people like multi freqs for the performance in salt water but i used a single freq machine [tarsacci mdt] that was far superior in the ocean to any multi freq i have ever used,and non pulse prospecting detectors designed for highly mineralized ground all seem to be single freq
ghound
Elite Member
The new MD8000 Tarsacci is neither VLF or PI
It is difficult to call this unit a 'single freq' unit...… especially when it can work so well in the wet-salt.....and acquire a Nickel (the only coin-of-interest for me to test.... in the wet-salt environment) …… knowing how 'true' single Freq units perform (or not perform) in the wet-salt
It is difficult to call this unit a 'single freq' unit...… especially when it can work so well in the wet-salt.....and acquire a Nickel (the only coin-of-interest for me to test.... in the wet-salt environment) …… knowing how 'true' single Freq units perform (or not perform) in the wet-salt
Correct.
Tarsacci is one of a kind currently.
Closest thing to discriminating pi detector in Salt water, wet salt sand.
Tarsacci’s depth actually increases with salt added to detecting scenarios. Crazy sounding but true.
We’ll see how this Fisher Impulse AQ compares. This is a pulse unit supposedly.
When folks acquire and start giving feedback.
The AQ is a two channel Pulse Induction detector. By clever design, the ground balance control is used to vary the amount of discrimination from none to a lot. This discrimination is based on the duration of the return signal from metallic targets - a combination of conductivity and mass. By doing this iron and other “high conductors” can be ID’d and distinguished from low and medium persistence targets like gold, lead, brass, aluminum, etc.
longbow62
Forum Supporter
Yes I have re-hit spots and in some instances I have pulled a lot more silver out of places with the Nox 800. One spot a public park had been hit with almost everything and had been given up on finding anymore silver. I found 10 Mercs all deep there this spring.
I have seen the Nox 800 hit targets that an Etrac would not give dig numbers on while the 800 was giving no brainer numbers and tone. I pulled the only standing liberty quarter I have found to date from under a pecan tree that has had CTX, Etrac, AT Pro, Nokta Impact, swinging under so many times it's ridiculous. The first time under it with the 800 bam 30-32 but it was tight. I pulled numerous nails out of the plug. The quarter was still in the hole and my first silver with the 800. I knew right then there was something to Multi-Freq.
ghound
Elite Member
I'd agree entirely, especially in areas that have been hunted to death with every single freq going, they will have left loads behind.
Just take a look at some of the videos TNSS and others have made showing the advantages/disadvantages Multi IQ has, it's not perfect but it is different in how it looks at targets in ground.
I know some manufacturers will rubbish the claims that multi IQ gives, but wait until the day comes when they are also able to produce a multi IQ style machine, you'll then hear a different story....
Just take a look at some of the videos TNSS and others have made showing the advantages/disadvantages Multi IQ has, it's not perfect but it is different in how it looks at targets in ground.
I know some manufacturers will rubbish the claims that multi IQ gives, but wait until the day comes when they are also able to produce a multi IQ style machine, you'll then hear a different story....
Yeah right.
That’s why all are using bounty hunters and Ace 250s.
Come to my area and bring your Arrows.
And watch what happens to your arrows.
