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Dating Fire Department Button?

rcptuna

Elite Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
915
Location
North Shore Massachusetts
I’m having a hard time dating this button. It was dug on a river bank in Massachusetts. I’ve found similar button style searching online, but not this exact back mark with the 3 stars. It reads Waterbury Button Co with 3 stars. Any help would be much appreciated thanks.
 

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That backmark was used from the late 1860's-1870's, although from the pictures of the back of yours, it doesn't look that old. Can't tell much from the pictures of the front.
 
I’m having a hard time dating this button. It was dug on a river bank in Massachusetts. I’ve found similar button style searching online, but not this exact back mark with the 3 stars. It reads Waterbury Button Co with 3 stars. Any help would be much appreciated thanks.

Good chance of that one being late 1800s or early 1900s based on the backmark.

They still make them. I dug a newer one last year.
 
That backmark was used from the late 1860's-1870's, although from the pictures of the back of yours, it doesn't look that old. Can't tell much from the pictures of the front.

Thanks. I to was very surprised of the back condition, I almost thought it was silver when I dug it. Maybe the sandy soil it was in preserved it. Do you have a book that you looked up this backmark?
 
Good chance of that one being late 1800s or early 1900s based on the backmark.

They still make them. I dug a newer one last year.

Thanks. From the condition I was thinking newer, but when I coulnd't find that backmark and based on the location it was dug I thought older was a possibility.
Did you find that back mark in a book?
 
Thanks. From the condition I was thinking newer, but when I coulnd't find that backmark and based on the location it was dug I thought older was a possibility.
Did you find that back mark in a book?

That's just based on something I've picked up from reading about and comparing photos of buttons with confirmed dates. I've studied Tice's authoritative book of military buttons quite a bit, too.

Generally, from what I've seen, a Waterbury button is likely pre- mid-1940s if it:

-still mentions "buttons" in some way
-has "company" in singular,
-uses a serif font

For example, "Waterbury Button Co." or "Waterbury B. Co." or "W.B.Co." in a serif font.

On the other hand, it's likely post mid-1940s if it:
- References Waterbury companies such as "Waterbury CO's"
- does not mention "button"
- has block lettering

As far a dating pre-civil war, civil war, and post civil war up to the mid 1940s, there's a lot more to it.
 
Thanks. From the condition I was thinking newer, but when I coulnd't find that backmark and based on the location it was dug I thought older was a possibility.
Did you find that back mark in a book?

I just wanted to add that many old things are lost many years after they are made. Buttons, included. Perhaps there was a ceremony and somebody wore an old uniform, or some kid was given the button and lost it just a few years ago.

The FD button I found was actually on an old site where many 1800s relics have been found. But, mine was obviously newer. Shiny, cheap thin metal, a flat back with block lettering (with Waterbury CO's). It was already a couple of inches deep.
 
Thanks. I to was very surprised of the back condition, I almost thought it was silver when I dug it. Maybe the sandy soil it was in preserved it. Do you have a book that you looked up this backmark?

Yes. The date is from Tice’s book.
 

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They’re really similar marks, a subtle difference being the serifs on the letters, instead of plain block letters. From McGuinn-&-Bazelon backmark book:
 

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Yes. The date is from Tice’s book.

They’re really similar marks, a subtle difference being the serifs on the letters, instead of plain block letters. From McGuinn-&-Bazelon backmark book:

In addition to the serif versus non-serif lettering, the other difference from the 1860-70 example in Tice's book is that the dotted circle is on the outside of the letters rather than the inside.

The button appears to be somewhere between the 1890s and 1940s, and I would guess closer to the latter given the condition.
 
That's just based on something I've picked up from reading about and comparing photos of buttons with confirmed dates. I've studied Tice's authoritative book of military buttons quite a bit, too.

Generally, from what I've seen, a Waterbury button is likely pre- mid-1940s if it:

-still mentions "buttons" in some way
-has "company" in singular,
-uses a serif font

For example, "Waterbury Button Co." or "Waterbury B. Co." or "W.B.Co." in a serif font.

On the other hand, it's likely post mid-1940s if it:
- References Waterbury companies such as "Waterbury CO's"
- does not mention "button"
- has block lettering

As far a dating pre-civil war, civil war, and post civil war up to the mid 1940s, there's a lot more to it.

Thanks for taking the time to provide me with this helpful and valuable information, much appreciated!
 
I just wanted to add that many old things are lost many years after they are made. Buttons, included. Perhaps there was a ceremony and somebody wore an old uniform, or some kid was given the button and lost it just a few years ago.

The FD button I found was actually on an old site where many 1800s relics have been found. But, mine was obviously newer. Shiny, cheap thin metal, a flat back with block lettering (with Waterbury CO's). It was already a couple of inches deep.

That's some very interesting food for thought, I suppose anything is possible. If only the objects could talk! Thanks again.
 
In addition to the serif versus non-serif lettering, the other difference from the 1860-70 example in Tice's book is that the dotted circle is on the outside of the letters rather than the inside.

The button appears to be somewhere between the 1890s and 1940s, and I would guess closer to the latter given the condition.

Interesting, the smallest detail can tell a story. Thanks again for your opinion and brain power it is much appreciated. Happy Hunting!
 
Interesting, the smallest detail can tell a story. Thanks again for your opinion and brain power it is much appreciated. Happy Hunting!

There are so many variations that the smallest of details matter on these buttons. Many of the buttons have known date ranges not because manufacturers kept detailed records of when certain dies were in use, or even because there are archived sales catalogs, but because serious collectors have tried to keep track of where certain examples were found. That's based on far bigger assumptions and generalizations than if there were some sort of shared database.

Just imagine how much more would be known about buttons and similar relics if there was a database for collectors, detectorists and archaeologists to submit details and photos of their finds! A system similar to what they have in England, I think. Perhaps some detectorists wouldn't use it because it would give away good spots, but that's still more than what is being done now. (It occurred to me that users could have an option to upload the data, but it wouldn't go public until the user changes the setting to public (because they're now done with the property) or perhaps 5 years, whichever happens sooner.)

Otherwise, if people don't keep good records and pass their finds onto somebody who cares, it all just becomes interesting old objects rather than artifacts. Legitimate variations never have a chance to get "into the record" and upend those assumptions and generalizations. Also, if good photos and details were in some database, it wouldn't be as much of a loss if the actual items were some day thrown away or even just separated from whatever private records were kept.
 
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