This Makes Me Sad

After getting my Delta 4000, this is exactly what I am experiencing. I pass over targets that show up exactly how this one does on my machine. How do I fix this? Did I make the wrong choice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJmPqE4hjWc&feature=relmfu

Other situations can cause this jumpy behavior.
Just scanning a piece of irregular shaped trash can cause this same reaction, not every signal like this is necessarily a a piece of garbage laying directly on top of a good target.

You can't "fix" it, this is just how this machine behaves.
This is called masking, and different detectors handle this in different ways...some better, some worse.

If you are worried about it, when you get a signal like this just turn 180 degrees and hit it from a different direction.
This guy didn't do this, and that 4000 might have been able to read the coin better from that direction.
Detectors react differently to nails when you hit them from these 2 directions, sideways and lengthwise.
Also you can dig more trash.
Once you get trash out of the way the other signals come through.

I wouldn't go crazy over this if I were you.
Unless you hunt sites with tons of old rusty nails and other garbage like this, the chances of having a piece of trash laying exactly on top of a dime like in the video are there, but not super high.
Trash right next to a good target, near it or in the same area but at different levels are more common, and in those cases your 4000 might do better.
Just learn your machine well and have fun with it without regret.

I once found a silver chain with my cheap Compadre in the exact spot that a friend with an E-track just went over and couldn't find it, it was invisible to his much more expensive detector.
Even scraping the chain on the bottom of his coil barely showed a reaction.

Does this mean he bought the wrong machine?
No...some detectors are good at some things and different detectors are good at others.
There is a reason lots of us own more than one and several different coils, all sites and situations are not the same, but you do have a good one so just go out and have fun with it and stop stressing over this vid.

If can't wrap your head around that just find a bunch of clad with yours, jewelry too which your detector can do very well, and save up and start building your arsenal.
I might suggest the next one to add to the herd be a Tesoro.
Even a Compadre at about $150 would have found that dime, and I have always suggested that EVERYONE should have a Compadre in the arsenal for this and many other reasons...no matter what other detectors they own or swing.
 
Wow thanks for the in-depth reply. I know the video was exagerrated so I am not worried. I am just having a terrible time with the Delta 4000. It is my first VDI machine and it's driving me nuts. I have to turn down the sensitivity so much, no matter how bad the ground mineralization is. It seems to just beep all of the time and on good targets that are like 8" deep, it just jumps everywhere. I don't think I am giving it enough time yet, so we will see what happens.
 
I have found several nice coins in same hole with iron with my 4000. Every time I get a hit I scan it from different directions and if I can get a high tone from more than one direction I dig. The key date Lincoln (31S) I found was in the hole with 2 large rusty nails, but the 4000 sniffed it out. You just have to get hours of swing time and listen to the machine.


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Wow thanks for the in-depth reply. I know the video was exagerrated so I am not worried. I am just having a terrible time with the Delta 4000. It is my first VDI machine and it's driving me nuts. I have to turn down the sensitivity so much, no matter how bad the ground mineralization is. It seems to just beep all of the time and on good targets that are like 8" deep, it just jumps everywhere. I don't think I am giving it enough time yet, so we will see what happens.

Ok, I think I know what is going on.
You are brand new at all this and you are going through the same confusion we all do when we are newbies.
This will pass, you just have to get some more swing time under your belt and soon you will laugh at all these problems you are having, they won't be problems when you learn a little more.

I don't have your detector but I do have an F2 and it is a close cousin.
The same guy that designed most of the Bounty Hunters also designed the F4 and another F series model and some of the Teknetics models, also.
A little of the same DNA in mine probably runs through yours so let me try to give you a few tips that might help because lots of F2 users have these same problems so I am assuming these will work for you too, and lets just pretend they are the same unit for the rest of this post.

First thing, learn to swing slow when going over targets.
Learning this now instead of swinging too fast for a long time and then trying to change is harder than learning good habits from the beginning.
Try getting good at swinging at a speed of about 1 foot per second.
The slower you go the easier the detector will be able to lock on targets and give you more accurate info on the screen.
Swing too fast and you can get that jumpy behavior you are seeing...even over good targets.

Second, turn down the sense if you have too much chatter.
The F2 is a "hot" detector...very sensitive and can pick up targets pretty deep even if it is not turned up to max and yours is probably the same.
This is important when you are brand new at this, a lot of those extra signals you are getting are what we call false.
Eventually you will learn to deal with these, you will learn by sound and info on the screen what is real and what is not, and can turn up that sense higher, but right now turn it down to a much quieter level...if you have to even lower than you usually have it now.
You can deal with all this confusing noise better when you cut some of those signals out if you can, and don't worry about losing too much depth on lower power levels.
The F2 still goes deep on the lowest setting and yours probably does too.

Third, you need to learn what those signals that show 8" deep and and others that seem good really are.
On the F2 big iron, and I am not talking about metal that is just under the coil but several inches away, irregular shapes of trash of all kinds including small pieces, more than one target under the coil at the same time and other things can cause this jumpy behavior.
As I mentioned before we call this falsing and you will eventually learn the real tones from the ghost signals.

A big tip is when you get a signal and make some passes over it real targets under the coil, especially the good ones like coins, should be repeatable and sound of in EXACTLY the same place every time you swing over that spot.
False signals might seem like they are repeating in the same spot but in reality they don't...there will be a slight change in location, small as that might be.
When you learn a little more of what I call, "Eye-Coil Coordination" this will become easier to understand and recognize.
Just concentrate on the center of your coil and listen to when it tones and concentrate on noticing the spot when it does this.
This is a learned ability, not innate, but you will catch on eventually and this ability will also help you zero in on target locations without using the pinpoint button much when you do.

Go swing next to a fence pole or some big metal in a tot lot and watch the ground while you listen for the tone.
You will see that your detector will tone in the same place, almost but not exactly, and learn to recognize this.

On my F2 I have 3 depth bars that is supposed to give me an idea of target depth.
I don't use these for that, they are not correct a lot of times but I do use them in another way, to decide if I am hearing a real signal or a false one and also to determine if I am actually swinging over a solid real target but a trashy one.
Real signals on mine, coins, rings and whatever, will not cause those bars to jump much if at all.
Trash targets and false signals of all kinds will cause these bars to jump most of the time, and that jump will be more than 2 numbers which I actually would still consider a solid signal on my F2.
I use this to my advantage and even though I still dig a lot of trash because I choose to I usually know it is trash before I dig it and these jumping bars are an excellent clue.
You have more bars than I do.
Watch them closely on signals and notice if this is not true for you, also.

Also try to listen very closely to all the tones you hear.
Solid, good targets will actually sound different...louder, fuller, crisper than the false ones which a lot of times would be more "squeaky".
Again. a learned ability, nobody is born with this, but we all learn, eventually.

For now I would concentrate on just looking for and digging the more solid repeatable in the same place signals, including the trash...just ignore the others for now.
We all dig a lot of empty holes when we are new, but eventually we stop doing that as we learn more of the language of our detectors, the sound of those tones which are different as you get better at this.

Use these tips which are pretty universal for most detectors, use headphones if you have them to hear all signals better, go slow and just keep swinging.
The more you practice the better you get at this hobby and most things will start to make sense and "click" when you reach certain points in this learning curve.
It is different for everyone, but we all get through it and when that happens you will see how much fun this hobby really can be.
 
I am going to try to respond to this post as follows:

1 - I am not brand new to metal detecting, just VDI machines. I've used White's all of my life and just dug up everything. They all had manual GB and this machine has AUTO, so that is a different challenge in itself.

2 - My swing speed did increase with this machine considerably because it is only 2 pounds. I have been used to swinging 7 pound White's machines all of my life, so I probably do swing a little too quickly with this one. That's another hard change. It's basically like trying to teach a dog new tricks and modify ones that he has practiced for 10 years, gonna take lots of patience.

3 - Yeah I've noticed that the bars stay in the same place on a solid target. I use that sometimes. I just think I am having un-real expectations from this machine right away. First of all, it's a huge change going to something new that I have never used before. On top of that, this machine is so stinking light. It's like swinging a mop stick, without the mop head on the end.
 
Here was my experience with the Delta 4000's I had, and ultimately sold:


Discrimination left alot to be desired, if I discriminated foil, well foil just rang up as zinc. If I discriminated iron, well iron just showed up foil...and it did that for each section unless I JUST set it for dimes and quarters...on every one I ever used. The disc was nowhere near as good as the F2.

The sensitivity was good, but too good, I couldn't get anywhere near playground equipment or sidewalks, Two of the main places that I like to detect.

The Deltas wouldn't lock onto targets like the F2, instead every target was bouncy signal.

All 3 that I owned and tested were the same way, and I sold every one on ebay as fast as I could. I figure, let them be frustrated with it, I'll stick to my F2 since it tends to be a more stable machine.

That was my take on the Delta's I had. Seeing you frustrated with it, is like watching myself out there the field with the delta. I bought a second one thinking I would give it a try, had the same issues, sold that one. So, I had a chance to buy a 3rd one for a great deal ($100 so I couldn't pass up the chance at making a dollar,) and did. I used that one one more time, and sold it for a profit, so all wasn't lost. I feel your pain, bud, that's why I stuck with the F2.
 
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Yeah I've found that the Disc. Mode is a bit fishy. That is due to the sensitivity though. If the sensitivity is too high, it will go all over the place, no matter what it is. When I put it on a lower setting, it is spot on.

That is the problem with these sensitive machines. That is why people like to switch from a high sensitivity to a low one, to tell exactly what it is. It doesn't bother me much though because I like to dig everything. I am going to try to run it in Disc. Mode with sensitivity as high as I can get it and then switch to All Metal A1 and see if it is a target and what the numbers are. That should help a lot.

You probably didn't spend enough time with this machine. I have about 6 hours on it and I am slowly learning it. I was just at a playground and it actually worked wonderfully. The bouncy signal is because it is so sensitive. Switching to another mode will balance that out.

I was originally set on getting the F2, but after hearing so many good things about this machine I opted for it. It just takes a stronger learning curve probably. I don't mind that if I can reach 8" dimes with it. I will get there eventually. You seem to be an F2 fanboy and that is fine.

My dad is the same way with the White's machines...After learning analog-dig it all White's detectors all of my life, I am bound to have a few problems switching over to something this new.
 
F2 Fanboy? Nah, just a fanboy of a stable machine. I'd have gone back to a bounty hunter 2200 if that's what I had to fall back on.

If I was just a F2 fanboy as you called me, then I wouldn't have tried 3 different deltas would I? I gave the machine a chance, a few times, hours in the field on multile ocassions, thinking maybe it was just a glitch with one, but all of them were the same way.


I didn't use the delta blindly, as digger said, they are similar machines to the F2, but nowhere near as stable, and I say that after 3 years of swing time. You even admitted that by stating that no matter how far you turn the sensitivity down, the targets don't lock on like they should.


I wish you the best with it, like you said, with targets never locking on like they should, that's gonna be a huge learning curve.:lol:

To me, the Delta was like having a broken machine that you were just playing a guessing game with all the time. All I was learning was that the Target ID was all over the place, and that nothing was consistent with it.

Like I said, I wish you the best with it, hope you find a pot of gold! I HONESTLY DO!!!
 
Wow thanks for the in-depth reply. I know the video was exagerrated so I am not worried. I am just having a terrible time with the Delta 4000. It is my first VDI machine and it's driving me nuts. I have to turn down the sensitivity so much, no matter how bad the ground mineralization is. It seems to just beep all of the time and on good targets that are like 8" deep, it just jumps everywhere. I don't think I am giving it enough time yet, so we will see what happens.

That was my experience too, thus what I said above
 
I am going to try to respond to this post as follows:

1 - I am not brand new to metal detecting, just VDI machines. I've used White's all of my life and just dug up everything. They all had manual GB and this machine has AUTO, so that is a different challenge in itself.


Sorry, it sounded to me like your were brand new to this whole thing because this is these are same problems many others complain about and most of them sounded exactly like this and are brand new.

For me there is no difference between the two types of machines.
I use Tesoro machines with no screen and one with manual GB, and that F2 with a screen and preset GB...but even with the F2 the tone is the most important thing first and foremost.
If you had tones on the White's and swung it for that long you must know there are slight differences in tones and this one is no different but it takes time to learn them.
If you just had a meter on that White's it is time to start learning about tones.

Auto GB is Auto GB.
You don't have to adjust anything so you can't screw that up, and it might not be fine tuned like with manual GB but it still should work pretty well even if it is not optimized.
I hunted in probably the worst soil in the country in Birmingham Al...so bad even my manual GB Vaquero depth demon hardly got much depth.
Neither did my non manual GB units, but they seemed to get to the same depth on all of them.
In that case the manual GB rarely mattered.
Here in by better soil in Kansas they all go further.
Even my F2 gets very far without the manual GB.
How that preset GB works in your particular soil could be part of the problem but I wouldn't know for sure.
It could be much more stable for others in a different area of the country.
Lots have used the BH quicksilver/EX//First texas units and had no problems.
Mine couldn't handle my extremely hot Alabama soil at all.



2 - My swing speed did increase with this machine considerably because it is only 2 pounds. I have been used to swinging 7 pound White's machines all of my life, so I probably do swing a little too quickly with this one. That's another hard change. It's basically like trying to teach a dog new tricks and modify ones that he has practiced for 10 years, gonna take lots of patience.

Then practice...it will be worth it when you slow down.
Also, my F2 is known to be a very sensitive detector, chatty and noisy at times but it can usually be tamed and understood.
I have read yours can be the same...sometimes even more.
Doesn't matter, with time you just learn to read between the lines, as it were.
The language of this machine is chatty, it still can be learned, I assume, but like I said I never held one and I am just assuming it is similar to my F2.


3 - Yeah I've noticed that the bars stay in the same place on a solid target. I use that sometimes. I just think I am having un-real expectations from this machine right away. First of all, it's a huge change going to something new that I have never used before. On top of that, this machine is so stinking light. It's like swinging a mop stick, without the mop head on the end.

Noticing those bars and how they behave is a small part of the full language, I am sure there are others

As far as the weight, you can very easily change this if you want.
Get some ziplock bags and fill them with water.
Tape them to either your coil or rod or both.
Arrange them right and it should be balanced and slowly take water away every time you use it till you are used to the lighter weight.

Yes it's new to you, but that is one of the most fun things about this hobby for me...using and eventually getting good at using new detectors.
It is not a quick process but it is a process and you just have to let it happen.

A few others like Ozarks have said that they never could get a handle on the one you swing, it was just a little too unstable and that might be the case for you, too, but you are really new with this and I am sure you know you have to give it a lot more time before you make that decision.
I do read about so many others that went through this with this unit, were frustrated for awhile but came out the other side and now love it.

Good luck!
 
I do read about so many others that went through this with this unit, were frustrated for awhile but came out the other side and now love it.

Good luck!
+1 digger for a helpful post!:cool:
 
No, I said once I turn the sensitivity down, it makes it much more stable and the targets are spot on. Anyways, I didn't plan on this being a fight, I just wanted a little help. I figured out what I need to do. End of discussion. Thanks!

But seriously, I am too impatient for anything. I am sure I will get a knack for it before too long. The other day I was out, I was really getting better with it. Just takes some time. I was used to the White's audio signals. I could tell every single time that the thing below was a nail or a piece of scrap metal. I am sure I can do the same thing with this machine if I learn it.
 
+1 digger for a helpful post!:cool:

Without swinging this thing in his area, or ever, I really don't have a clue what is really going on, but I do read a lot of posts about not only the ones I swing but others and I have noticed plenty on both sides of the fence regarding the Delta.
You know me...Just trying to help out anyone any way I can in my limited fashion enjoy this hobby as much as I do.
 
I really haven't had any issues with my Delta 4000 except EMI under powerlines or near underground electric dog fences. With my 5" DD coil I can run sensitivity at 11 in areas I run larger coils at 7 or 8. I think Digger pointed out somewhere that even with VDI we should listen carefully rather than become reliant on the VDI. That advice helped me tremendously.
 
I really haven't had any issues with my Delta 4000 except EMI under powerlines or near underground electric dog fences. With my 5" DD coil I can run sensitivity at 11 in areas I run larger coils at 7 or 8. I think Digger pointed out somewhere that even with VDI we should listen carefully rather than become reliant on the VDI. That advice helped me tremendously.

Glad I helped.

In Sales we have a saying...

"You have 2 ears and one mouth so you should listen twice as much as talk"

Good advice relating to most things in life I have found.
 
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