Big Boys Hobbies

Discriminating Pinpointers, and why we need them

I

IDXMonster

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Metal detecting tech has made some advances in various forms over the years, but that’s only part of the entire picture. For those who hunt extremely trashy parks, schools, old homesites, fairgrounds, etc., they can find themselves with a “maybe” target initially, and then open the hole to find scores of metallic bits and nails. After perhaps a few minutes of trying to locate a coin that they don’t really know is in there or not, they close the hole back up and the signal is still there!….or worse yet….it’s not. All that rummaging around could very well have now moved some iron around and now that coin is STILL THERE, but now masked. Our only option is to remove ALL trash til the pinpointer stops going off, but with minute iron flake and hot ground, it might not EVER stop, even if you de-tune the pinpointer.
We all know that once upon a time, Sunray made many different in-line probes for many different makes….Whites, Fisher, Minelab, Garrett….many. For those who have not had experience with these, they have the same discrimination and pinpointing abilities as the main machine itself….they are a 1” “coil on a stick” that does it ALL….and they can tell you very quickly if you’re after an actual coin or not, even if it’s a nickel. Locating a target amidst nails and iron flake is almost instantaneous. The question is….WHY have manufacturers not thought of adding a GOOD discriminating pinpointer to their lineups for various machines? I’m not talking about the ones that supposedly can discriminate iron, those are not the same game here. I know from experience that the Sunray probes make recovery very quick and easy, no more flopping around on the ground with a bushel of dirt out of the hole looking for something that may or may not even be there!
I am posting this in response to MT Trashdiggers post about his first Barber dime. He states that he would dig high tones in the past, but all that was in the hole was a nail. Or was there? I am DEAD sure I have lost a few coins because of just walking away due to the frustration of trying to locate it with a standard pinpointer. IMHO, it’s a critical part of the overall detecting experience that could be made for a reasonable price, be made lighter and robust, and has been completely and totally overlooked by all of the manufacturers.
 
There's one pinpointer made, that touts the ability to discriminate ferrous vs non-ferrous . So that *at least* you can recognize a nail in the hole. But the problem is, that it only works for the first inch or so. Beyond that (the 2nd inch of depth), all targets sound the same. What a hassle.

This is why many guys refused to upgrade from the Explorer & Etrac, to the CTX and Nox, was that the sunray inline probe (that has full TID) was/is so much fun. You can effortlessly pass anything else in the hole, and hear your probe "sing" on the silver dime at the bottom of the hole :laughing:
 
IDXMonster said:
Metal detecting tech has made some advances in various forms over the years, but that’s only part of the entire picture. For those who hunt extremely trashy parks, schools, old homesites, fairgrounds, etc., they can find themselves with a “maybe” target initially, and then open the hole to find scores of metallic bits and nails. After perhaps a few minutes of trying to locate a coin that they don’t really know is in there or not, they close the hole back up and the signal is still there!….or worse yet….it’s not. All that rummaging around could very well have now moved some iron around and now that coin is STILL THERE, but now masked. Our only option is to remove ALL trash til the pinpointer stops going off, but with minute iron flake and hot ground, it might not EVER stop, even if you de-tune the pinpointer.
We all know that once upon a time, Sunray made many different in-line probes for many different makes….Whites, Fisher, Minelab, Garrett….many. For those who have not had experience with these, they have the same discrimination and pinpointing abilities as the main machine itself….they are a 1” “coil on a stick” that does it ALL….and they can tell you very quickly if you’re after an actual coin or not, even if it’s a nickel. Locating a target amidst nails and iron flake is almost instantaneous. The question is….WHY have manufacturers not thought of adding a GOOD discriminating pinpointer to their lineups for various machines? I’m not talking about the ones that supposedly can discriminate iron, those are not the same game here. I know from experience that the Sunray probes make recovery very quick and easy, no more flopping around on the ground with a bushel of dirt out of the hole looking for something that may or may not even be there!
I am posting this in response to MT Trashdiggers post about his first Barber dime. He states that he would dig high tones in the past, but all that was in the hole was a nail. Or was there? I am DEAD sure I have lost a few coins because of just walking away due to the frustration of trying to locate it with a standard pinpointer. IMHO, it’s a critical part of the overall detecting experience that could be made for a reasonable price, be made lighter and robust, and has been completely and totally overlooked by all of the manufacturers.
Click to expand...

Deteknix/quest and minelab are the only ones I know of that disc.

I don't seem to have a problem locating a target one I pop the plug
 
IDXMonster said:
...
We all know that once upon a time, Sunray made many different in-line probes for many different makes….Whites, Fisher, Minelab, Garrett….many. For those who have not had experience with these, they have the same discrimination and pinpointing abilities as the main machine itself….they are a 1” “coil on a stick” that does it ALL….and they can tell you very quickly if you’re after an actual coin or not, even if it’s a nickel.
Click to expand...

I have a Sunray probe on my MXT. Works great, except for the part were you need to flip the switch back to connect the coil. I've been known to forget to do that a few times and then wonder what happened to all the targets. :roll:
 
Rudy said:
I have a Sunray probe on my MXT. Works great, except for the part were you need to flip the switch back to connect the coil. I've been known to forget to do that a few times and then wonder what happened to all the targets. :roll:
Click to expand...

OMG I have a LONG story about not flipping the switch on my Explorer, much too long for right now. But I have felt the pain brother!:lol:
 
Tom_in_CA said:
There's one pinpointer made, that touts the ability to discriminate ferrous vs non-ferrous . So that *at least* you can recognize a nail in the hole. But the problem is, that it only works for the first inch or so. Beyond that (the 2nd inch of depth), all targets sound the same. What a hassle.

This is why many guys refused to upgrade from the Explorer & Etrac, to the CTX and Nox, was that the sunray inline probe (that has full TID) was/is so much fun. You can effortlessly pass anything else in the hole, and hear your probe "sing" on the silver dime at the bottom of the hole :laughing:
Click to expand...

"But the problem is, that it only works for the first inch or so. Beyond that (the 2nd inch of depth), all targets sound the same."

I lost interest back when I saw a Utube showing you'd really need to almost be physically touching an iron target to get the iron reading. It seemed sorta useless to me.
 
goldendreams said:
Deteknix/quest and minelab are the only ones I know of that disc.

I don't seem to have a problem locating a target one I pop the plug
Click to expand...

I am not positive, but we might be playing a slightly (or vastly) different game. When I am hunting ANY of the sites I hunt, ALL coins I am after are 7-12” deep and almost EVERY hole either has chopped metallic trash, a nail, multiple nails, pieces of nails, nail heads….you get the picture. It can be EXTREMELY difficult to locate the target efficiently and quickly, even with a spot-on initial location of the target. Add in ANY amount of burnt coal in any form and it becomes even more difficult. In fairly “normal” conditions, a regular pinpointer is fine and it’s not an issue. But these sites are not normal, or even close. What they are is very unpleasant to hunt.
 
Ok the Profind 35 was a feeble attempt. I got one as a Christmas gift the year they came out and in the box it still sits. After a couple tests I realized you needed to be 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch away before it would separate ferrous from non-ferrous. My thoughts if I already have dug, in for a penny in for a pound, I wanna see whats in the hole.
When Minelab first introduced the Equinox they said it would connect up to 4 devices via Bluetooth, perfect, a Bluetooth pinpointer can't be far off and if Sunray can make the probe its only a matter of time before some will incorporate that into a wireless bluetoothe type device. Maybe a little more involved than I imagine. We'll see.

And while were on the subject , why is it so important for the pinpointer to pair to the headphones ? They say oh, so they don't have to take their headphones off or, they don't want to attract any attention. Put the friggin thing on vibrate. What the big deal ? Alot of wasted technology that could be spent on a wireless ferrous-non-ferrous discriminating pinpointer. Just my 2 cents. Mark
 
IDXMonster said:
I am not positive, but we might be playing a slightly (or vastly) different game. When I am hunting ANY of the sites I hunt, ALL coins I am after are 7-12” deep and almost EVERY hole either has chopped metallic trash, a nail, multiple nails, pieces of nails, nail heads….you get the picture. It can be EXTREMELY difficult to locate the target efficiently and quickly, even with a spot-on initial location of the target. Add in ANY amount of burnt coal in any form and it becomes even more difficult. In fairly “normal” conditions, a regular pinpointer is fine and it’s not an issue. But these sites are not normal, or even close. What they are is very unpleasant to hunt.
Click to expand...

Really? "ALL coins I am after are 7-12” deep and almost EVERY hole either has chopped metallic trash".
 
Martin_V3i said:
Really? "ALL coins I am after are 7-12” deep and almost EVERY hole either has chopped metallic trash".
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, yes. That is where the old coins reside on public land in my general area. I can very likely count on one hand the number of silver coins I’ve found at less than 6” deep. I’d much rather not have it this way but it’s all I got!:lol:
 
One of the problems with the Pro Find 35 is that in the past I would dig a hole, inspect it with the Pro-find 35 and get near enough and find you hit iron.

What I didn't know until I started using the CTX3030 that there was often other non-ferrous goodies mixed with the iron. That was my big operator mistake.

Now I keep digging and sweeping the hole with my CTX until I am sure that all the targets are dug and out of the way.

One would think that Minelab could make a much better pinpointer. The micro electronic chips are so small now they could easily fit into the handle with a TID numeric readout on the top side of the handle.
 
Yep. Ever since giving up my Sunray I’ve been wondering how long it’s gonna take for a manufacturer to come up with something similar, but wireless. I would think the technology is there, considering we’ve had completely wireless XP detectors on the market for more than a decade now. Makes me wonder if manufacturers just don’t realize how big of a hit it would be, or if they think it would just be too expensive to manufacture? I know I’d be willing to break out my wallet for one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Rattlehead said:
Yep. Ever since giving up my Sunray I’ve been wondering how long it’s gonna take for a manufacturer to come up with something similar, but wireless. I would think the technology is there, considering we’ve had completely wireless XP detectors on the market for more than a decade now. Makes me wonder if manufacturers just don’t realize how big of a hit it would be, or if they think it would just be too expensive to manufacture? I know I’d be willing to break out my wallet for one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I as well.
 
I have to jump into this discussion....back when I had my Etrac I desperately wanted the inline probe addition, I couldn't for the life of me find one at a reasonable price. Fast forward, I have been through TONS of PPs and have settled on the PF35.

For my purposes, combined with the CTX it is absolutely perfect. I have the PP "holstered" on the down rod of the CTX so it is within quick reach of the plug once dug.

I too have experienced iron DSC when I have been within 1-2 inches of the target but always pass the coil over any previous plugged hole once I extract the iron...it is almost muscle memory for me now. I rarely if ever "leave a target in the hole".

That behavior has rewarded me many a silver spill as well as the occasional silver "right next to iron" (which I find to be a little Marketing BS)...but it has happened.

Lastly, I really like the configurability of the PF35...my 2 cents on a Morgan:lol:
 
IDXMonster said:
The question is….WHY have manufacturers not thought of adding a GOOD discriminating pinpointer to their lineups for various machines?
Click to expand...

I'm stepping a bit out of my depth here, but I believe the issue is that VLF technology requires movement of the detector for discrimination. Most pinpointers do not require movement to work, which can be awkward depending on the hole, and less efficient in finding the target.

To get around this, the manufacturers of handhelds would have to put the discrimination firmware on the PP (adding to cost and complexity), or do something like Sunray (which, as I understand it) leverages the firmware of the host machine. I'm suspecting movement would still be required.

Both solutions seem a bridge too far for the limited demand.
 
randy said:
I'm stepping a bit out of my depth here, but I believe the issue is that VLF technology requires movement of the detector for discrimination. Most pinpointers do not require movement to work, which can be awkward depending on the hole, and less efficient in finding the target.

To get around this, the manufacturers of handhelds would have to put the discrimination firmware on the PP (adding to cost and complexity), or do something like Sunray (which, as I understand it) leverages the firmware of the host machine. I'm suspecting movement would still be required.

Both solutions seem a bridge too far for the limited demand.
Click to expand...

You have very efficiently stated why we won’t see them Randy…all of the above. Unfortunately, Sunray’s in-line probes were GREAT for those who thought/think they’re great…but those numbers aren’t anywhere near high enough to resurrect the idea and make it profitable. Without the “profit” part, the rest is immaterial. And that is completely understandable.
 
IDXMonster said:
Metal detecting tech has made some advances in various forms over the years, but that’s only part of the entire picture. For those who hunt extremely trashy parks, schools, old homesites, fairgrounds, etc., they can find themselves with a “maybe” target initially, and then open the hole to find scores of metallic bits and nails. After perhaps a few minutes of trying to locate a coin that they don’t really know is in there or not, they close the hole back up and the signal is still there!….or worse yet….it’s not. All that rummaging around could very well have now moved some iron around and now that coin is STILL THERE, but now masked. Our only option is to remove ALL trash til the pinpointer stops going off, but with minute iron flake and hot ground, it might not EVER stop, even if you de-tune the pinpointer.
We all know that once upon a time, Sunray made many different in-line probes for many different makes….Whites, Fisher, Minelab, Garrett….many. For those who have not had experience with these, they have the same discrimination and pinpointing abilities as the main machine itself….they are a 1” “coil on a stick” that does it ALL….and they can tell you very quickly if you’re after an actual coin or not, even if it’s a nickel. Locating a target amidst nails and iron flake is almost instantaneous. The question is….WHY have manufacturers not thought of adding a GOOD discriminating pinpointer to their lineups for various machines? I’m not talking about the ones that supposedly can discriminate iron, those are not the same game here. I know from experience that the Sunray probes make recovery very quick and easy, no more flopping around on the ground with a bushel of dirt out of the hole looking for something that may or may not even be there!
I am posting this in response to MT Trashdiggers post about his first Barber dime. He states that he would dig high tones in the past, but all that was in the hole was a nail. Or was there? I am DEAD sure I have lost a few coins because of just walking away due to the frustration of trying to locate it with a standard pinpointer. IMHO, it’s a critical part of the overall detecting experience that could be made for a reasonable price, be made lighter and robust, and has been completely and totally overlooked by all of the manufacturers.
Click to expand...
This is a great post here and I agree. That would be definitely nice. I'm not sure they've overlooked it it's probably more of a technology thing. I would guess it would take a lot to get everything you need in one of those probes to discriminate not to mention cost.
Definitely keep fingers crossed!
 
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