Swage bullet

Bullets were much more interchangeably used then we sometime give credit for. I find Union stuff in confederste camps and vice versa so no tellin, that's why context is so jaded when it comes to figuring it out. Never understood finding a script I in a Yankee camp that had NO southern presence...we uncover strange things don't we?

See you soon reb!

Most of the Confederate bullets we find here are fired Gardner's.
 
Star base swage?

When I went in this morning, I took a good amount of time to look at this under magnification. I don't believe it is a star base. There is nothing there to make me think that. It is pretty obvious, under magnification, that it is the result of a bit of lead being displaced/re-arranged by the center of the punch when it was pressed and turned in the machine. Oh Well......Still a nice specimen, though.
 
I thought the word swaged ment the sizing process where the bullet was pushed through a die. A bullet had been swaged through a sizing die. I think it says that in ready aim fire small arms at Gettysburg book.
 
I thought the word swaged ment the sizing process where the bullet was pushed through a die. A bullet had been swaged through a sizing die. I think it says that in ready aim fire small arms at Gettysburg book.

From what I know, (and keeping it simple), I will say this: "pressed and turned" and "swaged" are actually 2 different processes. They both leave "similar" markings in the base. It has become a bit common, although not technically correct, to call both of them "swaged" because of the similar markings in the base. I would say that this one actually is pressed and turned on Custer's machine......
 
NICE bullet, I have dug swaged, and star , but not one with both , that baby is cool. Their is 12 different star types and sizes , and between 10 - 16 variants of the swage . The cal. .58 and .577 a mostly union round, but you bet some good ole rebs got their hands on plenty of them.:lol: Once again , killer lead.
 
True

Thanks Va-Reb.....x 2.

Respectfully, anyone doubting swaging bullets might want to research that a tad because they did in fact use a swaging process during the civil war. There were numerous bullet patents that document it. Bullets were either pored into molds or solid lead stock was fed into the machine to swage the bullet. The swage marks in the base was a tool transfer mark as the bullet was turned.

Also bullet patina is a funny thing. Some ground activity produces a pure white patina, some a chalky patina and some a gray patina. Anyone who has dug bullets out of a wet swampy area here in Virginia can attest that they will not have a chalky patina and will be just a flat gray.

In my experience ,ammunition recovered from CW camps may be bewildering at times to the digger. Sometimes the Rebs captured northern ammunition variants, and or, vise-versa. Gents, if the ammunition was useable and the powder was good, it would be utilized by either side who fell upon it.

.58 caliber is .58 caliber, .54 caliber is .54 caliber. etc... If it would ram home and the gun would shoot it; some soldier was going to fire it. In battlefield areas, troops may over run an area and seize anything from prisoners, cannons, horses, wagons, rations and yep....creates of ammunition. That's how some variants of one-side's ammunition ends up in the other's camp.

I hit a vey small CS cavalry camp years ago and dug some CS Merrills, CS Richmond Sharps and CS Smith Carbine ammunition. All of a sudden I digs some full Spencer Carbine cartridges. So, did some US Calvary Trooper slide through the old camp after it was unoccupied and dump some cartridges or did some CS Trooper have a captured Spencer Carbine and leave ammunition behind. I'm just not sure. Same with buttons!

I've also hunted geographic areas that were, at one point in the war, northern occupied. Once it was abandoned, it became southern occupied etc... That's why bullets from both sides will be found there. It may change hands several times during the war. An example may be high ground overlooking a river. Just a strategic vantage point for any side that may find it useful.

Again on the swaged thing and to quote Jobe Holiday, "You have touched upon how it was done, very simply the majority of Union manufactured Minie Balls in the Civil war were swaged. They used a swaging machine with a number of dies, in a circular wheel-like arrangement if I remember correctly and I believe steam powered. The lead was cut in slugs from long round bars which had been extruded to the correct diameter. The dies were closed, slugs inserted into the cavities, and the base pins were then pushed into the dies forming a perfect pointed and grooved projectile. A friend actually has some of the base plugs from one of the swaging machines. If you have the chance to look at a book on collecting Civil War projectiles, you will see an assortment of different markings in the base cavities of the Minie Balls, vertical lines, raised US in the base, etc. The C.S. Gardner bullets also used a swaging process to form a flange down over the paper tube for the powder."

Just something to ponder.
 
Manufaturing Information

Hdnsouth,

Respectfully, the bullets depicted in this post were machine swaged and not cast. If there were any bullets that were not cast it is the swaged bullets shown here.

They absolutely had the machinery and means to compress lead and form bullets. Many 1850 period plants utilized steam to run machinery or by gear, wheel, etc... I hope nobody thinks that the soldiers sat around camp and melted lead to make all their ammunition and carried a powder horn to fire it. Did it happen, sure but there were huge arsenals that turned out millions of rounds of ammunition with machinery. It was the most prolific time for ammunition manufacturing in this country with 100's of patents rolling in.

Even though it was the mid 1800's, there were some fantastic machinery that had been invented. Just consider the steam train for a second.

Some of the bullet manufacturing machines were often called a "Ball Press" and were commonly used in numerous northern arsenals.

So, the lead was somewhat tubular and was referred to as lead wire. It was fed into the machine and a short section was cut off. I'll refer to one particular bullet machine known as the Naylor Bullet Press. This civil war bullet machine had a 5-part set of dies used to compress and form the nose, rings and cone.

There were numerous civil war arsenals which used machines that swaged the bullet as well. The Frankford Arsenal and Washington Arsenal were just a couple I'll mention.

I invite any doubters to read "Round Ball to Rimfire" by Dean Thomas. It contains a bewildering array of information on civil war bullet manufacturing via machine.

The downside of a forum is that no one can tell if a reply post comes off as a smart *ss remark. A typed reply has no tone so please don't anyone think I'm coming across sideways on this matter. Heck, I'm as spry and happy as a rutting buck.

There are a lot of folks here that want the true "skippy" on a dug relic and its history. I can assure everyone that the long-spoke minie' balls photographed on this post were manufactured by a swaging process in a machine and were not cast in a mold.

Put your glass out and I'll pour you some beer.
 
Swaged bullets only account for like 1 in 10, aren't they? Couldn't remember the exact number.
 
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