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  #41  
Old 02-22-2014, 08:20 PM
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I used to stop or call for permission for parks in small towns. Most of them had no problem with me hunting there. Some towns had no idea, so they said to play it safe, maybe I shouldn't detect there. I STOPPED ASKING and have had no problems.
Just be sure to fill your holes properly and carry some trash in your pouch encase you are stopped. Just show the trash that you have removed from their park.
NOTE: Stay out of Naperville. $100.00 tickets

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  #42  
Old 02-23-2014, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Digger don View post
....
NOTE: Stay out of Naperville. $100.00 tickets
Couple of questions:

a) Is the Naperville thing the result of a rule that specifically says "no metal detectors" ? or is this because of ancillary verbage resulting from alterations or digging or removing, or something else?

b) do you know of anyone who's ever actually GOTTEN a "$100 ticket" for metal detecting? Or is this just the info. you were given by someone when having asked "can I metal detect?" Eg.: "you can be fined, blah blah"

c) If it's an actual rule in that town specifically saying "no metal detecting", then I'm assuming it's written down somewhere, in actual form where someone can look up the rules of said-city, right? Like on their website, or on the wooden sign at the entrance to the park, or in binder form at city-hall desk, etc.... In other words, such a thing for that city (if someone were worried) could have been found via research, such they don't have to go to city hall asking "can I metal detect". They can have looked it up themselves, right ?
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  #43  
Old 02-23-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Digger don View post
I used to stop or call for permission for parks in small towns. Most of them had no problem with me hunting there. Some towns had no idea, so they said to play it safe, maybe I shouldn't detect there. I STOPPED ASKING and have had no problems.
Just be sure to fill your holes properly and carry some trash in your pouch encase you are stopped. Just show the trash that you have removed from their park.
NOTE: Stay out of Naperville. $100.00 tickets
Are there any good spots in Naperville?

Just curious.

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  #44  
Old 05-16-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike1961 View post
I agree, sometimes it seems like the best approach is to hunt and apologize later if necessary.
Either that or take up sewing.
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  #45  
Old 12-29-2016, 09:32 AM
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Hi,

I am new to the forum but have been detecting for almost 40 years. I have been reading the posts and enjoying others insights and experiences and I realize my reply here is to an older post, however I feel it is important to correct some information.

A bit of background before I begin. I am an ecologist by training and have worked in the field of land management for three decades. I am familiar with the forest preserve systems in all five of the collar counties.

The forest preserves and conservation district sites in the collar counties around Chicago are not simply "land left over that did not get built on". In fact the six county area contains the highest concentration of remaining high quality natural areas as well as the highest number of endangered and threatened plant populations in the entire state.

Detecting in forest preserve system creates impacts in native woods and prairies in more ways than simply creating a series of small disturbances by digging. An individual walking a good grid system literally walks over most of that natural community in the process. A team hunt of three of four friends increases that impact.

These areas are treasures in their own right, just of a different type. Viewing them as simply a collection of left over land is not correct.

For many of us detecting is far more than a hobby or a past time, it is a true passion. The hundreds of volunteers working to restore and manage natural lands within the forest preserve systems have just as strong of a passion for these rare and irreplaceable lands as we do for finding coins and relics.

I will close with a suggestion. All of these volunteer stewardship groups welcome new people for workdays. Pitching in once or twice a year at a preserve near your home is a good way to learn just how complex and ecologically diverse some of these sites are. It also may give a detectorist a better understanding of why these places are so important to the future.

Best of luck with the 2017 season.
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  #46  
Old 12-29-2016, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by KingofClad View post
.... learn just how complex and ecologically diverse some of these sites are....

Welcome to FMDF. Your perspective as an ecologist will of course be biased. (And for good reasons).

Just as a PETA (People for the ethical treatment of animals) representative would shriek if someone suggested leaving a pet bunny in the car , while running into 7-11 to get a slurpee. (and for good reasons). Likewise they could rattle off and list all the reasons. Just as you've done here for the ecology/plants/wildlife.

And so too could an archie rattle off good reasons why we shouldn't metal detect (and for good reasons). They would rattle off indisputable reasons why no one should ever metal detect.

But as you can see, in each case, there will be obvious bias (with no shortage of good reasons the biased person will rattle off).

Yet as you surmise, the md'r is likewise biased. And .... if the choice is trampling on fragile grass, to get the colonial copper or reale ........ then .... he's probably going to choose to get the old coin. Not saying grass and 3-toed salamanders aren't important, but .... just sayin ......
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  #47  
Old 12-29-2016, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by KingofClad View post
Hi,

I am new to the forum but have been detecting for almost 40 years. I have been reading the posts and enjoying others insights and experiences and I realize my reply here is to an older post, however I feel it is important to correct some information.

A bit of background before I begin. I am an ecologist by training and have worked in the field of land management for three decades. I am familiar with the forest preserve systems in all five of the collar counties.

The forest preserves and conservation district sites in the collar counties around Chicago are not simply "land left over that did not get built on". In fact the six county area contains the highest concentration of remaining high quality natural areas as well as the highest number of endangered and threatened plant populations in the entire state.

Detecting in forest preserve system creates impacts in native woods and prairies in more ways than simply creating a series of small disturbances by digging. An individual walking a good grid system literally walks over most of that natural community in the process. A team hunt of three of four friends increases that impact.

These areas are treasures in their own right, just of a different type. Viewing them as simply a collection of left over land is not correct.

For many of us detecting is far more than a hobby or a past time, it is a true passion. The hundreds of volunteers working to restore and manage natural lands within the forest preserve systems have just as strong of a passion for these rare and irreplaceable lands as we do for finding coins and relics.

I will close with a suggestion. All of these volunteer stewardship groups welcome new people for workdays. Pitching in once or twice a year at a preserve near your home is a good way to learn just how complex and ecologically diverse some of these sites are. It also may give a detectorist a better understanding of why these places are so important to the future.

Best of luck with the 2017 season.
So to protect the property, it is off limits to all foot traffic or just to detectorist foot traffic?

Nothing more enjoyable than a taxpayer paid piece of property that cannot be enjoyed by the taxpayer. So in the long run this will end up being a snarled thicket great for bunnies any coyotes.

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  #48  
Old 12-30-2016, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Treble View post
So to protect the property, it is off limits to all foot traffic or just to detectorist foot traffic? ... .
The pat answer would probably be that pedestrian traffic is not disallowed.... but that you must stay single-file on foot-paths/trails. As opposed to typical md'r fashion, which is to walk circles and patterns all over wherever it is you're detecting.

Strange .... my lawn in front of my house grows just fine .... even though I walk on it all the time. And I see the lawn at an elementary school in my area with throngs of kids that trample it daily .... yet it's still green and grows
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  #49  
Old 12-30-2016, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
The pat answer would probably be that pedestrian traffic is not disallowed.... but that you must stay single-file on foot-paths/trails. As opposed to typical md'r fashion, which is to walk circles and patterns all over wherever it is you're detecting.

Strange .... my lawn in front of my house grows just fine .... even though I walk on it all the time. And I see the lawn at an elementary school in my area with throngs of kids that trample it daily .... yet it's still green and grows
LOL, I tend to grid my yard weekly from April through October and done have issues.

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  #50  
Old 12-30-2016, 09:18 AM
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Hey KingofClad...I enjoyed your thoughtful post! I would suspect most of us Detectorists are in form or fashion Ecologists or Naturalists...We spend an inordinant amount of Time outdoors and have all our Lives...We just naturally pay attention to things.... We have seen some big changes in the ecosystem in our 40yrs afield..We can identify plants, soil structure, rocks, animal tracks, weather patterns, reptiles and amphibians, trees, etc...way more than most...

A lot of us do clean ups, tree plantings...beach or river, whatever..any excuse to be outside is good enough! Detecting gives us a viable excuse to go explore! We are the least environmentally damaging of just about any outside recreationalists I can imagine. As you know, We sure as hell are not litterbugs! We track people by what they have cast off or discarded...Out in all weather, year round, self ordained Stewards and Wardens if you will...We do no more 'damage' than a squirrel or mole and a lot less than a beaver!...

Funny thing about beaver....Besides us, they are the only other mammal on this Planet that will drastically and quickly change an ecosystem to suit their needs...They will roll into a place, cut down trees, dam up a waterway, dig and root around...I know theres beaver over in those West Chicago park drainages...I've seen their work...had a Human done that in a managed park environment? That poor guy would be sitting in the slammer! BAD!

So yeah...We aint hurting nothing compared to them, and we aint nobodys problem, certainly not the grasses...the grass will cover us all eventually with no concern...I'd like to know what dipsh!t threw this refrigerator into MY river though! Probably some damn Sierra Club member!

I tell you what really frosts my buns worse than a Minnesota outhouse? Whoever imported Argentine grass and Purple Loose strife ornamentals!! In my Lifetime, That stuff has just decimated nesting wetlands and native habitat...
Mud
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  #51  
Old 12-30-2016, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Mud-puppy View post
Hey KingofClad...I enjoyed your thoughtful post! I would suspect most of us Detectorists are in form or fashion Ecologists or Naturalists...We spend an inordinant amount of Time outdoors and have all our Lives...We just naturally pay attention to things.... We have seen some big changes in the ecosystem in our 40yrs afield..We can identify plants, soil structure, rocks, animal tracks, weather patterns, reptiles and amphibians, trees, etc...way more than most...



A lot of us do clean ups, tree plantings...beach or river, whatever..any excuse to be outside is good enough! Detecting gives us a viable excuse to go explore! We are the least environmentally damaging of just about any outside recreationalists I can imagine. As you know, We sure as hell are not litterbugs! We track people by what they have cast off or discarded...Out in all weather, year round, self ordained Stewards and Wardens if you will...We do no more 'damage' than a squirrel or mole and a lot less than a beaver!...



Funny thing about beaver....Besides us, they are the only other mammal on this Planet that will drastically and quickly change an ecosystem to suit their needs...They will roll into a place, cut down trees, dam up a waterway, dig and root around...I know theres beaver over in those West Chicago park drainages...I've seen their work...had a Human done that in a managed park environment? That poor guy would be sitting in the slammer! BAD!



So yeah...We aint hurting nothing compared to them, and we aint nobodys problem, certainly not the grasses...the grass will cover us all eventually with no concern...I'd like to know what dipsh!t threw this refrigerator into MY river though! Probably some damn Sierra Club member!



I tell you what really frosts my buns worse than a Minnesota outhouse? Whoever imported Argentine grass and Purple Loose strife ornamentals!! In my Lifetime, That stuff has just decimated nesting wetlands and native habitat...

Mud


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  #52  
Old 12-30-2016, 01:51 PM
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Let's take a vote here:

What's more important: Would you trample fragile grass for the opportunity to get a colonial copper, or a seated dime ? Or would you forgo that coin in order to protect the grass from your trampling/walking effect ?
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  #53  
Old 12-30-2016, 08:53 PM
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Lol...grass is what my food eats.
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  #54  
Old 12-31-2016, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Let's take a vote here:

What's more important: Would you trample fragile grass for the opportunity to get a colonial copper, or a seated dime ? Or would you forgo that coin in order to protect the grass from your trampling/walking effect ?
Well, I will say this Tom, when theres frost on the grass, in the early Spring or late Fall...if a guy walks on frosted grass like hunting a Sportsfield early in the morning, we do break off the stems and kill it and leave pretty aggregious and incriminating footmarks that hold brown for a while...so yes, there is that phenomenon for us Detectorists to be aware of and be considerate about...I aint gonna find no seated dimes..I'm a claddie..

Other than that, no, grass is not encumbered or adversely effected by a human foot...I dont get the concept of grass yards, never have...a complete waste of time and effort to care for...I dont know who came up with this concept. I like a japanese style pebble yard, no mower or fertilizer required!...again, as far as native grasses are concerned, we are not the problem!

If anybody, Cyrus McCormick is to blame for the war on grasses! Born in the Shenandoah valley in 1809, inventor of the McCormick Reaper in 1845, if anybody, He is to blame for the Native Prairie Grass destruction! By 1856 he was churning out 4000 reapers per year!

And he built a factory in Chicago! Which burned down in the Great Chicago fire of 1871...Anyway, native grasses...they survived buffalo herds, wild fires, McCormick, so I doubt theres any exsitential danger we pose to this specie by rooting around for an old penny...

I like a well made Panama grass hat, and I appreciate a woven grass basket, and of course a grass skirt seductively swished on a lovely luawanna Lassie...other than that, I dont know about grass?...I suppose Wild Rice is a form of native grass? I did some harvesting of that for a few years when I lived in Minnesota back in the early 80's...I was the pole boy in a canoe up by RedLake...I'm a good poleboy...

I hate baling hay I can tell you, and mowing the yard, and I dont golf...so grass is something unthought of and a nuisance more than anything to me..ambivalence here..with a bit of respect though...I wont walk on a frosted grass soccerfield...Not so much for the grasses sake, but for the general idea of not leaving any tracks as to my existence....

I think papyrus is a form of grass? I read that book 'KonTiki' by Thor Hyerdahl back in the 70's..that sort of set my young mind in motion, so I suppose grass has had an effect on me to the positive? And you need some sort of grass to make a cob/mud wattle hut...thats the retirement plan....anyway, I dont give a damn about mowing the yard as you can clearly see...
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  #55  
Old 12-31-2016, 10:13 AM
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Hello All,

Just want to say thanks for wonderful responses to my first post. A couple of additional pieces of information might be helpful to understanding my perspective.

In my comment about trampling, I was not referencing turf grass, which is designed to handle heavy traffic including sports, picnics and lawnmowers. Turf grass is usually a mixture of specific grasses, many of them originating on other continents, and containing cultivars that have been engineered over time to be even more resistant to heavy use.

Rather I was referring to spring ephemerals, native grasses and sedges occurring in higher quality natural communities. Ephemerals bloom in that period of time before the leaves are fully out on the trees in spring. They are the typical spring wildflowers that many of us are familiar with and they die back by late June until the next year.

How rare are some of the natural communities protected within the forest preserve systems? The Illinois Natural Areas Inventory attempted to discover the last relic natural communities that still survived in the entire state unchanged from their original condition at the time of settlement.

The results are very telling. When all the best examples of all these communities were added up by acreage (woodlands, prairies, wetland etc) it came out to 7/100ths of 1% of the entire state. In the case of specific types like prairies it was even more telling with less than 1/100th of 1 % still intact.

Because of the peculiar geologic history of the Chicago Region and its recent glaciation, the six county region contains the largest percentage of those high quality sites and the vast majority are located within the preserve systems in the various counties. Efforts to expand and restore these areas through management are the only chance for their continued survival for the next generation to enjoy.

I guess the question of taxpayer land to able to be enjoyed by taxpayers is a matter of perspective and level. As a tax payer I am free to enjoy every part of the public lands system that is open to the public including trails, picnic areas, canoe and kayak launch points, shelters, nature centers and so on as long as I am respectful to the site and the amenity I am using. I accept that the enabling legislation that formed the Forest Preserves created them for conservation purposes and that some portions of sites need to be managed for wildlife and plants as opposed to human needs.

While one can argue that detecting is just another form of enjoyment it does differ in one fundamental way and detectorists need to acknowledge this in all fairness to the discussion.

Other types of users typically enjoy the site but generally do not remove something from the public system for a private collection. I have also enjoyed caving for many years and a corollary can be made to cavers who harvest the rock features within a cave system for their own private collection.

So my answer to the question of whether I would trample a rare ecosystem for a seated dime or a colonial copper is no. I enjoy recovering things like this and get just as excited as the next person when I see that thin edge of silver peeking out of the clod. But I also enjoy wild orchids and spring beauties and believe I have a responsibility for their survival as well.

Hope you continue to enjoy the perspective and wishing everyone the most outstanding surprises in the upcoming season.
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  #56  
Old 12-31-2016, 11:01 AM
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You are one hell of a writer KingofClad! I for one can appreciate your 30yrs afield paying attention to the Environment...Allow me to submit my major concerns and plead for your input on this regard...

My greatest noticings/concerns in my Lifetime are the immediate die off of Reptiles, insects, and Amphibians..Was a time, not long ago, a guy could find a leopard frog, bullfrog, Bufo Americanus toad, salamanders, blue racers, Chelydra Serpentina, Eastern Box turtles, Blandings, a wild bee swarm...Even through the 70's and 80's of heavy pesticide/herbicide usage, we noticed and found these creatures on just about any outing..

This is the FIRST year I have not seen or found ANY of my old friends?! I am GREATLY concerned!...I have to wonder what is going on and have my musings about hormonal/waste water kind of effluent and its effects...

I lived through the 'River fires' (Ashtabula) damage, so basic 'pollution' cant be the reason?...Me and my woodland friends made it through that...So I dont know man...I appreciate your expertise here and await your reply as to what you think is going on? Dammit I miss my friends!...I found a Luna Moth once...I doubt anybody can find one now, even with a $1000 bounty...somethings going on in the substructure...
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:47 PM
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king-of-clad, I agree with mud that your stance is well-written. All I can say is, re.: your position: Of COURSE the nature grasses, wild-life, eco-systems, etc.... will take priority. And you will, of course, you'll figure that others too should see this pecking order of priority. And it is very hard for individuals to see their own bias's. They will, of course, figure that everyone else should/would have those same priorities. And they will, of course, be able to cite dire sounding laws and statistics that bear out what they are saying.

So too if we were hearing from a purist archie, would he bristle at the thought of disturbing old coins, etc... And could cite statistics and laws to bear out his stance. And would deny any biases on his part, and say it's just common sense, respect, etc... And so too if we were hearing from an IRS agent would be bristle at the notion of not reporting our md'ing finds income on our tax returns. And perhaps cite dire sounding laws to bolster what he is saying as well. Hence he would fail to understand how anyone doesn't "get it".

In other words, everyone has their specific niche interests. Combined with LOADS OF EVIDENCE AND STATISTICS of why everyone else should share the same concerns, etc..... And often time those goals and interests have conflicts. Eg.: grass naturalists vs md'rs, archies vs md'rs, etc.... And while it would be great if everyone could be happy at the same time, it's not always possible.
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Old 01-07-2017, 09:17 AM
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Mud Puppy,

Thank you for the kind words regarding the writing. Your observations are not not random and the inventory data across the region over the past decade bears out what your senses are telling you, reptiles and amphibians of many diverse types are in a steep decline and no single reason appears to be the culprit.

A good example of this type of decline is the cricket frog. It is a small animal and into the early 1980's one of the most common spring callers across the Chicago Region. The call is a distinctive sound like two glass marbles being hit together. The animal could be found in many areas, even those wetlands not of higher quality.

In the early 1980's it began to disappear across the region, a phenomena known as "winking out" in biology. The same thing seems to be occurring with other types of frogs including the leopard frog you mentioned.

A couple of research projects have implicated the surfactants used in common garden herbicides such as Round Up. The surfactant isn't the actual poison but rather the ingredient that allows the chemical to adhere to leaves when it is sprayed.

Other known factors for the loss of many species is a pretty straight forward one, there is less habitat now than there was 10, 20, 40 years ago and what is set aside is often isolated and disconnected from other habitats of the same type by roads and subdivisions, meaning that one random event can wipe out a population and there is no place for a new population to arrive from to replace it.

The good news is that in a number of the collar counties active programs are reintroducing new populations of these species as habitat is restored and in many cases they are thriving.

For me (and I am going to guess for you as well) detecting is always a nice mix of being outdoors and finding history to make me wonder about the past, coins that make me smile when my pocket is full of them and the beauty of trees and birds and clouds as my companions.

Hoping you have many great adventures of both types in the coming year.
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:12 AM
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Thanks KOC! Damn Roundup!

When we were kids, back in the late 60's/70's it was nothing to take a small Gerber babyfood jar and on any given day in the Summer, even in a large city like Detroit where I grew up, go out and catch it full of honeybees right out of the clover and dandelions growing on the yard!

Whens the last time anybody has seen a wild honeybee? Or any pollinating native insect in any appreciable numbers? Its a trickle down effect for sure...and it happened very quickly...Damn this Roundup! I know Honeybees are not a Native Specie here and were imported from Europe long ago, but still...a guy cant help but notice such a swift and drastic change in the small critters...

That whole Rachel Carson 'Silent Spring' book about pesticides takes on some meaning when a guy observes such a rapid decline in the Spring Peepers..Even way out in the boonies where theres not a whole lot of people, somethings up, and its pointing to 'Roundup style herbicide' usage, which was introduced to the market in 1974...so this is making some sense to me and my observations on my time on this Planet...I'm not a scientist, but I sure notice things!

So heres a quick MP pen concerning, that might bring awareness to the Roundup usage in the Urban landscape...damn these chemical marketing efforts to people that think they need a weed free yard!

"For want of a yard a plant was lost.
For want of a plant, a hive was lost.
For want of a hive a crop was lost.
For want of a crop mankind was lost.
All for the want of a weed free yard."
Mud

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Old 01-10-2017, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mud-puppy View post
I found a Luna Moth once...I doubt anybody can find one now, even with a $1000 bounty...somethings going on in the substructure...
Mud
Wait, What? $1000 bounty for a luna moth? I had one at my house this past summer. are you paying the bounty Mud?
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