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Sidewalk tear-outs.....tresspassing??

milco

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
5,233
Location
Milwaukee
I have hunted side walk tear out's for years, but recently was questioned about this. Keep in mind anytime anyone says anything or they don't want me in front of their house I leave and just move on, no fuss. This has only happened to me twice. Usually people are interested and curious and glad to see what I am doing. I have always thought of hunting the trench after the removal of the slabs as "public property" since after all I can walk on a sidewalk anytime anywhere. What do you all think?
 
Sounds like you got yourself either a loophole or a gray area. I would lean towards trespassing as you would have a right to walk through, but not dig on private property.
 
I have hunted side walk tear out's for years, but recently was questioned about this. Keep in mind anytime anyone says anything or they don't want me in front of their house I leave and just move on, no fuss. This has only happened to me twice. Usually people are interested and curious and glad to see what I am doing. I have always thought of hunting the trench after the removal of the slabs as "public property" since after all I can walk on a sidewalk anytime anywhere. What do you all think?

I would tend to agree with you. And handle it the same way you have.
 
I've hunted the areas between the sidewalks and streets in my town for a couple of years.

I always leave if anyone asks me to because I know that even though it is public property the area is maintained by the property owner.

I even had someone call the cops on me once instead of asking me to leave.

When the cop arrived, he agreed with me that I was on public property.

I did tell the officer that I would move on down the sidewalk since that person had a problem with me being there though.

I would think hunting the areas under the sidewalks would be the same.
 
The property owner owns the dirt under the sidewalk. The city usually has a right of way easement to build and maintain a sidewalk accross private property. The right of way easement gives everyone the right to cross the private property on a public sidewalk. The ground under the sidewalk and out to the center of the street is private property, that is why they can make assessments to the property owner when the street is rebuilt. If it was public property the owner couldn't be charged when they rebuild the street in front of his house. I don't think you have the right to dig in the dirt under the sidewalk without permission. I would ask the home owner first. Most will probably give you the go ahead and then you wouldn't have to worry. That's what I would do.:goodluck:
 
even though

im gonna say this , first im going to say that its best to ALWAYS ask permission. having said that i know for fact that you can go anywhere even private property if there is not a no trespassing sign posted. Talked to several police officers about this and they all agreed that its best to ask permission but you cannot get into trouble , at least the first time you do it, if there is no trespassing signs up. You may be a jerk if you do it :lol: but at least u wont get fined . HH
 
im gonna say this , first im going to say that its best to ALWAYS ask permission. having said that i know for fact that you can go anywhere even private property if there is not a no trespassing sign posted. Talked to several police officers about this and they all agreed that its best to ask permission but you cannot get into trouble , at least the first time you do it, if there is no trespassing signs up. You may be a jerk if you do it :lol: but at least u wont get fined . HH

I still say its better to be safe than sorry.

In about half of the states posting is not required to prevent trespassing; that is, it is against the law for a person metal detecting or someone hunting to trespass on private property without the landowner's permission even if the land is not posted. Where posting is required, some states have laws specifying how to post land. In some states, trespass while in possession of a firearm is a FELONY punishable by IMPRISONMENT for up to five years and/or a fine up to $5,000. Most people metal detecting don't carry firearms but some do. So find out where your state stands on this issue and then decide if you are willing to take the risk. Even if your state allows you to trespass on private property not posted if enough land owners get mad and call their congressmen metal detecting might be outlawed every where. Is that worth the risk?
 
im gonna say this , first im going to say that its best to ALWAYS ask permission. having said that i know for fact that you can go anywhere even private property if there is not a no trespassing sign posted. Talked to several police officers about this and they all agreed that its best to ask permission but you cannot get into trouble , at least the first time you do it, if there is no trespassing signs up. You may be a jerk if you do it :lol: but at least u wont get fined . HH

I always get permission to go on private property, whether posted or not. I guess I just never thought of the sidewalk as private property. I will probably not hunt in these areas anymore without asking.
 
The property owner owns the dirt under the sidewalk. The city usually has a right of way easement to build and maintain a sidewalk accross private property. The right of way easement gives everyone the right to cross the private property on a public sidewalk. The ground under the sidewalk and out to the center of the street is private property, that is why they can make assessments to the property owner when the street is rebuilt. If it was public property the owner couldn't be charged when they rebuild the street in front of his house. I don't think you have the right to dig in the dirt under the sidewalk without permission. I would ask the home owner first. Most will probably give you the go ahead and then you wouldn't have to worry. That's what I would do.:goodluck:

Thanks for this information and clarity on the subject, I will be changing my approach from now on to ask first or not even bother. There are plenty of other places to metal detect and its not worth giving the wrong impression.
 
The property owner owns the dirt under the sidewalk. The city usually has a right of way easement to build and maintain a sidewalk accross private property. The right of way easement gives everyone the right to cross the private property on a public sidewalk. The ground under the sidewalk and out to the center of the street is private property, that is why they can make assessments to the property owner when the street is rebuilt. If it was public property the owner couldn't be charged when they rebuild the street in front of his house. I don't think you have the right to dig in the dirt under the sidewalk without permission. I would ask the home owner first. Most will probably give you the go ahead and then you wouldn't have to worry. That's what I would do.:goodluck:

This is a true statement. I used to work for a municpal appraiser and taxable acrage is calculated to a certain point in the road and not to the curb. You can always try a humerous approach with the property owner and ask if you can play in the rubble. These areas are 15-20 minutes tops. I'm a little lucky, the road I live on is being dug out for about 1.5 miles. Nothing like a local walk in the dirt :)
 
im gonna say this , first im going to say that its best to ALWAYS ask permission. having said that i know for fact that you can go anywhere even private property if there is not a no trespassing sign posted. Talked to several police officers about this and they all agreed that its best to ask permission but you cannot get into trouble , at least the first time you do it, if there is no trespassing signs up. You may be a jerk if you do it :lol: but at least u wont get fined . HH

Signs or not you CAN be arrested for trespassing on private property. Depending on the property owner.

I live on 65 acres, I have it fenced,if anyone trespasses they do not pass go.. they go directly to jail.. If they try to steal from my orchards I let my dogs have at them..:lol:

But in the case of this original post, they were detecting on public easements, I think maybe the home owner(s) were just concerned with someone out in front of thier house. You may want to check city ordnances to make sure the property owner has no rights to the land prior to detecting there.

I know of one case in town where a lady tripped over a raised spot of cement broker her ankle and sued (and won) the property owner for lack of maintenance on the sidewalk...:(
so liability for injuries could be a concern for the property owners.
 
I know of one case in town where a lady tripped over a raised spot of cement broker her ankle and sued (and won) the property owner for lack of maintenance on the sidewalk...:(
so liability for injuries could be a concern for the property owners.

This is also true. In WI, all property owners are responsible for public sidewalk. Most of the time when it becomes an issue is in winter. If a person slips on ice and sustains injury on your sidewalk, it's an easy win plus the city can fine you on top of that.

In your case above, it probably wasn't the injured's idea to sue. Maybe a personal attourney or insurance agent who suggested it due to a larger knowlege of city ordnances.
 
Signs or not you CAN be arrested for trespassing on private property. Depending on the property owner.
Such laws do vary state to state. I believe in Pennsylvania it must be posted, though if a person is caught on private (unposted) property, they cannot be arrested the first time. The second time, they can, as they are aware it's private.
Stupid way to do it, any fool knows that somebody owns it, and it's not them.:roll:

I had a case a few years ago where I owned a four unit rental building, and I occupied one of the units. Someone who was not a tenant parked in my driveway. In my driveway, and went to a local church fair, fundraiser, or somesuch. When I called the police to have the offending vehicle towed, they said they couldn't as the property was not posted every "x" number of feet, with a "no parking " sign, that they couldn't do anything.
"Imagine that, I said, next time I need to park in town, I'll just select some driveway and park my car in it?"
"Yeah, prettymuch.." the cop replied.

Nevermind that whomsoever parked the car, was also "trespassing" when they got out of it.

Basic rule of thumb, if it isn't yours, and not "public", ya need permission.
 
never thought to try a sidewalk and i see lots of ppl have experience detecting them.. can anyone tell me how much stuff is found along sidewalks and sways?
 
never thought to try a sidewalk and i see lots of ppl have experience detecting them.. can anyone tell me how much stuff is found along sidewalks and sways?

Not as much as you would think, decent targets are typically few and far between.
 
[QUOTE Someone who was not a tenant parked in my driveway. In my driveway, and went to a local church fair, fundraiser, or somesuch. When I called the police to have the offending vehicle towed, they said they couldn't as the property was not posted every "x" number of feet, with a "no parking " sign, that they couldn't do anything.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you should have gotten out some paint and repainted the car for them! Just tell them "Hey, there were no signs posted on your car saying painting is not allowed!"
 
not in pa

Signs or not you CAN be arrested for trespassing on private property. Depending on the property owner.

I live on 65 acres, I have it fenced,if anyone trespasses they do not pass go.. they go directly to jail.. If they try to steal from my orchards I let my dogs have at them..:lol:

But in the case of this original post, they were detecting on public easements, I think maybe the home owner(s) were just concerned with someone out in front of thier house. You may want to check city ordnances to make sure the property owner has no rights to the land prior to detecting there.

I know of one case in town where a lady tripped over a raised spot of cement broker her ankle and sued (and won) the property owner for lack of maintenance on the sidewalk...:(
so liability for injuries could be a concern for the property owners.

maybe in the state your from but not in pa. Its written in some weird statute . A few of my friends were cited for trespassing because of dirtbiking, they went to court told the judge there were no signs up , and lo and behold the judge said oh yeah hey there is nothing u did wrong, case dismissed. I love PA :D plus we have tons of colonial crap burried all around here. There is a story about an old stage coach that buried a box full of guns on the mnt across from my house. Im gonna start trying to search for that bad boy!!!!

Getting permission is always the best!!!!
 
Maybe you should have gotten out some paint and repainted the car for them! Just tell them "Hey, there were no signs posted on your car saying painting is not allowed!"


When I caught the vehicle owners getting into their car, I politely told them that it was private property, and to please not park there (here)........
They replied, "Oh, we know the owner"........
I said, "oh really now???? I'm the owner."

They then said that I couldn't keep them from parking there, since no signs were posted, and I replied, with a big grin, :D " Well, no, but I won't be held liable for any damage to your vehicle while it is parked on my property.

I bought and posted signs the next day.
 
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