Newbie - worried I won't be able to dig...

-andrew-

New Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Messages
12
Hi all,

New here. After posting some questions in the main forum in my "hello"
post, I found this section and realized it was more appropriate.

Erased most of my original post and am putting this here instead.. sorry for the length:
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At the end of last summer, I called the Township to inquire about metal detecting in our town's parks, and they said it would be fine. This morning, however, in anticipation of going around town with the kids (once the ground softens up a bit!), I was browsing around this forum and found someone referring to "e-code", online township codes, which I looked up, and unfortunately found this language:

"No person in a public park or recreation area shall: ...

Dig or remove any soil, rock, sand, stones, wood or wood materials or make any excavation by tool, equipment, blasting or other means except with written authorization of the Township."

Which rules out detecting without written permission.

So, as silly as it may be to admit (though, I guess not to this crowd) I feel a little upset at the idea of possibly not being able to meaningfully participate in my own home town. The kids are excited - but if I can't use it in the town where I live, I'm returning it. I really, really, really don't want to have to do that.

So, the plan is to contact the township tomorrow. I saw someone recommended not calling but showing up in person, which is tough because I don't work nearby... but I gladly do so if it means getting written permission!
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Any advice is greatly appreciated!

thanks,
Andrew
 
I know a friend who lives in a town with a lot of Native American history and you can not dig anywhere. You can however sift the sand at playgrounds, and move loose topsoil. That may not make it fun to detect however.

Definately go in person and find out if there is any way for you to detect.

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH Fierce using Tapatalk
 
You said you already contacted the town and they said it would be fine. Do you know the name of the person you spoke with?? Dont say ANYTHING about looking up the "codes" You called, They (person on the phone) said it would be fine so just do it until you are told no. Just be really careful of how you dig your plugs and pick up trash on the surface. Dont walk past cans/bottles or paper and the like just because you're not digging it. If there are trash cans where you detect empty out all your trash into that so people can SEE you doing just that. Cleaning up the parks. :p When you can, dont use your shovel. You can use a large (16" or so) straight edge screw driver to pop out most things less than 3" down with ease and very small holes that you can just press back together. Until you are told NO, You have already been told yes. DONT play smart enough to look card. JMHO.
 
You said you already contacted the town and they said it would be fine. Do you know the name of the person you spoke with?? Dont say ANYTHING about looking up the "codes" You called, They (person on the phone) said it would be fine so just do it until you are told no. Just be really careful of how you dig your plugs and pick up trash on the surface. Dont walk past cans/bottles or paper and the like just because you're not digging it. If there are trash cans where you detect empty out all your trash into that so people can SEE you doing just that. Cleaning up the parks. :p When you can, dont use your shovel. You can use a large (16" or so) straight edge screw driver to pop out most things less than 3" down with ease and very small holes that you can just press back together. Until you are told NO, You have already been told yes. DONT play smart enough to look card. JMHO.

ya man just go do it...seriously i have ONE old park to hunt by me. Ive had a couple of poeple try to tell me I cant hunt there...Guess what Ive been doin it 3 years now and never had a problem...

Just go and do it. The worst that will happen is that they will tell you to leave...Most the people I run into at the park wanna talk and see if I found anything.

Just go and youl be fine
 
Here is my thoughts Andrew:

I had a run in with local law enforcement in my town, everything was civil, and I did not get ticketed, but it really shook me up (I consider myself a pretty ethical person).

Now I'm hyper paranoid about getting in trouble, or breaking some unknown ordnance, or god only knows what else (I guess its better to by hyper then hypo paranoid!)

So no I'm super scared to detect in city parks, or anything else of that sort.

A) State parks in my state allow detecting on all beaches..so I hit those up. These are also fun for kids since they can play in the sand.
B) any public waterways (this can include creeks and streams) fall under the law of navigability, meaning you can essentially do whatever you want, no one can 'own' them as long as you are not obstructing others. The law of navigability states that navigable waterways (again, this CAN even mean creeks) are public land up to the high water mark..which means you can hunt any sandy beaches along rivers)..furthermore older settlements were ALWAYS near rivers or creeks!
C) the best, best, best place to detect is on private property, that you get permission to detect on. Network with close friends and hit up their yards. Seriously, these are best. No one will bother you, and you can have fun with the kids.
D) you said only in your township you found these laws? Townships are usually very small (the city I live in boarders on 4 or 5 townships), just go over to the next township over?

But, honestly, if your connected in your hometown, just get permission to hunt private property...your finds will be 100000000X better.

Good luck!
 
Hi everyone,

thanks for the words of advice.

I'll definitely be careful about this and plan to go by the code, and probably bring a copy with me :)

Points taken about digging equipment and not making much of a scene.

I think, honestly, that any regulations about digging aren't really to stop metal detecting or similar (relatively) non-destructive activities, but rather perhaps to stop people from digging up plants, sod, removing large rocks, and generally "defacing" public property.

We will absolutely leave areas with trash we find and, in fact, my daughter informed me that in Girl Scouts they specifically address largely the same idea of leaving properties "better than they were" when you arrived.

I will also seek out property owners for sure, there are plenty of places around that are virtually abandoned or in very low use, including some old farmlands and places there were once houses.

Ok, I'm feeling a -little- better now :)

Thanks again everyone.

Andrew
 
I think a lot of cities have that same type language in their ordinances. I have been hunting in my park for years and have never been approached by the police and told that I couldn't. In fact they have seen me out there numerous times and just waved and smiled. I have even been asked by officers if I am finding anything. A couple of weeks ago, I was hunting near the basketball court and a guy dressed in street clothes came near me and said "you know we have an ordinance against that don't you. I explained to him that I have hunted that park for years and Have never done any damage to the park in fact, I have helped the City keep in clean. I demonstrated for him how I recovered targets and he said to me " I don't have a problem with you detecting as long as you cover up your holes. I just wanted to tell you in case the police said anything. I joked around with him and said don't worry, the squirrels around here leave holes but I don't. He kinda laughed and left. I have never had any problems since.
 
I was worried once last season as a police officer walked over to me at the playground I was killing it at . He told me someone {local busybody] had reported that I was digging up the park and he had to check it out. I also leave the area cleaner than when I got there and showed him my bag of junk that I had picked up . he looked at the spots I had retrieved items from and said if that is what I do than he was fine with me detecting . He also said he would love to get into detecting one day and departed with a smile and a good luck wish, so be nice , pick up all junk and don't sweet it and Have fun!!
 
The key part of the statement is "without Permission". Sounded to me you may well be able to detect and remove coins and such, they just want to know about it in advance. It was a rule most likely written to make it improper to make larger excavations that you will never make. This e statement makes it illegal to hit golf balls in the park, if doing so removes soil. Most likely not the intent of the rule.

Make a copy of the statement and at your first opportunity go to the people who wrote it. Explain what you would like to do, and ask for a simple and short permission slip to do it. If the answer is no, well then, there is always private land. They can't stop that, certainly not with a simple e statement.
 
Thanks everyone.

After speaking with a few people, I believe that this is indeed primarily designed to help prevent damage to public property as well as removal or shifting of significant material.

I will look into this a bit further.

regards
Andrew
 
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Andrew, such verbage exists in every single city everywhere. Maybe not in that exact words, but at least stuff that forbids "altering" or "defacing" or "vandalism", etc... So don't think for a minute that it's "just this city". And as you surmise, such verbage predates metal detectors. To .... of course,.... stop someone from thinking he can cut down trees, or harvest the turf to put in his own yard at home, etc.....

You can see you're getting various ends of the spectrum of answers. From "just go, no one will care", (and even to the point where visiting cops agreed , so long as they're not making a mess, etc...).

The other end of the spectrum tells you to go get that "written permission" to "dig" (and "blast" and "remove", etc... :))

The trouble with this is you might get told "no" by some desk-bound bureaucrat, who might never have cared or noticed ........ TILL you asked. Ie.: the "pressing question" psychology.

All such verbage inherently implies the END result. In other words, as long as you leave no trace, then technically you have not alterED, defacED, or vandalizED anything, now have you? Yes the word "dig" is trouble-some, and yes you can go knock yourself silly grovelling at city halls if you like. But the reality of the situation is, that as long as you're not being a nuisance, leaving scars/holes, well .....

Another downside to going and asking, is that once someone there tells you "no", then guess what happens when that same city person sees another md'r in the park later? Who perhaps he'd never have taken a second glance at. And who perhaps has md'd the parks there for years: they'll remember your earlier inquiry, and think: "aha! there's one of THEM" and start booting others. I've seen this happen before :mad:

So just pick low traffic times, practice on very shallow coins at first (requiring only a slit and wriggle coins out with a flat screw-driver).
 
Newbie... worried I wont be able todig

I am currently digging a private property that once was an institution in 1903. I was told by other detorists that they tried and never could get permission to hunt. They went to administrators of the property and were told NO.

On the other hand, (same property) I went to the office of Property Management and Maintenance and asked for permission to hunt. The person in charge is knowledgeable about detecting and not only gave me permission, but told me about old dump areas on the property and offered me a hard hat with the property name on it in case I was approached. So far so good. No one has bothered me.

There is a childcare facility on the grounds with a big totlot, and I have been searching it all last week with no problems. I guess its just who you ask. Who you know, not what you know. However, not much in valuable finds.
 
Thanks again everyone.

I've spoken with a few locals, and, indeed, the primary wording is for preventing destruction of property, holes/pits, and unauthorized removal of turf and plants, etc. Apparently, it happens...

The local police and park employees are far more concerned with some vandalism that has taken place including the breaking of park vending machines and damaging fences, as well as breaking ball washers and other equipment/markers on a local golf course.

From what I understand, if someone actually wants to help -improve- the park by helping to clean up, you're far more likely to gain a few friends in the police and parks departments.... looks like we're in pretty good shape :)
 
Even if you couldnt detect the parks there are usually plenty of other places in your town or area that you can. So many people get hung up on the parks but in reality these are usually the most heavily hunted places in town and they have been for years , making most of them not worth your frustration over not being able to hunt them. There is almost always other sites with even more potential than the parks.

My city parks have the same wording in the rules and i have detected them thinking they couldnt possibly mean what i do when detecting....only to get caught and told that the rules shure do include digging coins from the ground and told not to do it anymore. I wouldnt go ask for clarification in this instance , you will likely be told the rules say you cant do it. Since someone already told you it was ok i would just go ahead and do it until stopped by somebody and then apologize stating somebody said you could.
 
Has anyone here actually gotten a real ticket for metal detecting? If I do go to a public park in the early hours of the morning how likely do you think it would be for someone to call the police? On youtube I see most people detecting parks with no one there but public land near me is usually pretty busy at all hours of the day. What do you say to the police if they do show up? I haven't looked up any thing about my city but I'm pretty sure every city in my area (and probably most cities in the country) has something on the books so that if someone decides to tear up a field with shovel they can be charged with something; which technically speaking would also cover metal detecting. Also, people who have been told to stop by police, have you continued to detect and gotten talked to by police again at a later date without incident?
 
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Has anyone here actually gotten a real ticket for metal detecting? If I do go to a public park in the early hours of the morning how likely do you think it would be for someone to call the police? On youtube I see most people detecting parks with no one there but public land near me is usually pretty busy at all hours of the day. What do you say to the police if they do show up? I haven't looked up any thing about my city but I'm pretty sure every city in my area (and probably most cities in the country) has something on the books so that if someone decides to tear up a field with shovel they can be charged with something; which technically speaking would also cover metal detecting. Also, people who have been told to stop by police, have you continued to detect and gotten talked to by police again at a later date without incident?

paper, you're covering a lot of ground, asking a lot of questions, and they're all good questions. However, like anything that involves, rules, laws, and police, you can bet the answer is going to be "it depends". I mean, one cop could "throw the book at you" (rough you up, ticket you, etc...) for a tail-light out, or going 55 in a 56. While others (and in most all cases) you will be ignored, only warned, etc... (they have bigger fish to fry, people doing 75, etc...). So does that mean: "Gee, I can go 56?" or "Gee, I don't have to fix the tail-light?" well, you can see how that can't given a flat one-size-fits-all answer.

If ever you hear of tickets or arrests or confiscations for metal detecting (because yes, some scary stories/links have been floated), you will notice that most of them are bound to be for people night-sneaking obvious sensitive historic monuments, or someone who couldn't take a warning, etc... Or if it WAS at a place where someone was waltzing around "and simply didn't know any better" (wasn't aware that it was "sensitive" or "federal" or "state" etc...) it's invariably a beginner who just isn't wise to the obvious protocols. So to answer your question, and reduce it to the point where it's none-of-the-above. And is just regular run of the mill city parks, for a person who is not being obnoxious, and is being discreet and not "sticking out" drawing attention (waltzing over beach blankets at high noon): No, I don't know of tickets for such things. At worst a "scram".

On the 2nd part of your question, about simply going back at later times: Yes, I have. When/if I felt that the cop was simply answering a busy-bodies call (but who, himself, could care less), then sure, I let the place "cool off", and do not consider isolated incidents to be some form of new all-encompassing "rule" from then on. But that's just me.
 
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