Friendly Metal Detecting Forums   TreasureMntDetectors
List all sponsors

Go Back   Friendly Metal Detecting Forums > Metal Detecting > Caches, Old Bottles, and other Treasures

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09-03-2011, 08:09 AM
Charlives Charlives is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OZARKS View Post
That's why I never find anything...at...all..ever...
Thought I found something once but turned out to be a hot rock.
Reply With Quote


  #22  
Old 09-03-2011, 08:25 AM
joee5's Avatar
joee5 joee5 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 5,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OZARKS View Post
Most courts in the United States that have addressed the question of treasure trove rule that it goes to the finder.



The doctrine is recognized in Arkansas,
32Connecticut,33 Delaware,34 Georgia,35 Indiana,36 Iowa,37 Maine,38 Maryland,39 New York,40 Ohio,41 Oregon,42 and Wisconsin.


Those are finders keepers states! Viva Arkansas



Of course New Jersey would be excluded.

__________________
EXCAL,Cibola,Lesche,HFPP, GarrettPP,Handmade scoop
'13Coin-988Clad79.75-S2-G1 Since 2011Coin-4619 Clad346.68-S31G6

Reply With Quote


  #23  
Old 09-03-2011, 09:23 PM
Fornax's Avatar
Fornax Fornax is offline
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Louis MO
Posts: 234
Default

You guys find stuff with your MD's?
Reply With Quote


  #24  
Old 09-06-2011, 10:09 AM
dave. s dave. s is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: hartford,mi
Posts: 41
Default

yep found a 5ft fence in my back yard (with my 4 head that is) ,swingin along next thing i knew i'm on my knee,then heard my neighbor say u find something ,i said yup but its no double eagle(more likea egg).so kinda found it with the mder

__________________
bounty hunter 101,oldiest coin 1874 ihp

Reply With Quote


  #25  
Old 09-06-2011, 04:50 PM
Frediraz's Avatar
Frediraz Frediraz is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: WI
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhorn1913 View Post
Obviously the new guy here -

Just an observation, but addressing replies 9-11 above - isn't it OUR responsibility to lean on the politicians? Certainly it is a vested interest of the detector manufacturers, but for every company who makes them, aren't there hundreds of dealers selling them, & thousands of detectorists using them? I'm not trying to pick a fight, but we Americans have gotten too accustomed to saying, "Hey, shouldn't SOMEONE do sumpin' about this problem?" when that someone is looking at us from the mirror? Isn't than why our economy, & our entire nation, in the mess they are?

I'll shut up now, 'cause I'm looking forward to spending time here, & learnin' a little sumpin' (don't wanna burn ALL my bridges on the first day...).

Peace,
Matt

I agree...either way we need the support of individuals and dealers. I would love to have a location on this site where individuals can go to get information on whom to contact regarding letting their voice be heard on metal detecting laws. However, I am surprised that the larger detector dealers haven't made an effort to support or increase detectorist's rights (at least not to my knowledge, but I could be missing something).
Reply With Quote


  #26  
Old 09-08-2011, 09:00 AM
Surf Master's Avatar
Surf Master Surf Master is online now
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,604
Talking Pirate law way

I like Texas laws,i do thing's my way,the u know who,want's a cut in everything,well guess what,i think they have got enough out of me over the years,and the Pirate law way is best,i will forget i have seen this post,and if i do hit the jackpot,it will be mine.
Reply With Quote


  #27  
Old 09-21-2011, 03:21 PM
mtnbikur mtnbikur is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberborikua View Post
I thought this article could be of interest to treasure hunters, especially metal detectorists finding trove of coins.

http://www.muenzgeschichte.ch/downloads/laws-usa.pdf

HH, Cyber
Okay, can someone(that's NOT a lawyer), tell me why it takes 14 pages to say "Finders Keepers"???
Reply With Quote


  #28  
Old 09-21-2011, 03:33 PM
Bigpoppa's Avatar
Bigpoppa Bigpoppa is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South of the Northpole
Posts: 2,342
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbikur View Post
Okay, can someone(that's NOT a lawyer), tell me why it takes 14 pages to say "Finders Keepers"???
Lawyers got get paid...

Welcome to America

__________________
Excal Year #4 Begins 9-10-14...FMDF Gold Coin Club Co-Founder... "Eventus stultorum magister"

Reply With Quote


  #29  
Old 09-21-2011, 05:11 PM
Mike1961's Avatar
Mike1961 Mike1961 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,944
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbikur View Post
Okay, can someone(that's NOT a lawyer), tell me why it takes 14 pages to say "Finders Keepers"???
Because its the Federal Government.

__________________
Fisher F2 2011 Totals Clad $120.21 Silver $0.25 Silver Ring 1 Jewelry 3 Gold Jewelry 2
2012 Totals Clad $14.99 Silver Coins 2 Bad season, we had a drought.

Reply With Quote


  #30  
Old 09-21-2011, 05:24 PM
~Alan~'s Avatar
~Alan~ ~Alan~ is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: S.E.England
Posts: 4,661
Default

The UK treasure laws work pretty well over here. With the interests of both
the detectorist and land owner catered for. The treasure items being
available for the general public to see, when they go on display in a museum.

__________________
Tecknetiks T2 with 13" Detech Ultimate coil
Goldmaxx XP Power

Reply With Quote


  #31  
Old 09-21-2011, 10:01 PM
DirtyHarry's Avatar
DirtyHarry DirtyHarry is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 251
Default

Ohio ok, but they are very picky when it comes to historic sites. I'd just work around them on private prop.

Yeah dont ask dont tell....I find-I keep.

__________________
Omega 8000 Driver

Reply With Quote


  #32  
Old 09-21-2011, 11:04 PM
Texaspast Texaspast is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbikur View Post
Okay, can someone(that's NOT a lawyer), tell me why it takes 14 pages to say "Finders Keepers"???
Well, I apologize for being a lawyer, but 'finders keepers' is not the law. Das why. If someone asked me as a client, I would have to say 'it depends on what state you are in'. And this article isn't something I would stake my, uh..., fortune on. There is no "U.S. Law" on found property. Every state has its own law. Generally stated, it depends on if it was lost, abandoned, or hidden and forgotten (that's not the same as 'lost'). The rules are different for each, and each state may be different. And if you find it on state or federal land, all bets are off. If you find it on federal land, and some state land, be ready to be arrested, have you home searched, and everything that even looks old confiscated. I am not at all exaggerating. I had two clients that this happened to - searching in a federally owned forest, with verbal permission from the local forest manager. Didn't matter a hill of beans to the federal prosecutor. They said it was a violation of the Antiquities Act - which only applied to sites over 100 years old. Even though it could be proven from historical documents that the town (old lumbering town inside a now-federal forest) had not been founded more than 90 years before, it took two years and a lot of trouble to finally get the metal detectorists' possessions that had been confiscated by the feds during a home search. The feds wanted them to plead guilty to a misdemeanor trespassing charge. Even though they had permission. Lessons to be learned: 1. Don't metal detect on federal land, even with permission. 2. Don't trust any fed that says he/she has authority to give permission to metal detect on federal land - and if you do, you'd better have it in writing and signed. Won't help you, necessarily, but might get the 'permission giver' fired if you go down.
Reply With Quote


  #33  
Old 09-21-2011, 11:08 PM
OZARKS OZARKS is offline
Civ In The Pock
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ozark Mts
Posts: 5,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaspast View Post
I had two clients that this happened to - searching in a federally owned forest, with verbal permission from the local forest manager. Didn't matter a hill of beans to the federal prosecutor. They said it was a violation of the Antiquities Act - which only applied to sites over 100 years old.
The Antiquities Act was struck down in 1974 because the term “antiquity” was unconstitutionally vague.

83 It was replaced by the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (ARPA), which applies to all archaeological resources that are more than one hundred years old.


Thus why they "The feds wanted them to plead guilty to a misdemeanor trespassing charge. Even though they had permission." because they couldn't enforce the antiquities act. They were tresspassing on federal land...

In my state finders keepers is the law, as well as

Most courts in the United States that have addressed the question of treasure trove rule that it goes to the finder. The doctrine is recognized in Arkansas,32 Connecticut,33 Delaware,34 Georgia,35 Indiana,36 Iowa,37 Maine,38 Maryland,39 New York,40 Ohio,41 Oregon,42 and Wisconsin.
Reply With Quote


  #34  
Old 09-21-2011, 11:25 PM
OZARKS OZARKS is offline
Civ In The Pock
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ozark Mts
Posts: 5,005
Default

http://www.indiana.edu/~arch/saa/mat...cra_mod02.html

The punitive provision of the Antiquities Act was successfully challenged in the case of U.S. v. Diaz, 368 F.Supp. 856 (D. Ariz. 1973), reversed in 1974, 499 F2d. 113 (9th Cir. 1974). The uncertainties resulting from this decision led to efforts to create a new, comprehensive law to protect archaeological resources on federal lands. The result was the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979.

VII. Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979, as amended
A. Background: Until ARPA, protection of archaeological resources on public lands was limited to the provisions of the Antiquities Act of 1906 and relevant portions of other existing laws, such as NHPA. But prosecutions and convictions of looters under the Antiquities Act were extremely limited, and by 1974 U.S. v. Diaz had resulted in the punitive provisions of the Act being ruled unconstitutional in the states of the Ninth Circuit. Clearly a new law was needed. ARPA was amended in 1988.
B. Essential provisions of ARPA:
1) Archaeological resources on public lands owned by the United States.
2) It is illegal to disturb, destroy, or remove archaeological resources on public lands. Penalty provisions may go as high as $250,000 for individuals or $500,000 for organizations, as well as up to two years incarceration.
3. Permits for research and investigation must be obtained from the federal land manager or Indian tribe.
4. Federa agencies are required to develop plans for surveying their lands that are not scheduled for development projects and for developing public awareness programs.

Just providing a source for my claim I'm not a lawyer like you though, so ...
Reply With Quote


  #35  
Old 09-22-2011, 12:03 AM
Texaspast Texaspast is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 270
Default

I 'shorthanded' this reference to the 'Antiquities Act.' The reason they wanted them to plead was because they had no case, but they did have the husband's grandfather's gold watch, all the silver coins in their coin collection, their numerous metal detectors, etc. - and a lot of other things I don't remember since it was 1994. The town was founded in 1904, so anything associated with the town couldn't possibly be over 90 years old when found. The feds finally, after a long, extended process, gave all their stuff back. My clients agreed not to ever go in that federal forest again with a metal detector. BTW - I was also the president of the local metal detectorist (then called 'treasure hunting') club. I had also been out there on the site at an earlier time. The real 'pusher' behind the feds was the area archeologist. There was not ANY possibility that anything of any archeological value would be lost, as it was a fairly recent site, had been clear-cut several times, bulldozed, leveled, etc. - nothing was in its original location. On top of that, there were maps of the town showing where everything was. The archeologists are VERY protective of their 'territory.' They don't care if artifacts are never found, as long as nobody but themselves find it.
Reply With Quote


  #36  
Old 10-04-2011, 11:59 PM
Mainelypulltab's Avatar
Mainelypulltab Mainelypulltab is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: North East
Posts: 29
Default

Most likely it would help if we the detectorists and the manufacturer's both leaned on the politicians. We are already at the point where representatives do not really represent us anymore(least here in Maine anyway). The least they could do is help us out. I have been planning to contact my reps but want to make sure I have as much information as possible prior to contacting them. Won't take long but do want to research and have to wait until hunting season is over, two more months most likely. Maybe we should agree on what topics we want to address on a National level or should we slug it out at the state level? HH!

__________________
V3i, Excal II, Bounty Hunter,
Happy Hunting Ya'll!

Reply With Quote


  #37  
Old 10-05-2011, 04:48 AM
~Alan~'s Avatar
~Alan~ ~Alan~ is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: S.E.England
Posts: 4,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaspast View Post
Well, I apologize for being a lawyer, but
'finders keepers' is not the law. .
So I take it that as in the UK, in the US all land belongs to someone ?
Whether it be a private individual, a company, school authority, or a local
council etc.....

__________________
Tecknetiks T2 with 13" Detech Ultimate coil
Goldmaxx XP Power

Reply With Quote


  #38  
Old 10-05-2011, 05:09 AM
robby4570's Avatar
robby4570 robby4570 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Freeport, Panama City Beach, Santa Rosa Beach Florida
Posts: 3,386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Alan~ View Post
The UK treasure laws work pretty well over here. With the interests of both
the detectorist and land owner catered for. The treasure items being
available for the general public to see, when they go on display in a museum.
<<<Unnecessary political remark removed by Admin>>>... you found it, now you gotta SHARE it with everyone just because. Huh? No, we realized you did all the work but give up the goods!

Not me buddy! If I worked for it, and you didn't, it's mine not yours!

__________________
ACE250/DD, Surf PI Pro, Sovereign Elite, and Finally, an E-Trac!!!


Last edited by Rudy; 10-05-2011 at 11:24 AM. Reason: Removed "Sounds like socialism at it's greatest"
Reply With Quote


  #39  
Old 10-05-2011, 05:42 PM
~Alan~'s Avatar
~Alan~ ~Alan~ is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: S.E.England
Posts: 4,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robby4570 View Post
<<<Unnecessary political remark removed by Admin>>>... you found it, now you gotta SHARE it with everyone just because. Huh? No, we realized you did all the work but give up the goods!

Not me buddy! If I worked for it, and you didn't, it's mine not yours!
We mustn't confuse Treasure with other finds. Treasure finds have to be
declared by law in the UK. Non treasure finds don't.
What is, and is not treasure, is clearly defined.

If for instance you employed a gardener, and they found a box of buried
coins, with a value of say $10,000 in one of your flower beds.
Would you say "well done buddy, finders keepers" ? I doubt it

__________________
Tecknetiks T2 with 13" Detech Ultimate coil
Goldmaxx XP Power

Reply With Quote


  #40  
Old 10-05-2011, 11:06 PM
scash's Avatar
scash scash is offline
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S.E. Missouri
Posts: 158
Default

they would have to pry it out of my cold dead hands.
Reply With Quote


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lucked into what may be a treasure trove!! Rather-B-Huntin Research and Getting Permission 3 11-02-2013 12:39 PM
Treasure Trove Laws iturbe Caches, Old Bottles, and other Treasures 16 10-09-2010 01:55 AM
The Slow Death of Treasure Trove Law in the US Rudy Caches, Old Bottles, and other Treasures 20 08-24-2010 12:12 PM
Treasure Trove? dan Research and Getting Permission 44 04-19-2010 11:35 PM
Treasure Trove Laws ?? grubbydug Caches, Old Bottles, and other Treasures 3 04-28-2007 09:34 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.