Ancient Roman Helmet to be auctioned by Christies

Crazy Ivan · Sep 13, 2010

Associated Press.
....Considered an extraordinary example of Roman metalwork, the mask was discovered in a field in northwestern England by a treasure-hunter with a metal detector. It's scheduled to be auctioned Oct. 7 by Christie's, with a guide price of between $242,000 to $363,000.

The link is reported here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39150821?GT1=43001

Bonesquat · Sep 13, 2010

I bet that knocked his earphones off. I wonder what detector he was using. Sweet find.

Lhollo · Oct 7, 2010

This has just been sold for £2,281,250 ($3,631,750). Not sure who the buyer is yet but they're likely to be a private collector from somewhere other than England (where it was found).

It's sad for us over here. Our stupid treasure laws meant that it wasn't considered to be treasure. We couldn't raise enough funding to keep it here.

Bonesquat · Oct 7, 2010

Wow. If I made that kind of discovery I'd be outta debt finally! :shock:

bigredoggg · Oct 7, 2010

Question //////

Lhollo said:
This has just been sold for £2,281,250 ($3,631,750). Not sure who the buyer is yet but they're likely to be a private collector from somewhere other than England (where it was found).

It's sad for us over here. Our stupid treasure laws meant that it wasn't considered to be treasure. We couldn't raise enough funding to keep it here.

Why was this not considered to be treasure by your laws?
Why couldnt you raise enough money to keep it in England or how do you know it wasnt bought by someone in England? If something sells for that amount of money it should be considered "Treasure" no matter where its from.

Rudy · Oct 7, 2010

Lhollo said:
This has just been sold for £2,281,250 ($3,631,750). Not sure who the buyer is yet but they're likely to be a private collector from somewhere other than England (where it was found).

It's sad for us over here. Our stupid treasure laws meant that it wasn't considered to be treasure. We couldn't raise enough funding to keep it here.

Cheer up Lhollo. Now that the Elgin Marbles are being returned to their rightful place, good Karma will befall the United Kingdom and allow it to keep more of its booty.

Kolby72 · Oct 7, 2010

Rudy said:
Cheer up Lhollo. Now that the Elgin Marbles are being returned to their rightful place, good Karma will befall the United Kingdom and allow it to keep more of its booty.

I see where Lhollo is coming from Germany has the same laws. the govenment does not mind if you detect but if you find something on German soil the govenment takes it. And 90 percent of the time the person who found it gets nothing not even the claim that he or she pulled it from the earth. I know of many cases of people finding significant items and they sell them to a dealer in American or they sell it to a local pawnshop. If the goverment was smart they would work with local MD's so that when something is found the detector doesn't have to worry about getting in trouble or have to pay a fine. They could get a small reward or their name on the display in the museum... I guess that is just wishful thinking...

~Alan~ · Oct 7, 2010

Whoever bought it, it will stay in the UK.

Lhollo · Oct 7, 2010

bigredoggg said:
Why was this not considered to be treasure by your laws?
Why couldnt you raise enough money to keep it in England or how do you know it wasnt bought by someone in England? If something sells for that amount of money it should be considered "Treasure" no matter where its from.

It wasn't considered to be treasure because it isn't more than 10% precious metal. Stupid, isn't it?

The local museum had launched a campaign and managed to raise £100,000 in donations from the public. There was a massive push and children apparently emptied their piggy banks. That unlocked further funding from official bodies, but they were still outbid after it reached the £1,700,000 mark.

I watched the auction live and there were a lot of bidders from other countries. The winning bidder's identity is being kept secret but it actually turns out that he's a private collector from London. So, although it'll stay in the country, it looks as though it'll remain behind closed doors.

They haven't given up all hope of getting it into a museum but it's looking very, very unlikely now.

~Alan~ · Oct 8, 2010

Lhollo said:
.......They haven't given up all hope of getting it into a museum but it's looking very, very unlikely now.

What happens if a foreign buyer now has it, and an export licence isn't
granted ?
Does it get locked away in a bank vault, never to be seen again ?

From what I read (which may be inaccurate). The finder bypassed the
usual procedures that most people adhere to in cases like this.

He excavated it himself, and took it straight to the auction house, who did
the conservation work on it.

There is something strange about this whole story to me. A lot of what I
see and read, just doesn't ring true.

I wonder where it was really found ? (sorry must'nt think like that

)

Lhollo · Oct 8, 2010

~Alan~ said:
What happens if a foreign buyer now has it, and an export licence isn't
granted ?
Does it get locked away in a bank vault, never to be seen again ?

From what I read (which may be inaccurate). The finder bypassed the
usual procedures that most people adhere to in cases like this.

He excavated it himself, and took it straight to the auction house, who did
the conservation work on it.

There is something strange about this whole story to me. A lot of what I
see and read, just doesn't ring true.

I wonder where it was really found ? (sorry must'nt think like that )

This is what Roger Bland, head of the Portable Antiquities Scheme, had to say about the findspot:

"On 30 Aug., after lengthy telephone conversations with Sally, the finder showed Dot Boughton and Stuart Noon, joint Finds Liaison Officers for Cumbria and Lancashire, the findspot in Crosby Garrett. There is still evidence for the hole dug in the ground and the FLOs observe that the field contains traces of earthworks (which of course cannot be dated). The findspot is within 300m of a Roman road. 50 other objects have been recorded by PAS from the parish, including three other Roman finds."

As for what will happen to it - we don't yet know. It depends on whether the buyer is willing to lend it to a museum. The buyer isn't foreign so export licenses aren't an issue - he or she can do whatever they want with it now.

~Alan~ · Oct 8, 2010

It still can't go abroad without a license, as far as I am aware.

So the only evidence of the find spot, is a hole in the ground ?

Most people would have filled the hole in.

Lhollo · Oct 8, 2010

~Alan~ said:
It still can't go abroad without a license, as far as I am aware.

So the only evidence of the find spot, is a hole in the ground ?

Most people would have filled the hole in.

I think he probably did fill the hole in, but the soil had still obviously been disturbed.

The issue of it going abroad isn't really relevant if it's a UK buyer. It's more a case of it being hidden behind closed doors now, rather than being on public display.

~Alan~ · Oct 8, 2010

This article from the website of our Polish "friend" makes interesting
reading.
He may be wrong, he may be right. He is echoing the thoughts of a lot of
people.

http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/2010/09/more-on-crosby-garrett-helmet.html

http://lootingmatters.blogspot.com/2010/10/find-spot-of-crosby-garrett-helmet.html

By declaring the find in the UK, the finders stood to make a lot more
money, without the risk of it being confiscated and having the police
knocking on their door.

Ancient Roman Helmet to be auctioned by Christies

Crazy Ivan

Full Member

Bonesquat

Elite Member

Lhollo

Junior Member

Bonesquat

Elite Member

bigredoggg

Full Member

Rudy

Kolby72

~Alan~

Lhollo

Junior Member

~Alan~

Lhollo

Junior Member

~Alan~

Lhollo

Junior Member

~Alan~

Similar threads