What Detector could assist best with Missing Persons Cases, Deceased?

[Searching4you]

Hello, I have enjoyed basic detecting as a hobby for a while now but it's been a while and my needs have changed and I am not very knowledgeable about newer technology or products. Can anyone advise on what Metal Detector would be the most affective for searching for deceased victims? Each search would certainly be different but my current thoughts would be fairly shallow graves with clothing that may contain metals, such as buttons, zippers, etc. along with dental fillings, jewelry, etc. Any ideas that would help me keep within a shallow budget? Thank you, Searching4you

[TonyinCT]

May I ask why you want to look for decesaed people ?

[Searching4you]

That's a fair question. I'll try and give a short answer as best I can. Our son was killed back in 1985, not as tragically as a lot of children but it affected me very hard. I have been searching for missing children for a little while now and I am hoping that new technology can aid in my search. I have many locations to search for several children from the NY, MA, PA, CT areas with reason to believe some may be located in Central NY attributed to possibly two convicted serial killers. When I conduct physical ground searches it is important to have the right equipment but also "light" equipment as many items are needed for each search. Ground Penetrating Radar is not an option for me. I am not affiliated with any Law Enforcement Agency as most cases I am researching have crossed state lines. I learned long ago that you do not want to cry "wolf" unless you actually see the wolf so it is not reasonable to call in outside help until something solid is developed. That is the short answer for a very complex situation! Thank you, Searching4you

[eagle77]

A metal detector will detect only metal; fillings, buttons, zippers, etc. But that would be like a needle in a haystack. Depending on the level of decomposition, maybe a cadaver dog would be far more useful in that aspect.

Older graves will have sunken into the ground and have a slight depression. Again another needle in a haystack. A secretive grave as you are describing will be very difficult to locate by sight.

You may want to talk to archaeology experts, that would be more into their ballpark I suspect. Good luck in you endeavor.

[rcasi44]

The metal items (buttons)are small targets, how deep would you need to go? Rob

[Firewhiz]

You're almost out of the ballpark for a MD and in the park for a reactive sonar. Somewhat of a glorified fish locator, but nonetheless, they work. They work on the same permise of a MD but the materials they detect are different. Another useful tool, to a point is calling the assessors office for the property/county you are looking to locate. They will have aerial photos that are taken about once a month. It helps for fields/plains when looking for out of the ordinary/differences from previous photo. When all else fails, call around to the sherrif's offices. We have a bear in the air outfitted with a thermal imaging camera/infrared detection system. It cost the county an arm and a leg but is designed for finding underground mary jane plantations. That thing has located more criminals running/lost kids in the woods than anything else that I can think of. The coroner's office has a reactive sonar by us. I'll get some info from them and pass along a brand/make/model/range of depth/price and see if this is what you're looking for.

Bri-

[Carol K]

The Explorer by Minelab works the best in woods and fields

[Searching4you]

Hello All, Thank you for the replies. I'll respond in order received. Okay Eagle77, I have started the cadaver dog approach which is the best approach for what I do as most every case is quite old, 1970-1996, with few exceptions and cadaver dogs can find even ancient graves. Again it's falls back to the crying wolf scenario so we have purchased and are still studying the best manuals for training as we can not call in help until we a fairly accurate target area. That will work for us later down the road, we have already purchased the dogs (border collies) and will have a litter soon. As far as the "archaeology experts" we have taken that a step further and researched Dr. Bill Bass's work the author of "Deaths Acre" and his famous forensic knowledge largely learned from his experiments at "The Body Farm" in Tennessee and Necrosearch's approach and believe they are all extremely valuable. These are all useful and we have some knowledge and tools to aid in that area. Only so much can be carried in to State Forest Land as we are not allowed to use any motorized vehicles. Thanks! Hello rcasi44, there is know way for us to know in advance how deep we would need to go. What we have gathered statistically is that most graves would be very shallow. Thanks! Hello Firewhiz, We do have some Aeriel photos but a lot of the searches are conducted on State Forest Land. Please share with us what you can about the portability of this reactive sonar and any more information you can! We are aware of the new Fish Finders and are very impressed with the ability they have to actually outline shapes which another family is currently using in a water search to locate their son and his car. They were able to prompt a renewed law enforcement search based on the scans that they recorded which showed three cars in one lake. This reactive sonar sounds very interesting. I know the GPR units are quite bulky and would be difficult to bring in and out on foot. Thanks, I look forward to hearing from you. Searching4you

[Searching4you]

Thank you Carol, I'll look up the specs and see what I can find.! Searching4you

Originally Posted by Carol K

The Explorer by Minelab works the best in woods and fields

[wo2e]

yup! a train blood hound. is a smelling machine, they had a few of these dogs during the 911 WTC. and when they pick up a sent they go out of their mind, these are some serious dogs.

[ihatepickles]

My first thought was whether you want to dig all metal targets or would you like a detector that knows the difference between buttons and coins.

Hobbiests generally want detectors with lots of intellegence built in so we don't have to dig up lots of junk. Well, one person's junk is another's treasure.

Also, just to make you aware of the machines features, the best machines detect ~18" into the ground. Anything deeper and you can't really call a particular area completely clear of metal.

[Searching4you]

Bloodhounds are great, as are many other breeds. I'm working on that end now! Thanks

[Searching4you]

Originally Posted by ihatepickles

My first thought was whether you want to dig all metal targets or would you like a detector that knows the difference between buttons and coins.

Hobbiests generally want detectors with lots of intellegence built in so we don't have to dig up lots of junk.! Well, one person's junk is another's treasure.

Also, just to make you aware of the machines features, the best machines detect ~18" into the ground.! Anything deeper and you can't really call a particular area completely clear of metal.

Thanks, sounds like I would have to go for top end equipment. I will look through and see which detectors will go that deep.

[TonyinCT]

You have to remember that there are many factors involved in what the depth of any detector will be. A target at 18" would have to be of greater size than most coins to be detected. The size and style of your search coil , ground mineralization content , the size of the target as well as other factors will contribute to the better or worse depth that is actually realized. It is true that top of the line detectors can be better at finding targets at greater depths , but the detector is more complicated to use and requires a certain amount of knowledge , experience and adjustment. All in all you need to get something you can or are willing to be able to handle to get the job done. If you need any more help please let me know.

[ihatepickles]

Originally Posted by TonyinCT

You have to remember that there are many factors involved in what the depth of any detector will be. A target at 18" would have to be of greater size than most coins to be detected. The size and style of your search coil , ground mineralization content , the size of the target as well as other factors will contribute to the better or worse depth that is actually realized.

I am thinking of a PI detector. If the searcher is willing to dig up every hit, I think 18" is reasonable for small metal with a PI. So the question becomes is the searcher willing to dig every hit.

I would think 2 detectors, 1 PI searcher with some colored golf tees and 1 searcher with a good discriminating detector would reduce the number of digs and still be able to get down deep.

Steve

[TonyinCT]

Even a PI is not going 18" on small items on land. There is way too much junk for one to be practical and I have yet to see any detector hit a dime size target at a real 18".

[mxtswinger]

Size of target aside, I agree with Pickles on the PI matter. If I am trying to find a corpse in a remote area with unknown soil mineralization I would be looking for any and all metal at the greatest depth. That says PI to me. My 2 pennies

[RedRockNv]

I would think a White's TM 808 would fill the bill as you are looking for voids in the ground which it can find and deep. Link to the manual http://www.whiteselectronics.com/man...ion_Manual.pdf
Check out the description of the Cave mode on page six. It can detecte the change of mineralization in the ground caused by a disturbance such as digging a hole. Just my thoughts. How else would you find a body. Fillings at more than 10 to 12 inches isn't very likely. Interesting idea you have wish I could help.

[Texaspast]

Another possibility is a good long probe. I know of one grave hunter who uses a 5' long 1/4" brass rod with a handle on one end and a point on the other. He can tell the difference in disturbed soil and undisturbed by feel, and with some practice you apparently can tell what you have hit (rock, tree root, metal, etc.)

[DJS]

I see Garrett makes a "CSI 250" which is basically an ace250 re-geared more for crime scene work



not that that would help in this case...