Trial Run #1 & #2 with new Sov XS-2pro

[Lineweed]

Having gotten my whole detecting set up ready for the first time, I couldn't wait for it anymore and decided to try it out one day right after I got it.

I went out with the mindset that of just learning my detector - despite having done much research over the past month, i've been busy with my own commitments and much information/tips regarding beach detecting has slipped through my mind.

Anyway here's the summary of both hunts:

TRIAL HUNT #1:

Arrived at location very early in the morning and started to change at the bathrooms. Since it was my first time assembling my detector I decided not to look to conspicuous and did it in the bathroom too. Biggest mistake. The mosquitoes and sandflies did a number on my legs by the time I assembled all the equipment onto myself. I will assemble the stuff on the beach next time

That said, I had planned to detect with my 15x12 SEF coil but made the mistake of putting epoxy on it the day before - although the package says it cures in 90 mins, I've read somewhere on a forum where a guy who has messed with epoxy all his life advised users that no matter what the package says, epoxy only cures fully after 24 hours, and that one should always mix the hardener and resin together a tad much longer than stated too. In my excitement I forgot and thus was left with a half sticky SEF coil.

Therefore I had no choice but to use the 15" WOT, which was a big mistake - I researched almost solely on SEF and the Tornado coils, and have no information on the WOT whatsoever - I had a very hard time pinpointing my finds! Anyone can advise on how the WOT works out?

I had a good time searching - my first find was a washer, and I even found a junk ring - till the clip on my finds bag broke. I've attached the hipmount bag to the strap on my finds pouch but it may have been too heavy, and I was really lucky not to have been in the water. From then on everything went downhill as I attached the hipmount bag to the shaft itself (did not bring the V clip for the ctrl box with me) and it became cumbersome.

The Sov dug really deep (~12 inches average) and my scoop was really small and short, so I had to use both hands to dig. Every target took almost 3-4 scoops to extract. Not only that, but due to the balance of the pull scoop, whenever I tried to shake the sand out, the scoop would upend and dump the sand on the ground - I had to detect and sift thru the sand in order to find the target. It was a rather bad experience, but at least I got to know first hand the importance of a good scoop

coil discipline wise, i thought i did pretty well, the WOT coil was practically being abused, half-hovering/dragged across the sand but I felt I didn't do justice covering the wet sand - yes i did walk in a zigzag V manner but felt I wasn't consistent enough and missed out quite a few spots. The WOT coil started going crazy near the end of the hunt, giving random falses even if i wasn't moving the detector and it was on auto sensitivity.

By the end of the hunt, due to the scoop, my hands had it pretty bad and I think I made my eczema on my hand worse. Next time I will bring a pair of gloves.



TRIAL HUNT #2:

After a nap, I decided to give it a go again - at night. This time I brought along a small keychain light, a pair of cheap laundry gloves, and the strap for the hipmount bag, which I slung across my shoulders. Was a 2 hours hunt but I felt it was even worse because I couldn't see what I was digging. The keychain light was seriously too bright and would have attracted too much attention from the nearby partygoers at the bars if I used it too much. The backmounted ctrl box kept swinging to my front, and along with it I got tangled up with the headphones wire and coil wire. It got me rather frustrated. Nevertheless I scored my first ring. Stainless steel but one must always start somewhere right? :P



Trial hunt 1: 3 hrs - 27 finds - average find time 6.7 mins (~$5 in coins, 1 fake ring)
Trial hunt 2: 2 hrs - 14 finds - average find time 8.6 mins ($0.50 in coins, 1 heavy charm @ upper right of picture, 1 stainless steel ring)



All in all I felt I got to feel out my detector and learn quite a bit of how it worked out on the beach. Although I did say "I went out with the mindset that of just learning my detector" I have to admit that I was pretty disappointed with myself for the myriad of mistakes I made since I felt I could have done a lot better, on my own part (and scoop wise) - the detector itself was excellent, but I have questions to ask regarding the iron mask and halo effect, which I will update on soon in another thread.

I feel at least the scoop was the biggest problem - it really slowed me down and having to bent down to retrieve finds made the hipmount bag swing from my back to my front, tangling me in the wires. And btw who said it only takes a second to refill your holes? every hole i dug, i spent close to 1 minute trying to kick all the sand back in and compressing it with my feet so that people won't step onto loose sand and fall, then running my coil over the hole area so that at least it looks more normal!



Mistakes:
1. Assembling detector in bug-infested area
2. Did not bring spares (did bring a spare battery, but no spare nut/bolt/washer/strap for hipmount)
3. Did not bring gloves, no waders, sunblock (morning), red headlight (night)
4. Not well versed with WOT coil (specifically pinpoint)
5. Not well versed with detector (specifically Sensitivity setting - it was on auto all the way, & also Iron mask - interaction with halo effect, masking of targets)
6. Was not low tide on both trial runs
7. Scoop was too small, short and very unbalanced. I need to get a new one...
8. System of retrieving finds is very bad - a lot of room for improvement, including, speed of pinpoint, scoop itself, and isolating target in scoop

I am really busy this month and will probably not head out to detect in a fortnight or so. May be good too since I should take the time to research on tips and the Sov, as well as seek out a new scoop. Does anyone have a good offer for a scoop? I've contacted Ruslan and was recommended the Krepish v.11 - had a look and it seems to look real good to me. Only issue i have would be the price when coupled with shipping.

Next hunt will probably be my full 4 hour maiden hunt with the Sov XS-2pro & an appropriate full-sized sand scoop!

[Crumble]

Best way to pinpoint with a DD that I have found, is to sweep side to side from one direction, and draw a line with your foot that corresponds to where the center line of the coil is when it beeps over the target, then do the same from 90 degrees, the spot where both lines intersect is exactly where the target is.

My machine is always assembled before I leave the house, but I have a large back seat that can fit it. I have my waders/other gear on by the time I leave the house also.

As for sensitivity, you generally want to turn it high enough to be just under where it becomes unstable. So put the coil on the ground, turn up sensitivity until it starts falsing/chattering, then lower it a tad to calm it down. Staying in auto tune loses a bit of depth on most machines.

For target retrieval, I dig a scoop, dump sand next to hole, scan hole, if target is still in hole, I dig another, when target is out of the hole, I spread out the last dumped sand pile with my foot, scan it with the coil starting from the bottom and going up, listening for a beep. When you hear the beep, bring the coil back until you get no beep, then sweep forward slowly until you get a beep, and its right under the tip of the coil.

The pinpointing with the tip of coil only works well on surface/shallow targets, so for deep targets, use the X technique I explained in the first paragraph.

Looks like you're off to a good start.

[borntofli]

Dont skimp on a scoop.... The stavr is the best and will last forever..... I'm on my third scoop, should have just bought the best one right from the start....

Get your sov out of auto sens... Start w/ it about 12:00 and if no falsing slowly raise it....Signals will sound better and get much more depth....

I have the wot also and pinpointing just takes practice. I usually don't x with it, I just wave it side to side, moving coil cforwarcd till it stopsc ancd back till it stops and its always in the scoop width center stripe area...Bury a coin a couple inches and practice....

[PI JOE]

Originally Posted by Lineweed

Does anyone have a good offer for a scoop? I've contacted Ruslan and was recommended the Krepish v.11 - had a look and it seems to look real good to me. Only issue i have would be the price when coupled with shipping.

Next hunt will probably be my full 4 hour maiden hunt with the Sov XS-2pro & an appropriate full-sized sand scoop!

Very nice report. Give Chuck a call at Sunspot. g/l

http://www.gold-scoop.com/thestealth.html

[Cfmct]

Did you have fun? That's what its all about plus the thrill of the discovery..

[Lineweed]

Originally Posted by Cfmct-PI

Did you have fun? That's what its all about plus the thrill of the discovery..

If I am to be courteous I would say yea I did, but in all honesty I can't say I thoroughly enjoyed it. The main factors detracting from my enjoyment was the sun beating down (its really hot and humid here), serious physical exertion using the scoop (which I think I really have to replace) and lack of visibility at night.

People staring was probably a slight annoyance but I guess I have to get used to it sooner or later. The problem will come in when people start to bug me as to what I'm doing, why I do this, do I have a job, what is the most valuable thing I've found, is it lucrative and so on... How do you guys deal with it? Not that I wish to be unfriendly but I do have to keep the welfare of exisiting detectorists in the area in mind *if you know what i mean*

My worst fear is to look up and see a congregation around me, with phone cameras and what not

For now I will probably hunt either in the early morning or night, when it isn't too humid and the beaches are fairly deserted. Need to get that red lamp and scoop soon - I'm sure I will enjoy it very much once digging up targets isn't such a chore!

Sorry if I offended anyone by saying my opinions and that I didn't exactly 100% enjoy the hunts, I'm just being blatantly honest here

[biliff1]

Originally Posted by Aka Nameless

Best way to pinpoint with a DD that I have found, is to sweep side to side from one direction, and draw a line with your foot that corresponds to where the center line of the coil is when it beeps over the target, then do the same from 90 degrees, the spot where both lines intersect is exactly where the target is.

My machine is always assembled before I leave the house, but I have a large back seat that can fit it. I have my waders/other gear on by the time I leave the house also.

As for sensitivity, you generally want to turn it high enough to be just under where it becomes unstable. So put the coil on the ground, turn up sensitivity until it starts falsing/chattering, then lower it a tad to calm it down. Staying in auto tune loses a bit of depth on most machines.

For target retrieval, I dig a scoop, dump sand next to hole, scan hole, if target is still in hole, I dig another, when target is out of the hole, I spread out the last dumped sand pile with my foot, scan it with the coil starting from the bottom and going up, listening for a beep. When you hear the beep, bring the coil back until you get no beep, then sweep forward slowly until you get a beep, and its right under the tip of the coil.

The pinpointing with the tip of coil only works well on surface/shallow targets, so for deep targets, use the X technique I explained in the first paragraph.

Looks like you're off to a good start.

I have a Sov GT, which I believe, is similar. You answered a couple of questions about pinpointing that have had me stumped for a while. Like, pinpointing off the toe is good for surface or shallow targets and deeper targets require the "X" method. I guess it's because of the signal curve of the coil. I haven't run across any falsing yet, but I will keep the sensitivity trick in mind for when it happens. Good info! Thanks and HH!

[biliff1]

Originally Posted by Cfmct-PI

Did you have fun? That's what its all about plus the thrill of the discovery..

Right, you are! When it gets too frustrating, it defeats the purpose of a hobby!

[Lineweed]

Originally Posted by Aka Nameless

Best way to pinpoint with a DD that I have found, is to sweep side to side from one direction, and draw a line with your foot that corresponds to where the center line of the coil is when it beeps over the target, then do the same from 90 degrees, the spot where both lines intersect is exactly where the target is.

funny you stated this method, its the same i did after a while, since it seemed to me the most logical way of doing it... Just to confirm, both WOT and SEF are DD coils right?

My machine is always assembled before I leave the house, but I have a large back seat that can fit it. I have my waders/other gear on by the time I leave the house also.

I have to keep everything disassembled and compact because I take the public transport - getting stopped because of a suspicious alien device won't do anyone good i keep them all in a guitar case, and its already suspicious enough, deformed and floppy as it is

As for sensitivity, you generally want to turn it high enough to be just under where it becomes unstable. So put the coil on the ground, turn up sensitivity until it starts falsing/chattering, then lower it a tad to calm it down. Staying in auto tune loses a bit of depth on most machines

that is interesting... i didn't know auto tune loses depth. However I'm afraid that I will lose out when sensitivity is turned down too much - is that a cause for concern? I say this because there have been a couple of times when I tried it, but after 5-10 mins the stable threshold starts to false in spurts by itself even if the detector is still.

Another situation was towards the end of Trial #1, when my WOT started falsing. Even when I turned the sensitivity to the minimum, it still falsed erratically. ummm... why? Could it have something to do with stray EMF waves? I heard all Sovs are rather susceptible to it due to BBS. either that or the defect the previous owner says has finally begun to show up.

[chrispua]

Hey bro, glad to see your post on your maiden hunt with your sovereign XS pro! You are being too hard on yourself. I would say, for your first hunt, you did pretty all right, at least you found a decent looking ring( can you post a close up of the ring?) and more then $5. Stop beating yourself up, give yourself a pat on the back instead. Btw, that sand scoop served me pretty well for 5 hunts before it broke into two. I think you should improve your target retrieval technique from Nameless, I do the same for my target retrieval and it works pretty well.

As for getting a better scoop, I think you should try the Starv scoop, I almost ordered one, but changed my mind in the last minute and got myself a stealth scoop form Sunspot instead. It's a very well built scoop, but kind of heavy relative to the starv scoop.

Also, you might want to join me for early morning hunt, that way, you get the whole beach to yourself with nobody bothering you at all.

Cheers and let's meet up when my Sovereign XS Pro arrives next week.

[Lineweed]

thanks chris, yea perhaps i just expected too much of myself the first time round. The scoop actually does quite well underwater since you get more leverage than trying to push it in, which i think is what you wanted right? on the wet sand it becomes harder and I needed 2 hands to pull it though.

and yea i did hunt early, starting at approx 6.30am.

btw do you guys see the 2 large bolts in the pictures? The first gave a low tone that I believe would have been similar to gold (not that I've heard a real one yet), and the second was more complicated. It chattered for a couple of swings, then nulled, then chattered, with the pattern repeating itself. I dug it just to be sure. What I'm saying is that I really love the iron mask, but it has its pros and cons and isn't foolproof (although if you noticed, not a single "small" iron target was dug) as demonstrated here. These targets have probably been buried for so long they produced a halo effect that fooled the mask. Just my 2 cents.

[Cfmct]

Originally Posted by Lineweed

thanks chris, yea perhaps i just expected too much of myself the first time round. The scoop actually does quite well underwater since you get more leverage than trying to push it in, which i think is what you wanted right? on the wet sand it becomes harder and I needed 2 hands to pull it though.

and yea i did hunt early, starting at approx 6.30am.

btw do you guys see the 2 large bolts in the pictures? The first gave a low tone that I believe would have been similar to gold (not that I've heard a real one yet), and the second was more complicated. It chattered for a couple of swings, then nulled, then chattered, with the pattern repeating itself. I dug it just to be sure. What I'm saying is that I really love the iron mask, but it has its pros and cons and isn't foolproof (although if you noticed, not a single "small" iron target was dug) as demonstrated here. These targets have probably been buried for so long they produced a halo effect that fooled the mask. Just my 2 cents.

Our hobby is expensive... we pay a lot of money for our top of the line detectors.. there is a reason why we also buy the best scoops we can afford... we don't go cheap... you will do ok

[Crumble]

Originally Posted by Lineweed

funny you stated this method, its the same i did after a while, since it seemed to me the most logical way of doing it... Just to confirm, both WOT and SEF are DD coils right?



I have to keep everything disassembled and compact because I take the public transport - getting stopped because of a suspicious alien device won't do anyone good i keep them all in a guitar case, and its already suspicious enough, deformed and floppy as it is



that is interesting... i didn't know auto tune loses depth. However I'm afraid that I will lose out when sensitivity is turned down too much - is that a cause for concern? I say this because there have been a couple of times when I tried it, but after 5-10 mins the stable threshold starts to false in spurts by itself even if the detector is still.

Another situation was towards the end of Trial #1, when my WOT started falsing. Even when I turned the sensitivity to the minimum, it still falsed erratically. ummm... why? Could it have something to do with stray EMF waves? I heard all Sovs are rather susceptible to it due to BBS. either that or the defect the previous owner says has finally begun to show up.

Yeah, pretty much any coil with a line down the center like that, is a DD coil. Inside the coil is two elliptical shaped coils side by side, overlapping in the center, one transmitting, the other receiving, the hot spot is the line down the center where they overlap (shortest distance from the center of both coils).

After looking at a picture of the controls of the XS 2 Pro, it looks like turning the sensitivity all the way clockwise is the auto tune mode (where it says "beach")? Yeah probably best to just leave it there. It should adjust the sensitivity as ground conditions change.

Do you hunt in all metal or disc mode?

[Lineweed]

Originally Posted by Aka Nameless

After looking at a picture of the controls of the XS 2 Pro, it looks like turning the sensitivity all the way clockwise is the auto tune mode (where it says "beach")? Yeah probably best to just leave it there. It should adjust the sensitivity as ground conditions change.

Do you hunt in all metal or disc mode?

uhh no, i've no idea where you saw that photo but the controls on the XS-2pro is the same as the GT, only without the on/off iron mask and triple switch thingy.

auto tune mode is when the sensitivity knob is turned all the way ANTI-clockwise in other words, the same as the OFF position at the Volume knob, akin to all other Sov models. In no way do I see a "beach" label on the controls...

I hunt in disc mode, Chris wasn't lying when he said his PI beeps every 2-3 steps, the iron infestation is really that bad. In my case, since I use a 15x12 SEF, I get a null every other swing on average - thus my concern on the nature of the iron mask - whether it will detect targets masked by iron, or null totally.

I haven't really use the all metal mode yet, but i heard many beach pros use this exclusively? its really good to pinpoint though, but i can't be damned to keep flicking the switch every time there's a target. the sef pinpoints well by itself alr.

[chrispua]

After taking a look at your finds again, I must say, the Sovereign did it's job discriminating the iron extremely well. I've counted your trash and finds, the trash to find ratio is 21:20, that's amazing! my is around 7:1 using the Surf PI DF.

I'm a bit surprised that it did not reject the 2 bolts, I know how big they are because I've dug many of them. If the Sov doesn't discriminate them, then be prepared to dig more of them, there are plenty out there where we hunt.

I'll probably head out next Sat in the morning, low tide is at 0611, care to join me?

[Lineweed]

Originally Posted by chrispua

After taking a look at your finds again, I must say, the Sovereign did it's job discriminating the iron extremely well. I've counted your trash and finds, the trash to find ratio is 21:20, that's amazing! my is around 7:1 using the Surf PI DF.

I'm a bit surprised that it did not reject the 2 bolts, I know how big they are because I've dug many of them. If the Sov doesn't discriminate them, then be prepared to dig more of them, there are plenty out there where we hunt.

I'll probably head out next Sat in the morning, low tide is at 0611, care to join me?

even with the almighty iron mask i'm sure with experience, i should be able to disc out even more trash. The first bolt was not disc out, that was true, but the 2nd was a very choppy signal. I took a gamble thinking it might be a deep ring - turned out it wasn't.

All in all I'm guessing its iron mask vs. halo effect - all the trash has been in the sand for a long time and has rusted out - that's why i'm even getting signals from the bottlecaps. the tabs can't be helped since they are close to gold on the freq. I typically find them where the waves wash in.

Not that bugged about those big bolts since they are pretty shallow and easy to find in the scoop, but the badly rusted ones aren't very nice to pick up and pocket i must say.

i'll pm you regarding the next hunt

[Crumble]

Originally Posted by Lineweed

uhh no, i've no idea where you saw that photo but the controls on the XS-2pro is the same as the GT, only without the on/off iron mask and triple switch thingy.

auto tune mode is when the sensitivity knob is turned all the way ANTI-clockwise in other words, the same as the OFF position at the Volume knob, akin to all other Sov models. In no way do I see a "beach" label on the controls...

I hunt in disc mode, Chris wasn't lying when he said his PI beeps every 2-3 steps, the iron infestation is really that bad. In my case, since I use a 15x12 SEF, I get a null every other swing on average - thus my concern on the nature of the iron mask - whether it will detect targets masked by iron, or null totally.

I haven't really use the all metal mode yet, but i heard many beach pros use this exclusively? its really good to pinpoint though, but i can't be damned to keep flicking the switch every time there's a target. the sef pinpoints well by itself alr.

Oh, I was looking at the picture below, I guess the 2a is different.

[zeemang]

You hit a ring on both hunts, all be it a junker, but rings none the less, well done...
The accessories beach hunters need are few, it's best to buy the best. If you go cheap it's not only going to break and frustrate you but you'll end up going cheap multiple times and still not have good gear...
I like my Stavr scoop alot, the treasure king finds bag is well worth the price of admission, http://newenglanddetectors.co/index....roducts_id=153
The last thing that i use alot is a baseball hot with built in LED lights in the brim, just click it on when in use and click it off when you don't want extra attention. Not clunky like a headlamp of a flashlight, always there when you need it...
HH!

[GoBanana]

I think you did great, I only got 11 cents today and a ton of trash, but it was a blast.

[Franz]

Originally Posted by Lineweed

btw do you guys see the 2 large bolts in the pictures? The first gave a low tone that I believe would have been similar to gold (not that I've heard a real one yet), and the second was more complicated. It chattered for a couple of swings, then nulled, then chattered, with the pattern repeating itself. I dug it just to be sure. What I'm saying is that I really love the iron mask, but it has its pros and cons and isn't foolproof (although if you noticed, not a single "small" iron target was dug) as demonstrated here. These targets have probably been buried for so long they produced a halo effect that fooled the mask. Just my 2 cents.

I'm still learning my GT, but this is what I've found so far. Larger iron targets can, for lack of a better term, "overpower" the iron mask feature sometimes. After some time with your sovereign, your ears will recognise when this is the situation. Rusty bottle caps will often give a chattery blip null too. Your first bolt that gave a low tone I'm not sure about though. Was it deep? If so, a second swing with the coil after removing some sand may have given a null response. I dig a lot of tone-null signals just on the chance it could be something keeper next to a piece of iron.

Your finds look very good for a first hunt too! Like everyone has said, don't skimp on the scoop. That frustrated me for a long time; even left a few targets behind because of it.