Wisconsin Proposal to change the current DNR rules on MD'ing

[Kenosha Kid]

On April 11, 2011 at 7:00 PM in every county in Wisconsin, the DNR (Dept. of Natural Resources) will be holding their Spring meetings.

While most of the referendum deals with hunting and fishing, one question involves metal detecting:

This is the question listed under PUBLIC & PRIVATE LAND USE STUDY COMMITTEE ADVISORY QUESTIONS:

Question 74- Metal Detecting on State Lands (# 700110): It is currently not legal to use metal detectors on state owned lands unless authorized for the purpose of retrieving personal property. The current rule was enacted over concerns about people using metal detectors to locate artifacts and possibly taking the artifacts or destroying the site so that it could not be recorded and preserved properly to reconstruct historical events. Under this suggested permitting system, participants would be required to have some type of educational instruction or certification before being issued a permit. Persons would not be allowed to disturb or retrieve historical artifacts and doing so would result in the loss of the permit to use a metal detector on state owned lands.

Do you support the DNR establishing a permit system whereby participants may purchase an annual metal detecting permit for the sum of $20 and be allowed to operate metal detectors on all state owned or managed property and properties purchased with Stewardship money?

74. YES_______ NO______

The only problem I have with this is, "Persons would not be allowed to disturb or retrieve historical artifacts and doing so would result in the loss of the permit to use a metal detector on state owned lands."

Uh, how do you know the object is considered a "historical artifact" without disturbing or retrieving it beforehand??? I mean, as soon as you've removed the dirt to see what it is ... you've disturbed the object and, according to this, there goes your permit.

[Coin_Master]

So in other words, just let the historical object rot in the ground??

[rogue]

Finders keepers I say. Some one left it too be found.

[daddydigger]

I guess I don't consider a coin to be a historical artifact! Otherwise, coin shops would be called museums!!!

[Bubba707]

It's typical DNR. Their budget is going to be cut some and this is just a way to get some back by a round about method. In the end it will also be used to levy big fines on individuals for "disturbing historical artifacts". Fines the DNR will also add to their kitty. A sneaky way to charge the public without giving them anything.

[Mike1961]

Originally Posted by Bubba707

It's typical DNR. Their budget is going to be cut some and this is just a way to get some back by a round about method. In the end it will also be used to levy big fines on individuals for "disturbing historical artifacts". Fines the DNR will also add to their kitty. A sneaky way to charge the public without giving them anything.

I agree, another tax. Sooner or later every state, county, and city will get around to the same thing.

[Dustyloins]

Welcome to Deficit Spending!!!!!

Dusty

[AlinMN]

I would assume that the issue of what is and isn't a historical relic would have to be covered in the educational class to get a permit. Seems to me this would cost the state a lot more than they would get in permit fees.

For example when you get your permit and then you are out detecting you uncover one of their so called "historical relics" so you probably would be required to stop retrieving the item and call the dnr who would come out and put yellow tape all around the scene until they could get the archeologists out to make a dig site out of the area costing the state tens of thousands of dollars only to determine what was found was just an old buckle from some poor trappers boot lost 100 years ago!

Brilliant how the government works isn't it........Of course if the plan is to create more high paid archeologist jobs in Wisconsin it might just work!
But maybe government archeologist jobs in Wisconsin might only pay minimum wage now?????

[alumaman]

Originally Posted by Bubba707

It's typical DNR. Their budget is going to be cut some and this is just a way to get some back by a round about method. In the end it will also be used to levy big fines on individuals for "disturbing historical artifacts". Fines the DNR will also add to their kitty. A sneaky way to charge the public without giving them anything.

Its a shame, to many things that may start out as an honest concern somehow end up being about the money.

[Sonny b]

Originally Posted by daddydigger

I guess I don't consider a coin to be a historical artifact! Otherwise, coin shops would be called museums!!!

Good point!

[fracturedtundra]

This will open up an unbelievable amount of land that is currently unavailable to MD. For twenty bucks, I figure it's worth it. Just my 2 cents.

[Bubba707]

Twenty bucks PLUS the "education" and certification. Who does that do you suppose? How much will THAT cost and who gets the money?

[photog]

Originally Posted by fracturedtundra

This will open up an unbelievable amount of land that is currently unavailable to MD. For twenty bucks, I figure it's worth it. Just my 2 cents.

paying $20.00 ?, this week, next week 40, the week after 60, just like hunting & fishing licenses, when does it stop? at the beginning, just say no

[Bubba707]

This is nothing more than an attempted money grab. The permit fee is just the beginning. As has been pointed out that fee will just go up and up until it's unreasonable. The part that I'm wondering about is that training. Who will give it and how much will that cost? What will they consider an historical artifact and how are you supposed to know unless you disturb it in the first place? While the Federal laws specifically exempt old coins this does not limit the state to exempting coins from the artifact regulations.The bottom line is this smells like just another money grab by the DNR.

[Kenosha Kid]

Originally Posted by Bubba707

The part that I'm wondering about is that training. Who will give it and how much will that cost?

It doesn't say. It only states, "participants would be required to have some type of educational instruction or certification before being issued a permit."

It could be as simple as just showing them your proficiency with your detector, how you dig, etc. -or- knowing how gov't bureaucracy works ... sit in some classroom for xx number of hours, watch an outdated film (probably about some WWII minesweeper) and taught by someone who, a) is totally against the proposal and b) never held/used a metal detector before.

Originally Posted by Bubba707

What will they consider an historical artifact and how are you supposed to know unless you disturb it in the first place?

That is exactly the concern I stated (above). By the time you find out it's a 'historic artifact', you've already 'disturbed' it and there goes your permit! Thanks for playing and your consolation prize is a ban from all state parks!

We do get and opportunity to ask questions at the meetings. It's limited to a whole 3 minutes, per person and "If comments become repetitive the hearing officer may limit comments to issues not previously presented." There are meetings in all 72 counties that night, each with its own hearing officer and a (possible) maximum of 72 different interpretations for any given question, no matter for what issue/agenda.

I'm also surprised that the proposal mentions no "out of state" permit fees. I know this state is big on them; not sure about other states.

[PuddleJumper]

Here is a link to the questionnaire which has a list of the locations that the meetings will be held.
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/congre...naireFINAL.pdf
Here is a separate pdf with just the locations of the meetings.
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/congre...1Locations.pdf

[brokenhunter]

I would ask pertinent questions, as to who and how we are going to get trained? What is classified as a historical item? (The US is new really) What items of importance are classified as historical? Is there items that are really of significance to the archaeological advancement in this area? What does one do if recovering an item and realizing it falls in the categories from above do I as the person finding such item do to save my permit. What happens if I in recovering a coin find an item classified as historical do to save my permit?

Have them spell it out in the meetings or try to get them to. Let them know that if they open this up you as the person possibly purchasing the permit need answers and real guidelines, not a $20 fee with the final word up to the officer that shows up with no clue.

[Milhaus]

Since metal detecting is completely banned in all state parks this sounds good? There's nothing wrong with a permit system if it means removing a complete ban. By historic artifacts they need to be more specific. Coins should be excluded altogether like under ARPA. When they say artifacts they have to specify that they mean things like tools that are the pinnacle of copper age technology (like WI Native's technology), or bear religious markings, or tribal or clan markings.
They also need to specify that if you find something that is of historic significance that you have to do the best job that you can of disturbing it no further so the context is preserved.
We need to be free to inform the authorities if we find something without fear.

My hope is that if WI leads the way maybe my state can be persuaded to follow suit.

Take a page out of pocketspill's book and stay positive and remember that you are selling yourself and the MD community as stewards of the land we use. Focus on what detectorists can do for Wisconsin.

[blev]

inch by inch the gov. is taking more and more. our founding fathers would be amazed and horrified at what our gov. has become. all in the name of protecting us. we are born into slavery to this gov. and we die in slavery. HH blev

[Plunder_monkey]

I'm in Wisconsin and I guess I would rather pay a fee than not being able to detect public land at all.